Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.
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Anyone can quote words of the bible. it does not mean they support them
I supported the bible also. yet you rejected what I wrote
lol. Again Your puffing yourself up. and Mocking God.
You have your pet verses, yet the contradict the verses myself and other have showed.
You can;t have it both ways..
I supported the bible also. yet you rejected what I wrote
lol. Again Your puffing yourself up. and Mocking God.
You have your pet verses, yet the contradict the verses myself and other have showed.
You can;t have it both ways..
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No, but thank you for your reply, CS1. I believe that everyone who has ever been or will ever be saved become so in exactly the same manner. So, regarding salvation, no distinction is made between Jew and Gentile - all are saved only because God had chosen them individually to such but not because of lineage, and having been so chosen, by that alone, are they of Abraham's seed by promise - by God's promise to Abraham for such, but not because of anything within their power to do. And God in proving Himself faithful to that promise, brought forth salvation - and if by promise, then it is not possible that it can be by any of our actions.
[Gal 3:28-29 KJV]
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Here is the verse again for our reference. Notice that it doesn't say "you are not of my sheep because you believe not", but that
"you believe not because you are not of my sheep. IOW, in order to truly believe, one must be, and can only be, of His sheep, otherwise, no one can truly believe. This is true for Jew and Gentile alike.
[Jhn 10:26 KJV] 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
I do not believe the message itself saves, I believe that it is God who saves (which is why He has the title of Saviour) and from that the message resonates. I believe that salvation must come first and from that, everything else that pertains to acquiring the attributes of salvation, follows.
Sorry CS1, I'm not sure that I entirely follow all of the above- my fault.
No, I do not believe that anyone not of His sheep can become saved. It is indeed a terrifying proposition, but true
none the less - and the thought of it scares me as much as anyone but my hope is in Christ alone, and not in myself. We are all equal sinners in His eyes, with no one being one iota better than the rest - no one deserving salvation but judgment and no one can make of ourselves other than that. Therefore, the difference can only be in God's mercy and grace and to whom He chose to bestow it upon and justifies by Christ - it comes down to it being solely by Him alone. Left on to own means, we are all worthless sinners.
Regarding your last question, I'm sure you are familiar with these verses but I will repost anyway. Notice that all the Father gives to
Christ, they, and they alone, must be raised on the last day. There is no provision stated within those verses for man to provide any part of it. The transaction (so to speak) is solely between the Father and Christ. Those chosen are but the beneficiaries of it.
[Jhn 6:39, 44, 65-66 KJV]
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. ...
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. ...
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
[Gal 3:28-29 KJV]
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Here is the verse again for our reference. Notice that it doesn't say "you are not of my sheep because you believe not", but that
"you believe not because you are not of my sheep. IOW, in order to truly believe, one must be, and can only be, of His sheep, otherwise, no one can truly believe. This is true for Jew and Gentile alike.
[Jhn 10:26 KJV] 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
I do not believe the message itself saves, I believe that it is God who saves (which is why He has the title of Saviour) and from that the message resonates. I believe that salvation must come first and from that, everything else that pertains to acquiring the attributes of salvation, follows.
Sorry CS1, I'm not sure that I entirely follow all of the above- my fault.
No, I do not believe that anyone not of His sheep can become saved. It is indeed a terrifying proposition, but true
none the less - and the thought of it scares me as much as anyone but my hope is in Christ alone, and not in myself. We are all equal sinners in His eyes, with no one being one iota better than the rest - no one deserving salvation but judgment and no one can make of ourselves other than that. Therefore, the difference can only be in God's mercy and grace and to whom He chose to bestow it upon and justifies by Christ - it comes down to it being solely by Him alone. Left on to own means, we are all worthless sinners.
Regarding your last question, I'm sure you are familiar with these verses but I will repost anyway. Notice that all the Father gives to
Christ, they, and they alone, must be raised on the last day. There is no provision stated within those verses for man to provide any part of it. The transaction (so to speak) is solely between the Father and Christ. Those chosen are but the beneficiaries of it.
[Jhn 6:39, 44, 65-66 KJV]
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. ...
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. ...
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Ok
The point of John 10 that I am drawing similarities to is 1. They were not His sheep, as He said because they did not accept him as the Messiah. He came unto HIS own, but they did not receive him.
it seems the John 10 text was used to suggest a type of election because Jesus said "you believe not because you are not of my sheep." Could not Jesus enable them to believe at a later time or was that statement a constant condition they could never receive Salvation? I do not believe the text is saying that yet it is used by some Calvinists as supporting text for Election.
The point of John 10 that I am drawing similarities to is 1. They were not His sheep, as He said because they did not accept him as the Messiah. He came unto HIS own, but they did not receive him.
it seems the John 10 text was used to suggest a type of election because Jesus said "you believe not because you are not of my sheep." Could not Jesus enable them to believe at a later time or was that statement a constant condition they could never receive Salvation? I do not believe the text is saying that yet it is used by some Calvinists as supporting text for Election.
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Here's your problem, you have God doing both His and Satans job. He creates sinners, and leaves them in sin because that's what He likes to do. How can you hate a child before they are born? There is no where in the Bible that says God hated a person before they were born.
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
And of some have compassion, making a difference:And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”
Here is how a person can know they are in a cult, they talk of judgement, not love. They ignore the mercy of God, and why not, if you believe you are elect and elite in some way. The Word, right above where I posted, says God loves sinners, that He died for them and wishes none would perish. I see you say you were saved in 2021, in fact you were indoctrinated. God is a God of love, of mercy. The Bible says He is a good Father. Whoever indoctrinated you I do not know. But you are yet a babe in Christ with much to learn about who God really is.
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But neither of you do know. Both of you delight in the loss of sinners and believe that's what God wants you to do. I have proven just now with Scripture that you're wrong. God loves the sinner and the Word says He is married to the back-slider. Jesus picked men to take His message to the nations. To spread the GOOD NEWS!! God hates sin, but He loves the sinner. And He calls them to come to Him till their last breath. God's mercy is beyond our understanding. Yes. There will be a day when those who don't turn from sin will be punished. Your job is to reach out to the lost, tell them the Good News that Jesus saves. You have no concept of that because you believe you're one of few that God chose to go to heaven. So why would you care about the lost? It spiritual pride and selfishness.
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