There will be no Rapture!!!

[FollowerofShiloh]

How my comment to him somehow translated into salvation...I have no idea.

Anyway...

MM

They walk to the beat of their own drum. If you knew their doctrine you would understand it's a manipulated move. It's like how they present a "Loving God" who for His Own purpose and Sovereignty has personally sent 3/4 of His creation to an eternal hell. But He's a "Loving God" who made them specifically to keep the flames a roaring.

 

[Musicmaster]

I am not disagreeing. We will be able to see the signs.

In fact, here's a sign. This was a few months ago. Satanism + Abortion used to be hush hush together but in Women's Cosmopolitan Satanists are helping women perform a Satanic Ritual and they posted in a magazine billions of people read.

Satanic abortion ritual:
First, you find a quiet space. Bring a mirror if you can. Just before taking the medication, gaze at your reflection and focus on your personhood. Home in on your intent, your responsibility to you.

Take a few deep, relaxing breaths. When you’re ready, read the following tenet aloud:
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

Take the medication and immediately afterward, recite, Beliefs should conform to one’s best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one’s beliefs.

Later, once your body expels the aborted tissue, return to your reflection.
Focus again on your personhood, your power in making this decision. Complete the ritual by reciting a personal affirmation: By my body, my blood; by my will, it is done.

Yes, and abortion will be with us until the culmination of almost all things after the tribulation.

Now, if I may, where it is agreed that the latter half of the tribulation is addressed as being "the great tribulation," the first half is indeed fraught with horror, given that a fourth of the world's population will perish through famines, wars, crime and pestilences (disease and infectious diseases, most of which which will be man-made).

The One who is opening the seals is the One bringing about all that death upon the earth. I say that because some of my pre-wrath acquaintances have told me that those deaths are naturally occurring on this earth, even though they are unleashed only upon the opening of those seals by the Hand of the Lord Himself.

So, there is wrath, and then there is great wrath that evolves over the lack of repentance upon the earth. Generally speaking, and for the sake of those out there who are mathematically challenged, just as many people are said to die in the great wrath as there will in the first half at the release of the four horsemen.

8,000,000,000 X 0.25 = 2,000,000,000
6,000,000,000 X 0.3333333 = 1,999,999,998

That is one half of the original population of the entire earth.

So, given the death rates outlined in Revelation in the different periodical sections of the tribulation, there really is no difference where the death rate is concerned. Setting the time of the rapture, therefore, merely on the descriptor of the periods just doesn't convince me of the pre-wrath timeframe, meaning that the Lord who promised deliverance from the day of the Lord, will leave the Church to be beaten, battered and bruised from those four horsemen of His wrath.

Just saying...

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

They walk to the beat of their own drum. If you knew their doctrine you would understand it's a manipulated move. It's like how they present a "Loving God" who for His Own purpose and Sovereignty has personally sent 3/4 of His creation to an eternal hell. But He's a "Loving God" who made them specifically to keep the flames a roaring.

Ah, now your talking about TULIP, to which I absolutely do not subscribe. If that's their take on things, then that's a problem with which they will have to grapple. Those who go into eternal flame are those who will have chosen to keep their sins upon themselves, and therefore try to atone for their sins on their own terms, which will take eternity to try and atone.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

That's what's amazing about Revelation 1, where it's stated that they are ALL without excuse.

MM

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Yes, and abortion will be with us until the culmination of almost all things after the tribulation.

Now, if I may, where it is agreed that the latter half of the tribulation is addressed as being "the great tribulation," the first half is indeed fraught with horror, given that a fourth of the world's population will perish through famines, wars, crime and pestilences (disease and infectious diseases, most of which which will be man-made).

The One who is opening the seals is the One bringing about all that death upon the earth. I say that because some of my pre-wrath acquaintances have told me that those deaths are naturally occurring on this earth, even though they are unleashed only upon the opening of those seals by the Hand of the Lord Himself.

So, there is wrath, and then there is great wrath that evolves over the lack of repentance upon the earth. Generally speaking, and for the sake of those out there who are mathematically challenged, just as many people are said to die in the great wrath as there will in the first half at the release of the four horsemen.

8,000,000,000 X 0.25 = 2,000,000,000
6,000,000,000 X 0.3333333 = 1,999,999,998

That is one half of the original population of the entire earth.

So, given the death rates outlined in Revelation in the different periodical sections of the tribulation, there really is no difference where the death rate is concerned. Setting the time of the rapture, therefore, merely on the descriptor of the periods just doesn't convince me of the pre-wrath timeframe, meaning that the Lord who promised deliverance from the day of the Lord, will leave the Church to be beaten, battered and bruised from those four horsemen of His wrath.

Just saying...

MM

I agree there is some wrath in the first portion of the first half of Tribulation. But Saint's are not in conflict with the AC until second half. We see 2 settings of people in Heaven around the Throne. Beheaded and those connected to the 144k. The Church, Saints right now, won't have to mess with the MOB but there's no real trouble for them until the AC makes war with them and the Church will be gone before that.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Ah, now your talking about TULIP, to which I absolutely do not subscribe. If that's their take on things, then that's a problem with which they will have to grapple. Those who go into eternal flame are those who will have chosen to keep their sins upon themselves, and therefore try to atone for their sins on their own terms, which will take eternity to try and atone.

MM

There's many of them here.
They preach 5 Doctrines of Grace but that Grace only applies to a select few...how ironic..

 

[Cameron143]

They walk to the beat of their own drum. If you knew their doctrine you would understand it's a manipulated move. It's like how they present a "Loving God" who for His Own purpose and Sovereignty has personally sent 3/4 of His creation to an eternal hell. But He's a "Loving God" who made them specifically to keep the flames a roaring.

That sounds scandalous as well as slanderous. You should be careful not to misrepresent people. That's called bearing false witness. One of the 10 biggies.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

That sounds scandalous as well as slanderous. You should be careful not to misrepresent people. That's called bearing false witness. One of the 10 biggies.

Should I list names then?

 

[Cameron143]

Should I list names then?

Wouldn't matter. Your earlier post was inaccurate with or without names.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Wouldn't matter. Your earlier post was inaccurate with or without names.

How so?
If the Reformed definition of predestination is to claim those who will be "saved," and is also a building block for the Doctrine, then it automatically eliminates the rest of creation by predestination to be eternally damned.

For it to work one way (guaranteed salvation) means it's also working the other way (guaranteed damnation).

Even though Peter destroys this idealism, it's still presented by all Reformers as Biblical truth.

 

[Cameron143]

How so?
If the Reformed definition of predestination is to claim those who will be "saved," and is also a building block for the Doctrine, then it automatically eliminates the rest of creation by predestination to be eternally damned.

For it to work one way (guaranteed salvation) means it's also working the other way (guaranteed damnation).

Even though Peter destroys this idealism, it's still presented by all Reformers as Biblical truth.

Go back to the post I cited. Reread it. See if everything in it is true, or are there errors and overgeneralizations?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Go back to the post I cited. Reread it. See if everything in it is true, or are there errors and overgeneralizations?

Reformers do present a Loving God.
Then they present predestination.
But predestination presents what all I have just described.

Should I be stoned for applying all idealism's together into a single thought?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I wish to show you something Psalms 83

Psalms 83:
7 The tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites; Moab, and the Hagrites;
8 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre;
9 Assyria also is joined with them


I will take these Nations mentioned and show you their modern day names.

Edom = Edom
Ishmaelites = Northern parts of Egypt
Moab = Moab
Gebal = is Phoenicia
Ammon = Ammon
Amalek = is North on map not showing
Philistia = Philistia [is modern day GAZA STRTIP]
Tyre = is North on map not showing
Assyria = Aram [IRAN]

These are the Nations that surround Israel
These are the Nations that fought when Israel tried to become a Nation, when Jerusalem was reassigned capitol of Israel, and they are once again all forming an alliance towards Israel.

But this time is different than before. Because even [Allies] of Israel are telling Israel not to do this and that. So all of the Nations are slowly turning against Israel.

I will also add Iran has now itself officially attacked Israel.

Oooh, nice info! Thank you so much!!! Will add this to my data storage!


🍦

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Oooh, nice info! Thank you so much!!! Will add this to my data storage!


🍦

I pray that it helps in your studies

 

[Cameron143]

Reformers do present a Loving God.
Then they present predestination.
But predestination presents what all I have just described.

Should I be stoned for applying all idealism's together into a single thought?

There is much dissension in reformed theology. There is no one size fits all. Also, where does 3/4's come from?
And you only presented your understanding of predestination. I'm reformed in matters of salvation, but I don't believe God predestines anyone to hell.

 

[Musicmaster]

I agree there is some wrath in the first portion of the first half of Tribulation. But Saint's are not in conflict with the AC until second half. We see 2 settings of people in Heaven around the Throne. Beheaded and those connected to the 144k. The Church, Saints right now, won't have to mess with the MOB but there's no real trouble for them until the AC makes war with them and the Church will be gone before that.

Also of interest is the total lack of any mention of the Church in all the chapters describing the tribulational events. The 24 elders, who are representative of the Church, are already in Heaven before the Lamb is handed the scroll with the seven seals. Many have told me that the "saints" is the Church. If that were true, then the "saints" in the great tribulation are also the Church being battered and destroyed. Do you see how bankrupt that view is in trying to smear the line of distinction?

MM

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

There is much dissension in reformed theology. There is no one size fits all. Also, where does 3/4's come from?
And you only presented your understanding of predestination. I'm reformed in matters of salvation, but I don't believe God predestines anyone to hell.

Fair Enough!
You are not like the majority of those who claim to be Reformed
But to those who do not think like you do...do match what I am stating.
3/4 comes from the pie-chart of the current data showing who Believes and follows God compared to those who do not.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Also of interest is the total lack of any mention of the Church in all the chapters describing the tribulational events. The 24 elders, who are representative of the Church, are already in Heaven before the Lamb is handed the scroll with the seven seals. Many have told me that the "saints" is the Church. If that were true, then the "saints" in the great tribulation are also the Church being battered and destroyed. Do you see how bankrupt that view is in trying to smear the line of distinction?

MM

Look at those 7 churches. We know for a fact these were set up by the Apostle Paul. And like many of the Churches he set up (Corinth and Others) they stumbled and had many issues and Paul had to correct them. Paul was dead in 95 A.D. John was alive. And we have written account from John's Disciples (Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Clement, Papias, Quadratus, ect..) that John became Bishop of these Churches and his Disciples became Pastors over them.

So remove that John was charged to handle these Churches and it leaves that NO Church is mentioned in Revelation.

I don't see anywhere in the Church Fathers writing these 7 Churches represented the Church any more differently than the Churches Paul set-up in Corinth, in Rome, in Thessalonica, in Galatia, and the many others.

 

[cv5]

If you knew what you were talking about, you would know for a certainty that the snatching of the Bride MUST necessarily take place before the tribulation. This due to the rapture being the 8th step in the 12 step Jewish wedding ritual.

Ooops typo.

11th step in the 12 step Jewish wedding ritual.
12th step is the wedding supper. Which happens ONLY AFTER the 7 day (7 year) honeymoon for the Groom and Bride at the Fathers house. While the tribulation rages upon those that dwell upon the earth.

While this is happening, the ten virgin bridesmaids (5 of whom are diligent.....the 144,000 ISRAELITE virgins) run hither and yon PROCLAIMING to the world the soon return of the Newlyweds to the earth to enjoy the long drawn-out wedding supper (millennial reign) that will include the invited guests. Including the resurrected OT saints.

BTW......the rotting/putrefaction of the world (during the tribulation.....society is falling apart) can only happen when the PRESERVING salt and light (Christians) are removed. At the rapture.

Who in their right mind would argue against any of this? I mean......it is infallibly Biblical after all.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

List of Church Fathers who believe John's Revelation revealed NO Pre-Trib Rapture:

Ironically, all of the Apostle John's Disciples are in this list: They would have been taught first hand directly from John.

Clement of Rome, Polycarp, Ignatius, Papias, Aristides, Epistle to Diognetus, The Didache, An Ancient Homily, Epistle of Barnabas, and Shepherd of Hermas, Justin Martyr, Tatian, Athenagoras, Theophilus of Antioch, Irenaeus, and Clement of Alexandria, Hippolytus, Tertullian, Cyprian, and Origen.



The Church Fathers believed that the Church would be on earth during the tribulation period. This is seen in the earliest writers and there is nothing in the other writers to contradict this. They speak of the persecution of the Church by the Antichrist and of the Church being on earth at the second advent of Christ. Two writers mention the translation of the Church but one, Irenaeus, does not tell when it will take place and the other, Origen, places it at the second advent of Christ.