Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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Niki7

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#3,143
#3,143
well this could go on all night with one person trying to change what is said and the other defending what he said

I don't see the point when someone tries to change what is said as some kind of defence because the verse does not line up with Calvinistic beliefs
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#3,145
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#3,145
Niki7 said:
Seems God did exactly that. AND hardened their hearts too.

7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect* obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8 as it is written,

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,

eyes that would not see

and ears that would not hear,

down to this very day.”

9 And David says,

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,

a stumbling block and a retribution for them;

10 let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see,

and bend their backs forever.”

Gentiles Grafted In

11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass usalvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion2 mean!


* The elect meaning those who have come to faith in Christ. Paul refers to both Jews and Gentiles...ALL who accept Christ as all are free to come to Christ and believe
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I don't deny God has done that. I just don't believe they are alone in being spiritually blind and deaf. And I believe being dead in trespasses and sins means more than to be without God.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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#3,146
Jan 24, 2024
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#3,146
Niki7 said:
well this could go on all night with one person trying to change what is said and the other defending what he said

I don't see the point when someone tries to change what is said as some kind of defence because the verse does not line up with Calvinistic beliefs
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Yeah, we are on the 3rd round of the same question asked but just a bit differently each new time.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#3,147
FollowerofShiloh said:
You don't have to mention Free Will because your questions point towards your disbelief of it how I am claiming it can be used.
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I'm asking questions to understand why you believe as you do. You assume the rest.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#3,148
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#3,148
Niki7 said:
well this could go on all night with one person trying to change what is said and the other defending what he said

I don't see the point when someone tries to change what is said as some kind of defence because the verse does not line up with Calvinistic beliefs
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You assume much too. My motivation is to understand why people believe as they do. I haven't disparaged anyone in anyway.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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#3,149
Cameron143 said:
I'm asking questions to understand why you believe as you do. You assume the rest.
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As a Jew brought up in Synagogue to learn Torah, Scriptures, and Talmud, I know the meaning of Free Will that is mentioned 17 times. I know God gives Free Will in the matters when choosing to accept/reject God.

22 And Joshua said unto the people: 'Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve Him.--And they said: 'We are witnesses.'--
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#3,150
If faith comes by hearing, and someone has heard, doesn't this imply they have faith? And if someone has faith, would their response be stopping their ears? These sound like reasonable questions to me.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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#3,151
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#3,151
Cameron143 said:
If faith comes by hearing, and someone has heard, doesn't this imply they have faith? And if someone has faith, would their response be stopping their ears? These sound like reasonable questions to me.
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The Bible gives answers and I have provided those verses to you, so NO, you reject the Word of God.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#3,152
FollowerofShiloh said:
As a Jew brought up in Synagogue to learn Torah, Scriptures, and Talmud, I know the meaning of Free Will that is mentioned 17 times. I know God gives Free Will in the matters when choosing to accept/reject God.

22 And Joshua said unto the people: 'Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve Him.--And they said: 'We are witnesses.'--
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That choosing was about who to serve. Those verses aren't even remotely referring to salvation.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

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#3,153
Dec 18, 2023
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#3,153
Cameron143 said:
If faith comes by hearing, and someone has heard, doesn't this imply they have faith? And if someone has faith, would their response be stopping their ears? These sound like reasonable questions to me.
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all people are born with the truth in them and are able to know right and wrong,

Is this any different to faith, because faith also knows right and wrong
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

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#3,154
Dec 18, 2023
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#3,154
FollowerofShiloh said:
As a Jew brought up in Synagogue to learn Torah, Scriptures, and Talmud, I know the meaning of Free Will that is mentioned 17 times. I know God gives Free Will in the matters when choosing to accept/reject God.

22 And Joshua said unto the people: 'Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve Him.--And they said: 'We are witnesses.'--
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No such thing as human free will sorry.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#3,155
FollowerofShiloh said:
The Bible gives answers and I have provided those verses to you, so NO, you reject the Word of God.
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You get ugly when someone doesn't accept what you say. So far you have played the Jewish card,infer I don't believe Jesus, and now say I reject the word of God. You should learn what it is to love or you will only clang like a cymbal.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#3,156
Thunderrr-mental said:
all people are born with the truth in them and are able to know right and wrong,

Is this any different to faith, because faith also knows right and wrong
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I agree people know right and wrong because God has placed eternity in their hearts. But the Bible says we come forth speaking lies so not so sure about truth.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

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#3,157
Dec 18, 2023
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#3,157
Cameron143 said:
I agree people know right and wrong because God has placed eternity in their hearts. But the Bible says we come forth speaking lies so not so sure about truth.
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a child can know to tell the truth as soon as they learn to speak.
 
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