The Law Is Out Of Date And Will "SOON DISAPPEAR"?
- Thread starter 2ndTimothyGroup
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Which is what the New Covenant covers- all part of the Promise Heb 8:10, Heb 10:16 Jer 31:33-34, one people in Christ grafted in through faith Gal 3:26-28 , having the law of God written in our hearts, keeping though our great love and faith in Jesus our Lord and Savior 1 John 5:3 Rom 3:31 Rev 14:12 and the power of the Holy Spirit John 14:15-18 which reconciles us Rev 22:14
-
1
- Show all
L
It's a fulfilled covenant. While the law represents the highest good for the believer, we obey from the heart that form of doctrine that was delivered to us. Obedience is built into the covenant. But it has nothing to do with the covenant. There are temporal repercussions, but no eternal repercussions.
You are attempting to relate to God on the basis of the law. Christians relate to God on the basis of their position in Christ. We recognize that we cannot relate to God in our own right doing because our righteousness displeases God and falls short of what God requires of us. You seem to think you are pleasing God by endeavoring to keep the commandments. Christians please God as Christ lives in and through them. You don't actually see how your confidence in your own obedience is contrary to grace.
It's a fulfilled covenant. While the law represents the highest good for the believer, we obey from the heart that form of doctrine that was delivered to us. Obedience is built into the covenant. But it has nothing to do with the covenant. There are temporal repercussions, but no eternal repercussions.
You are attempting to relate to God on the basis of the law. Christians relate to God on the basis of their position in Christ. We recognize that we cannot relate to God in our own right doing because our righteousness displeases God and falls short of what God requires of us. You seem to think you are pleasing God by endeavoring to keep the commandments. Christians please God as Christ lives in and through them. You don't actually see how your confidence in your own obedience is contrary to grace.
-
1
- Show all
God's law is in the center of everything- love, faith, obedience and how do we relate to God if we reject what He placed in our most inward parts?
The law leads us to Christ Psa 19:7 Gal 3:24 and Christ leads us to obey His law John 14:15- Christ is at the center of His law, it reflects His character which is why the devil attack it and those who keep Rev 12:17
Why do you think God's law is doing unrighteousness? That sounds like a deceptive doctrine......
Lets look at the scriptures....
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
What is God's righteousness- not what God wrote with His own finger and placed in our hearts- is this your argument- not His righteousness?
Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of Your word,
For all Your commandments are righteousness.
Is seeking His righteousness being hostile to any of His commandments Rom 8:7-8 that He deems holy and righteous? Exo 20:8-11 Isa 56:1-6 Psa 119:172
How do we seek His righteousness?
Romans 6:16 gives us a clue
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
As does Christ in His own Words
Christ righteousness is everlasting Psa 119:142
56 Thus says the Lord:
“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant
Isa 48:18
Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.
I guess it just comes down to a matter of faith and love in Jesus and who we yield ourselves servants to.
The law leads us to Christ Psa 19:7 Gal 3:24 and Christ leads us to obey His law John 14:15- Christ is at the center of His law, it reflects His character which is why the devil attack it and those who keep Rev 12:17
Why do you think God's law is doing unrighteousness? That sounds like a deceptive doctrine......
Lets look at the scriptures....
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
What is God's righteousness- not what God wrote with His own finger and placed in our hearts- is this your argument- not His righteousness?
Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of Your word,
For all Your commandments are righteousness.
Is seeking His righteousness being hostile to any of His commandments Rom 8:7-8 that He deems holy and righteous? Exo 20:8-11 Isa 56:1-6 Psa 119:172
How do we seek His righteousness?
Romans 6:16 gives us a clue
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
As does Christ in His own Words
Christ righteousness is everlasting Psa 119:142
56 Thus says the Lord:
“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant
Isa 48:18
Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.
I guess it just comes down to a matter of faith and love in Jesus and who we yield ourselves servants to.
-
1
- Show all
I agree our righteousness displeases God.
Isa 64:6 But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousness are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.
Our righteousness is like filthy rags. Thats why its so important not to depend on our righteousness, which is what we do when we reject God’s law because that is His standard of righteousness (right-doing) Psa 119:172 Psa 119:142 Rom 7:12.
Our obedience leads to righteousness sin leads to death.
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Why He pleads with us to hear His voice and not be in rebellion to Him Heb 3:7-8
Isa 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.
Isa 64:6 But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousness are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.
Our righteousness is like filthy rags. Thats why its so important not to depend on our righteousness, which is what we do when we reject God’s law because that is His standard of righteousness (right-doing) Psa 119:172 Psa 119:142 Rom 7:12.
Our obedience leads to righteousness sin leads to death.
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Why He pleads with us to hear His voice and not be in rebellion to Him Heb 3:7-8
Isa 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.
God's law in our heart is not a fulfilled covenant- there is no scripture that says we can now disobey the laws God wrote in our hearts and He is no longer our God and we no longer His people. It shows it will be kept by God's faithful until His return Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14
God loves us all so very much, He lived to be our example 1 John 2:6 showed us the WAY , He died to be our Savior and what He asks in return is so little.
Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments
God's righteous commandments are given to us for our own good 1 John 5:3, not to be burdensome, but shows our love and faith in Him to trust what He asks is because it's for our own good.
God loves us all so very much, He lived to be our example 1 John 2:6 showed us the WAY , He died to be our Savior and what He asks in return is so little.
Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments
God's righteous commandments are given to us for our own good 1 John 5:3, not to be burdensome, but shows our love and faith in Him to trust what He asks is because it's for our own good.
-
1
- Show all
Hello friendly friends,
I am working my way through Day 356 of the timeline, chronological study plan and in this set of unbelievable Scripture, arises this matter of the Levitical Law and its expiration date.
Hebrews 8:13 KJV - 13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13 NLT - 13 When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.
There is plenty of Scripture to demonstrate that the Law has been removed as of the Resurrection of Christ.
I, at this time, believe that the Law has been extinct for a couple thousand years, but I need to make sure that I am, gulp, "right" about this belief.
Thank you to all who participate with the maturity that only comes from the same Love that the Father has for His Holy Son (should the Lord have placed it within you).
I am working my way through Day 356 of the timeline, chronological study plan and in this set of unbelievable Scripture, arises this matter of the Levitical Law and its expiration date.
Hebrews 8:13 KJV - 13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13 NLT - 13 When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.
There is plenty of Scripture to demonstrate that the Law has been removed as of the Resurrection of Christ.
I, at this time, believe that the Law has been extinct for a couple thousand years, but I need to make sure that I am, gulp, "right" about this belief.
Thank you to all who participate with the maturity that only comes from the same Love that the Father has for His Holy Son (should the Lord have placed it within you).
Paul said we do not void out the law through faith, but we establish the law.
And the law is spiritual, holy, just, and good, which are the moral laws, laws of love.
We always have to obey the law of moral laws, laws of love.
Which Paul said that out of faith, hope, and charity, love in action, that charity is the greatest, and faith works by love.
Which they say faith alone, but it is love alone, and all things stem from love to be right with God.
Which love does not think an evil thought, and does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth to be Christlike.
Which a Spirit led person will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections, and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit.
So there is no excuse.
A Spirit led person is not under the law because their sins are forgiven, and they are not sinning, therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.
Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way nailing them to His cross, for they are contrary to us that they had no bearing on salvation.
But the law aways remains for it is spiritual, holy, just, and good, which they always remain.
It is strange how people think the law is removed when it is because we obey the law, establish it, that we are saved.
The blood of Christ completely washes away our sins allowing us to have the Spirit which we can abstain from sin, and obey the law to be right with God.
The law can never be removed for it is all about obeying the law, the moral laws, laws of love, to be right with God because then we are being Christlike.
Is a person saying we do not have to be Christlike to be right with God because the law was removed when it is because of the law that we act Christlike.
How do you act Christlike if the law is removed when being Christlike is doing good which is what the law is about.
Paul said we establish the law not void out the law.
If Paul said we do not void out the law why would someone say the law is removed for do they know something Paul does not.
Were they given a new revelation not received by all saints.
We do not go by the law they cry out which does not make any sense.
Every time we sin we are back under the law until we repent and allow the Spirit to lead us to obey the law.
Some people seem like they are saying we are not under the law as if we do not have to obey the law to be right with God when it is
about obeying the law to be right with God.
In the Old Testament they could not receive the Holy Spirit for their sins were not completely washed away, which is why there was a remembrance of their sins every year in which they had to be covered by blood again, and they did not have the power of the Holy Spirit to abstain from sin like the New Testament.
We blood of Christ washes away our sins completely so we can have the Spirit which gives us the power to abstain from sin.
We still have to obey the law the same as in the Old Testament but we have the power of the Holy Spirit to cause us not to sin which we can establish the law.
But the Bible says some have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, which they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, which turn away from these people.
These people deny the Spirit leading them and will enjoy sin and believe they are right with God.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
God's righteous commandments are given to us for our own good 1 John 5:3, not to be burdensome, but shows our love and faith in Him to trust what He asks is because it's for our own good.
yes the things he said when he came among us are his commands , it wasnt written on stones for these folks
“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers,( thou shalt not kill) for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons,( thou shalt not bear false witness ) and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.”
1 Timothy 1:9-11
Moses law is for people who haven’t received the holy ghost , haven’t had tbier sins remitted , haven’t been born again …..
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:10-12 KJV
It’s called Moses law because he os the mediator of the Ten Commandments to the children of Israel .
I don’t think you’ve heard the wotness of Christ and the gospel in the Old Testament
moses law and the Ten Commandments were given but God said this
“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.
My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
Isaiah 51:4-5 KJV
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;( the Ten Commandments were given when he led them from Egypt he’s going to make another covenant not according to that ) which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
Jeremiah 31:31-32 KJV
jesus is the lawgiver it’s anew covenant not according to the Ten Commandments goven at Sinai when he led them out from Egypt like it says there
“I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;”
also we have not come to the giving of the Ten Commandments from Sinai
“For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, and the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; ( when he gave them the Ten Commandments ) which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (for they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: and so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake”
Hebrews 12:18-21 KJV
That’s not our law it was the children of Israel’s tribes covenant that they broke and became cursed by and then God promised to make a new covenant not according to that one
It’s a common problem however being blinded by putting your trust in the Old Testament law those ot was given to could not see its end either
“But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
…..and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
2 Corinthians 3:7, 13-15 KJV
Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible where the law was given from Sinai looking th ere to see God all you’ll see is a wall of fire and pillars of smoke and him telling the people stay far away from me don’t try to see me or you’ll all perish when I break forth upon you
If you want to know and see and hear God and his words start at the gospel according to John , and proceed to the other three accounts of our God and his word in the gospel
yes the things he said when he came among us are his commands , it wasnt written on stones for these folks
“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers,( thou shalt not kill) for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons,( thou shalt not bear false witness ) and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.”
1 Timothy 1:9-11
Moses law is for people who haven’t received the holy ghost , haven’t had tbier sins remitted , haven’t been born again …..
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:10-12 KJV
It’s called Moses law because he os the mediator of the Ten Commandments to the children of Israel .
I don’t think you’ve heard the wotness of Christ and the gospel in the Old Testament
moses law and the Ten Commandments were given but God said this
“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.
My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
Isaiah 51:4-5 KJV
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;( the Ten Commandments were given when he led them from Egypt he’s going to make another covenant not according to that ) which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
Jeremiah 31:31-32 KJV
jesus is the lawgiver it’s anew covenant not according to the Ten Commandments goven at Sinai when he led them out from Egypt like it says there
“I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;”
also we have not come to the giving of the Ten Commandments from Sinai
“For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, and the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; ( when he gave them the Ten Commandments ) which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (for they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: and so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
”Hebrews 12:18-21 KJV
That’s not our law it was the children of Israel’s tribes covenant that they broke and became cursed by and then God promised to make a new covenant not according to that one
It’s a common problem however being blinded by putting your trust in the Old Testament law those ot was given to could not see its end either
“But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
…..and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
2 Corinthians 3:7, 13-15 KJV
Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible where the law was given from Sinai looking th ere to see God all you’ll see is a wall of fire and pillars of smoke and him telling the people stay far away from me don’t try to see me or you’ll all perish when I break forth upon you
If you want to know and see and hear God and his words start at the gospel according to John , and proceed to the other three accounts of our God and his word in the gospel
You missed the point. It's a covenant of grace. There are no stipulations other than faith to enter it. Once in, the mediator of the covenant takes up residence in you and conforms you to His likeness. We are not in relationship to God based on our performance. And the law is not at the center. Christ is the center of everything. Until this resonates with you, you will attempt to deal with God on the basis of your righteousness and not His.
-
1
- Show all
It's a covenant in His blood. His perfect obedience and shed blood qualified Him as Savior.
The first Adam was given a covenant of works. He failed. The second Adam was also under a covenant of works. He fulfilled the covenant by fulfilling all the requirements of the law.In Adam we all died. In Christ we are made alive.
Notice, the covenants are directly with Adam and Christ. Which one we are in depends solely on their performance not ours.
The old covenant was made at Sinai and was made between God and the descendants of Abraham. God and man. This is the covenant that ended with the cross, and because of the failure to abide by the stipulations of the covenant, God destroyed Israel and Jerusalem. This is what the sanctions for failing in the covenant led to, and is the subject of the book of Revelation.
The new covenant between Father and Son was made in eternity past and first revealed in Genesis 3. All subsequent covenants are a broadening and further revealing of this covenant of grace.
If you need clarification or have more questions, please ask.
The first Adam was given a covenant of works. He failed. The second Adam was also under a covenant of works. He fulfilled the covenant by fulfilling all the requirements of the law.In Adam we all died. In Christ we are made alive.
Notice, the covenants are directly with Adam and Christ. Which one we are in depends solely on their performance not ours.
The old covenant was made at Sinai and was made between God and the descendants of Abraham. God and man. This is the covenant that ended with the cross, and because of the failure to abide by the stipulations of the covenant, God destroyed Israel and Jerusalem. This is what the sanctions for failing in the covenant led to, and is the subject of the book of Revelation.
The new covenant between Father and Son was made in eternity past and first revealed in Genesis 3. All subsequent covenants are a broadening and further revealing of this covenant of grace.
If you need clarification or have more questions, please ask.
Well you seem not to be arguing with me, but the scriptures posted in my previous reply.
You might consider reading Romans 6 and Romans 3 because grace is not a license to sin and faith establishes the law. I mean how does one profess faith to God, but not faith to believe and do His teachings.
If there was no law, we wouldn't even need grace because sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4. You take away the law, you take away the need for grace and the need for a Savior who came to save us from sin.
Anyway, I figured it would get personal, it usually does instead of dealing with the scriptures. Guess we once again will have to agree to disagree. All gets sorted out soon enough but I wish you well in seeking Truth to God's Word.
You might consider reading Romans 6 and Romans 3 because grace is not a license to sin and faith establishes the law. I mean how does one profess faith to God, but not faith to believe and do His teachings.
If there was no law, we wouldn't even need grace because sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4. You take away the law, you take away the need for grace and the need for a Savior who came to save us from sin.
Anyway, I figured it would get personal, it usually does instead of dealing with the scriptures. Guess we once again will have to agree to disagree. All gets sorted out soon enough but I wish you well in seeking Truth to God's Word.