Baptism
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My comment was regarding your post #108.
Those in the OT were required to believe in the coming Messiah and enter that covenant through circumcision.
Acts 2:38 established the requirements for those living in the New Testament. Jesus actually prophesied this in Luke 24:47. And no where in scripture do we see man's obligation to it cease. In fact, Paul was still preaching the same message some 20+ years after the initial command was given. (Acts 19)
Those in the OT were required to believe in the coming Messiah and enter that covenant through circumcision.
Acts 2:38 established the requirements for those living in the New Testament. Jesus actually prophesied this in Luke 24:47. And no where in scripture do we see man's obligation to it cease. In fact, Paul was still preaching the same message some 20+ years after the initial command was given. (Acts 19)
John was the witness prophecied in the ot that would precede the messiah like all the prophets witnesses Christ and the gospel
“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.”
Malachi 3:1
“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
Mark 1:1-2, 4-5
“and said unto them, Thus it is written, ( n the ot ) and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
Luke 24:46-48 KJV
“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
Acts 2:37-39 KJV
Its never going to change your right
“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
Acts 8:35-39 KJV
at what point did it change brother since it’s the same ? Is it different now ?
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:44-48 KJV
i couldn’t agree more salvation hasn’t changed and it’s not going to it’s reliable and sure forever the same
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.”
Malachi 3:1
“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
Mark 1:1-2, 4-5
“and said unto them, Thus it is written, ( n the ot ) and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
Luke 24:46-48 KJV
“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
Acts 2:37-39 KJV
Its never going to change your right
“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
Acts 8:35-39 KJV
at what point did it change brother since it’s the same ? Is it different now ?
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:44-48 KJV
i couldn’t agree more salvation hasn’t changed and it’s not going to it’s reliable and sure forever the same
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
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Circumcision was an outward sign. It didn't save anyone. It pointed to the inward reality...the circumcision of the heart. Baptism is the NT sign that points to our being placed into Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection.
You err in thinking that physical activity on our part produces spiritual reality. The opposite is true. Spiritual activity on God's part produces physical activity on our part.
You, when you share Acts 2:38 you neglect to pair it with the previous verse. In verse 37 and prior, God sends a preacher, His word is preached, hearing is given, hearts are pricked, and wills are affected. It is to those so affected that the commands in verse 38 are given.
You err in thinking that physical activity on our part produces spiritual reality. The opposite is true. Spiritual activity on God's part produces physical activity on our part.
You, when you share Acts 2:38 you neglect to pair it with the previous verse. In verse 37 and prior, God sends a preacher, His word is preached, hearing is given, hearts are pricked, and wills are affected. It is to those so affected that the commands in verse 38 are given.
If I avoided churches that I disagreed with on a point of doctrine, I'd stay home. I think it is OK to agree to disagree. Personally, I don't believe that sprinkling a baby causes it to be born again. The pastor (his word) of the nearby Anglican church believes sprinkling does cause the infant to be born again. We agree on way more than what we disagree about. He loves Jesus and he preaches a sound word. He also welcomed my wife and I when most others around here ignored us. So we go there.
This one went ever which way. Based on just what you asked there is no best way only way true way. Some will say ya have to be dunked others say you don't. Go to your Church tell them you want to be baptized. Or in some lake, river have at it.
"And Peter said to them, “Repent [change your old way of thinking, turn from your sinful ways, accept and follow Jesus as the Messiah] and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus Christ because of the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
"And Peter said to them, “Repent [change your old way of thinking, turn from your sinful ways, accept and follow Jesus as the Messiah] and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus Christ because of the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
I believe you, though I did take it that way but I did as it were out of character of you. But I really should rather think better of others and be wrong than to think worse and be right.
In attempt to clear up the possible confusion, you were speaking specifically to water, regarding your comment which form did not matter (I assume implying as long as water is present) while I was speaking specifically to the living water that Jesus spoke of in John 7, as being the only form of water (though this form cannot actually be witnessed) that actually does matter.
Living Water
37On the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood up and called out in a loud voice, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. 38Whoever believes in Me, as the Scripture has said: ‘Streams of living water will flow from within him.’ ” 39He was speaking about the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were later to receive. For the Spirit had not yet been given,e because Jesus had not yet been glorified.
But then again, this form, that of living water flowing from within can, indeed, be witnessed, and I'd say must be 'rationalized' away in order to deny it.
Anyway, looking up the definition of baptize and baptism using data from Oxford languages, the term doesn't necessarily always involve water. I believe that the video shows several people baptized with the living water flowing from within the singer.
In attempt to clear up the possible confusion, you were speaking specifically to water, regarding your comment which form did not matter (I assume implying as long as water is present) while I was speaking specifically to the living water that Jesus spoke of in John 7, as being the only form of water (though this form cannot actually be witnessed) that actually does matter.
Living Water
37On the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood up and called out in a loud voice, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. 38Whoever believes in Me, as the Scripture has said: ‘Streams of living water will flow from within him.’ ” 39He was speaking about the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were later to receive. For the Spirit had not yet been given,e because Jesus had not yet been glorified.
But then again, this form, that of living water flowing from within can, indeed, be witnessed, and I'd say must be 'rationalized' away in order to deny it.
Anyway, looking up the definition of baptize and baptism using data from Oxford languages, the term doesn't necessarily always involve water. I believe that the video shows several people baptized with the living water flowing from within the singer.
In my opinion, you are making an argument from silence. I dont think that is a very good way to develop doctrine or church practices. There are a lot of things the Bible doesn’t say. If we just infer things from silence, we can come up with all kinds of ideas that aren’t actually taught in the Bible.
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Well it does refer to people “coming up out of the water.” Also the word itself actually means “immerse.” The word baptizo is an onomatopoeia, which means that the word sounds out the act. bap-tiz-o is the sound water makes when you slap someone down it and submerge them. So, I’d argue there’s more evidence in Scripture that not only does Scriptrue describe immersion, but the word itself implies it. Furthermore, early church history shows us this is how ALL baptisms took place. It wasn’t until around the 3rd century that alternate forms of Christian ”baptism” started to be introduced (i.e. sprinkling).
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I dont have time to respond to all these verses at this moment, however, I dont think your argument makes sense. Why would Paul tell them to repent and be baptized for forgiveness of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit if it wasn’t something that would happen at that moment? Are you suggesting they weren’t forgiven either? How long do you suppose they needed to wait for God to get around to forgiving them? Weeks? Months? Years? Clearly the implication here is if they respond in this way, God will immediately respond by forgiving them and granting the Spirit. In fact, the text goes on to say,
The text in Acts 15 you quote is referring to The account in Acts 10. In Acts 11, Peter explains why they baptized the Gentiles. He makes it clear that they were unwilling to baptize them until they saw the miraculous sign of the Spirit falling on them which convinced they they should not “withhold” baptism. So, this was the first time Gentiles were being welcomed into the church and God gave them the sign of the miraculous gift of the Spirit because the Jewish believers were unwilling to baptize them.
Also, I think you are confusing the miraculous gifts given by the Apostles to believers by the laying on of hands. Nothing indicates these believers didn’t receive the indwelling Spirit at baptism.…especially when multiple Scriptures indicate this is the case. They were given the unique and sometimes miraculous gifts at the laying on of the Apostles hands…which is why Simon wanted the Apostles to lay their hands on him to give him those supernatural gifts. We shouldn’t conflate that with conversion.
I dont know what 1 Cor 1 has to do with this. The point Paul is making is that people were misappropriating baptism to mean that they were more important based on who baptized them. Paul is not saying he is glad they weren’t baptized…he’s saying hes glad he didnt perform it so they would claim special standing based on his name. If anything, this text shows that early believers put a great amount of weight on the meaning of their baptism. Unfortunatly, these Corinthians were putting their confidence in the person who baptized them rather than in Jesus.
Anyway, I’m out of time. Thanks for the response.
The text in Acts 15 you quote is referring to The account in Acts 10. In Acts 11, Peter explains why they baptized the Gentiles. He makes it clear that they were unwilling to baptize them until they saw the miraculous sign of the Spirit falling on them which convinced they they should not “withhold” baptism. So, this was the first time Gentiles were being welcomed into the church and God gave them the sign of the miraculous gift of the Spirit because the Jewish believers were unwilling to baptize them.
Also, I think you are confusing the miraculous gifts given by the Apostles to believers by the laying on of hands. Nothing indicates these believers didn’t receive the indwelling Spirit at baptism.…especially when multiple Scriptures indicate this is the case. They were given the unique and sometimes miraculous gifts at the laying on of the Apostles hands…which is why Simon wanted the Apostles to lay their hands on him to give him those supernatural gifts. We shouldn’t conflate that with conversion.
I dont know what 1 Cor 1 has to do with this. The point Paul is making is that people were misappropriating baptism to mean that they were more important based on who baptized them. Paul is not saying he is glad they weren’t baptized…he’s saying hes glad he didnt perform it so they would claim special standing based on his name. If anything, this text shows that early believers put a great amount of weight on the meaning of their baptism. Unfortunatly, these Corinthians were putting their confidence in the person who baptized them rather than in Jesus.
Anyway, I’m out of time. Thanks for the response.
Thanks for your question. The way to be baptized is simply to believe in Jesus unto salvation. God gives people the ability to believe the good news. 'Baptize' is a word that simply means to be washed. While physical water cannot wash a person free from the stain of sin, God word can. When you believe the gospel unto salvation, the Bible calls you 'clean' and 'washed'.
"And such were some of you: but ye are washed"
"Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean "
The Bible talks about the washing of water by the word.: "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, "
So the water seems to mean the word of God. That would be why Jesus was able to say: "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. "
Notice what is not said here: It does not say you have to go through a religious ritual dunking in physical water to be clean and washed free from the stain of sin.
"And such were some of you: but ye are washed"
"Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean "
The Bible talks about the washing of water by the word.: "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, "
So the water seems to mean the word of God. That would be why Jesus was able to say: "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. "
Notice what is not said here: It does not say you have to go through a religious ritual dunking in physical water to be clean and washed free from the stain of sin.
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There were dire consequences for those who disobeyed the OT command to circumcise:
"He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." Gen 17:13-14
"And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, (Moses) and sought to kill him.
Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.
So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision." Ex 4:24-26
"He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." Gen 17:13-14
"And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, (Moses) and sought to kill him.
Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.
So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision." Ex 4:24-26