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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,563
498
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That’s why Peter commanded them to be baptized with the same baptism that he told to the 3000 Jews in chapter 2 verse 38–the baptism that would forgive their sins. THEN, theY would be clean spiritually as well as socially.
Really, that is what Peter understood then, being betwixt between his new person, made by God Father to him for him.
Peter saw this later and wrote this about water Baptism

1 Peter 3:17-22

Authorized (King James) Version

17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22 who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Freed from under Law (Having to do or else attitudes) to choosing to do willingly between God and you, not others and you, thank you
Love from God to all, who went to that cross willingly to first reconcile us all to himself, then in the resurrection give us new life that all people need after first birth in flesh and blood, If, one asks without an improper motive to get it to spend it on their own pleasures, one receives
Believing continued, no matter what happens, gets one to see the truth over the error(s) made after belief to God. One see new and then does it in response after aware, Matthew 10:16-20, Luke 21:14-15
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,952
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Receiving the Holy Ghost is being filled with the Holy Ghost and takes place just as it did for the individuals on the Day of Pentecost.


And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:3-4


Peter explained those speaking in unknown tongues were not drunk as some supposed:
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Acts 2:33


Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:38-39
All this is based on being anointed by the spirit.

You can quote acts 2 until your blue in the face. No one in acts 2 recieved the spirit because they were baptised.. The language written does not allow it..
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,952
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The sum of God's word is the truth.

The word of truth, the gospel of salvation is presented in Acts 2. The birth of the church took place on that day.

"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..." Acts 2:42
Yes

Because they recieved the spirit through faith and repentance. They were baptized.

Not in order to recieve it.

You can not earn the gift of the Holy Spirit. In this lifetime or the next.
 
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
164
63
Spend a little time being homeless like Jesus was and you might find yourself in a river,lake ,or creek on a regular basis.
Gotta do what you gotta do.



Word: baptizw

Pronounce: bap-tid'-zo

Strongs Number: G907

Orig: from a derivative of 911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:--Baptist, baptize, wash. G911

Use: TDNT-1:529,92

Heb Strong: H2881

  1. 1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
    2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
    3) to overwhelm
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
All this is based on being anointed by the spirit.

You can quote acts 2 until your blue in the face. No one in acts 2 recieved the spirit because they were baptised.. The language written does not allow it..
I've never stated people receive the Holy Ghost when they get water baptized. Scripture records both experiences are necessary, that is the point.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
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Yes

Because they recieved the spirit through faith and repentance. They were baptized.

Not in order to recieve it.

You can not earn the gift of the Holy Spirit. In this lifetime or the next.
Again, I have never said a person had to be water baptized in order to receive the Holy Ghost.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,952
1,873
113
Again, I have never said a person had to be water baptized in order to receive the Holy Ghost.
oh really?

Receiving the Holy Spirit is the experience of being sealed. Believers in Jesus who repent, and submit to baptism in His name are promised they will receive the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
When you promote a falshood. it usually comes back to bite you.

Don;t deny something when it can be proven otherwise by using your own words against you
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,952
1,873
113
Spend a little time being homeless like Jesus was and you might find yourself in a river,lake ,or creek on a regular basis.
Gotta do what you gotta do.



Word: baptizw

Pronounce: bap-tid'-zo

Strongs Number: G907

Orig: from a derivative of 911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:--Baptist, baptize, wash. G911

Use: TDNT-1:529,92

Heb Strong: H2881

  1. 1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
    2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
    3) to overwhelm
Stongs is a good recourse. but many times it is flawed.

Here is an exerpt taken from the book "word studies of the greek new testament" From Kenneth Wuest concerning the word Baptizo

Baptise, baptism, these two words are not native to the english language, therefore do not have any intrinsic meaning of their own. The only rightfull meaning they can have is the one derived from the greek word of which they are the spelling. The verb is spelled Baptizo, from which a slight change in spelling we get our worde baptize, the noun is baptisma, and taking off the last letter we have baptism.

we will study these words first in their classic usage. The word baptizo is related to another greek word bapto. the latter meant to dip, dip under. it was used of the smith tempering the red hot steel. it was also used of the sense of to dip in dye, to color or steep. it was used in the act of dyeing the hair, and of glazing earthen vessels. it was used as a proverb in the sense of "steeping someone in crimson". that is giving him a bloody coxcomb. It meant also to fill by dipping in, to draw. It was used of a ship that dipped, that is sank. Baptizo the related word meant to dip repeatedly. it was used of the act of sinking ships. it meant also to bathe. it was used in the phrase soaked in wine. where the word soaked, is the meaning of baptizo. it is found in the phrase overhead and ears in debt, where the word overhead and ears, are the graphic nature of what the word meant. the word here therefor means completely submerged. our present day English equivalent would be sunk. A baptes (is one who dips or dyes. a baptisis is a dipping, bathing, a washing, a drawing of water. A baptisma is that which is dipped, a baptisteron is a bathing place, a baptistes is one that dips, a dyer, baptos means dipped, dyed. bright colored, drawn like water.
Baptizo is used in the 9th book of the odyssey, where the hissing of the burning eye of the cyclops is compared to the sound of water where the smith dips ( baptizo) a piece of iron, tempering it. , in the battle of frogs and mice, it is said that a mouse thrust a frog with a reed, and the frog leaped over the water, dying ( baptizo ) the water with blood. Euripides uses the word as a ship which goes down in the water and does not come back to the surface. Lucian dreams that he has seen a huge bird shot with a mighty arrow, and as it flies high in the air, it dyes ( baptizo) the earth with his blood. in Xenophon's Anabasis, we have the instance where the Greek soldiers placed ( baptizo) the points of their spears in a bowl of blood.
We come now to the usage of these words in the koine greek, giving examples from the papyri, the LXX, and the new testament.
In secular documents of the koine period, Moulton and Milligan report the following uses of baptise.. A submerged boat, ceremonial ablusions, a person flooded or overwhelmed in calamities. they say that the word was used in its metaphorical sense even among the uneducated of people. . A biblical example of this is found in our Lords speaking of his passion as a baptism ( matt 10: 38), these scholars report the use of bapto as referring to fullers and dyers. the word is used of colored garments, and of wool to be dyed. the word baptisma is found in a question regarding a new baptism someone is reported to be preaching. This use of the noun is peculiar to the N.T. and to ecclesiastical writers.
In the LXX we have in leviticus 4: 6 the words, and the priest shall dip ( bapto) his finger in the blood, and sprinkle (prosraino) of the blood seven times before the Lord. Here the word Bapto is found juxtaposition to prostriano, a verb closely allied with prozrantizo, baptiso meaning to dip, the latter verb to sprinkle
In the NT we have the rich man asking that lazerus dip ( bapto) his finger in water and cool his tongue. ( luke 16: 24 ). In Heb 9: 10, Baptisma is translated washings and refers to the ceremonial ablusions of Judaism. In Mark 7: 4 Baptisma is used of the ceremonial washings of cups, pots, brazen vessels and tables, Baptisma is used in Matt 3: 7 and baptizo in matt 3: 16 and 1 cor 14 of the rite of water baptism. In Mark 10: 38 our Lord speaks of his sufferings on the cross as the baptisma with which he is to be baptizo.
In these examples we see various uses of the words bapto and baptizo we discover three distinct usages, a mechanical, a ceremonial and a metaphoricle one.
The mechanical usage can be illustrated by the action of the smith dipping the hot iron in water, tempering it, or the dyer dipping the cloth in the dye for the purpose of dying it. these instances of the use of our greek word, give us the following defenition of the word in its mechanical usage. the word refers to the introduction or placing of a person or thing into a new environment or into union with something else, as to alter its condition or its relationship to its previous environment or condition. While the word, we found, had other uses, yet the one that predominated above the others was the mechanical one. Observe how perfectly the meaning is in accord with the usage of the word in rom 6: 3- 4. where the believing sinner is baptized into vital union with Jesus Christ. The believing sinner is introduced or placed in Christ, thus coming into union with him. By that action, he is taken out of his old environment and condition in which he had lived, the first adam, and is placed into a new environment and condition, the last Adam. By this action his condition is changed from that of a lost sinner with a totally depraved nature to that of a saint with a divine nature. His relationship to the law of God is changed from that of a guilty sinner to that of a justified saint. All this is accomplish with the act of the Holy Spirit introducing, or placing us into vital union with Jesus Christ. No ceremony of water baptism ever did that! The entire context is supernatural in its character. The greek word here should not be transliterated but translated. The translation should read; " as many were introduced (placed ) into Christ jesus, into his death were introduced. therefore we were buried with him through the aforementioned introduction into his death. The same holds true for 1 cor 12: 13; which should be translated " for through the instrumentality of one spirit, we were all placed into one body." It is because we so often associate the English word "baptism" with the rite of water baptism, that we read that ceremony into Romans 6. A student is one of the writer's greek classes who is a greek himself, who learned to speak that language as his mother tongue and studied it in the schools of greece, stated during a class discussion that the greek reader would react to the Greek Text of Romans and the word baptizo as the writer has.
 
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
164
63
Stongs is a good recourse. but many times it is flawed.

Here is an exerpt taken from the book "word studies of the greek new testament" From Kenneth Wuest concerning the word Baptizo

Baptise, baptism, these two words are not native to the english language, therefore do not have any intrinsic meaning of their own. The only rightfull meaning they can have is the one derived from the greek word of which they are the spelling. The verb is spelled Baptizo, from which a slight change in spelling we get our worde baptize, the noun is baptisma, and taking off the last letter we have baptism.

we will study these words first in their classic usage. The word baptizo is related to another greek word bapto. the latter meant to dip, dip under. it was used of the smith tempering the red hot steel. it was also used of the sense of to dip in dye, to color or steep. it was used in the act of dyeing the hair, and of glazing earthen vessels. it was used as a proverb in the sense of "steeping someone in crimson". that is giving him a bloody coxcomb. It meant also to fill by dipping in, to draw. It was used of a ship that dipped, that is sank. Baptizo the related word meant to dip repeatedly. it was used of the act of sinking ships. it meant also to bathe. it was used in the phrase soaked in wine. where the word soaked, is the meaning of baptizo. it is found in the phrase overhead and ears in debt, where the word overhead and ears, are the graphic nature of what the word meant. the word here therefor means completely submerged. our present day English equivalent would be sunk. A baptes (is one who dips or dyes. a baptisis is a dipping, bathing, a washing, a drawing of water. A baptisma is that which is dipped, a baptisteron is a bathing place, a baptistes is one that dips, a dyer, baptos means dipped, dyed. bright colored, drawn like water.
Baptizo is used in the 9th book of the odyssey, where the hissing of the burning eye of the cyclops is compared to the sound of water where the smith dips ( baptizo) a piece of iron, tempering it. , in the battle of frogs and mice, it is said that a mouse thrust a frog with a reed, and the frog leaped over the water, dying ( baptizo ) the water with blood. Euripides uses the word as a ship which goes down in the water and does not come back to the surface. Lucian dreams that he has seen a huge bird shot with a mighty arrow, and as it flies high in the air, it dyes ( baptizo) the earth with his blood. in Xenophon's Anabasis, we have the instance where the Greek soldiers placed ( baptizo) the points of their spears in a bowl of blood.
We come now to the usage of these words in the koine greek, giving examples from the papyri, the LXX, and the new testament.
In secular documents of the koine period, Moulton and Milligan report the following uses of baptise.. A submerged boat, ceremonial ablusions, a person flooded or overwhelmed in calamities. they say that the word was used in its metaphorical sense even among the uneducated of people. . A biblical example of this is found in our Lords speaking of his passion as a baptism ( matt 10: 38), these scholars report the use of bapto as referring to fullers and dyers. the word is used of colored garments, and of wool to be dyed. the word baptisma is found in a question regarding a new baptism someone is reported to be preaching. This use of the noun is peculiar to the N.T. and to ecclesiastical writers.
In the LXX we have in leviticus 4: 6 the words, and the priest shall dip ( bapto) his finger in the blood, and sprinkle (prosraino) of the blood seven times before the Lord. Here the word Bapto is found juxtaposition to prostriano, a verb closely allied with prozrantizo, baptiso meaning to dip, the latter verb to sprinkle
In the NT we have the rich man asking that lazerus dip ( bapto) his finger in water and cool his tongue. ( luke 16: 24 ). In Heb 9: 10, Baptisma is translated washings and refers to the ceremonial ablusions of Judaism. In Mark 7: 4 Baptisma is used of the ceremonial washings of cups, pots, brazen vessels and tables, Baptisma is used in Matt 3: 7 and baptizo in matt 3: 16 and 1 cor 14 of the rite of water baptism. In Mark 10: 38 our Lord speaks of his sufferings on the cross as the baptisma with which he is to be baptizo.
In these examples we see various uses of the words bapto and baptizo we discover three distinct usages, a mechanical, a ceremonial and a metaphoricle one.
The mechanical usage can be illustrated by the action of the smith dipping the hot iron in water, tempering it, or the dyer dipping the cloth in the dye for the purpose of dying it. these instances of the use of our greek word, give us the following defenition of the word in its mechanical usage. the word refers to the introduction or placing of a person or thing into a new environment or into union with something else, as to alter its condition or its relationship to its previous environment or condition. While the word, we found, had other uses, yet the one that predominated above the others was the mechanical one. Observe how perfectly the meaning is in accord with the usage of the word in rom 6: 3- 4. where the believing sinner is baptized into vital union with Jesus Christ. The believing sinner is introduced or placed in Christ, thus coming into union with him. By that action, he is taken out of his old environment and condition in which he had lived, the first adam, and is placed into a new environment and condition, the last Adam. By this action his condition is changed from that of a lost sinner with a totally depraved nature to that of a saint with a divine nature. His relationship to the law of God is changed from that of a guilty sinner to that of a justified saint. All this is accomplish with the act of the Holy Spirit introducing, or placing us into vital union with Jesus Christ. No ceremony of water baptism ever did that! The entire context is supernatural in its character. The greek word here should not be transliterated but translated. The translation should read; " as many were introduced (placed ) into Christ jesus, into his death were introduced. therefore we were buried with him through the aforementioned introduction into his death. The same holds true for 1 cor 12: 13; which should be translated " for through the instrumentality of one spirit, we were all placed into one body." It is because we so often associate the English word "baptism" with the rite of water baptism, that we read that ceremony into Romans 6. A student is one of the writer's greek classes who is a greek himself, who learned to speak that language as his mother tongue and studied it in the schools of greece, stated during a class discussion that the greek reader would react to the Greek Text of Romans and the word baptizo as the writer has.
I understand.
It's like taking a bath and having been made clean.

It's an act to wash.

1 Peter 3:21
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[a] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


I understood the moment I received the holy Ghost ,my sins had been forgiven and my conscience made clear .But like I said before,this took place in my home while I was praying.No other humans present and no water used .My tears were turned to gladness .
I found God.
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
628
220
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You “get” saved when you obey Christ’s commands just like the people in the New Testament did. God gave us commands and then He gave us “examples” of people being saved in the first century.
Some of the confusion about that is because there are 2 different laws in the New Testament. (1) is the old Jewish law of Moses. It was being replaced by the (2) New Law of Christ called the law of Faith. Romans 3:27.
Hebrews 9:16-17 tells exactly when the Old law ended and the New law was put in force. The old law ended when Jesus died on the cross. Colossians 2:14. Up until that time, all Jews were under the old Jewish law. That’s why Jesus kept the old law while He was alive here on the earth. The New Testament is called the last will and trstament of Jesus Christ. and like any will today, it is not in force until that person dies. So, while Jesus was alive, he handed out salvation to many people in anyway He chose; like the man who was let down through the roof and the thief on the cross. There was no specific plan they had to follow. But once Jesus was dead, His “will” took over and He left a specific plan for everyone to follow if you want to be saved. He introduced this plan before He died but no one preached it until 50 days after His death.(Pentecost-Acts2). It wasn’t in force until AFTER Jis death.
Mark 16:16- JESUS said, “ He that BELIEVES and is BAPTIZED shall be saved.” That is the simple formula and that is what EVERY CONVERT in the New Testament did after His death. See the Book of Acts; chapters 2,8,9,10,16,22) But there are other scriptures also that have to do with salvation; like Luke 13:3 and Acts 2:38 that tell us to “REPENT.” And there is Matthew 10:32 and Romans 10:9 that tell us to “CONFESS” unto salvation. We have the command and then we have the example of that in Acts 8:37 where the Ethiopian Eunuch confessed his faith in Christ just before he was baptized.
There are so many scriptures that teach and show examples of BAPTISM until it is hard to get them all on here. FIRST WE HAVE Jesus’s statement in Mark 16:16 and then we have Peter’s teaching in 1 Peter 3:21 that says baptism saves us. All of the scriptures that deal with baptism have it as part of the plan if salvation. It is NEVER portrayed as coming AFTER salvation. ALL of the examples innActs of any converts to Christianity show them believing and being baptized—Just like Jesus said in Mark16:16, with some also showing repentance and confession.
Psalm 119:160 says THE SUM of your word is truth. Put it all together and you have God’s plan of salvation. BELIEVE, REPENT, CONFESS and be BAPTIZED for the remission of sins as Peter said in Acts 2:38. This is what the Bible says about how to be saved. It is God’s plan—not man’s.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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So not one was ever saved by the law. But we in the nt have to obey Gods new commands?

Does anyone else see the flaw in this logic?
What logic?

Jesus never commanded water to be used in baptism.Jesus did not submerge anyone in water.Not even his own disciples. They followed him for years and he never Baptised them in a river or anything .
It wasn't till the night before his death till he washed their feet and that speaks volumes .

It wasn't till the day of Pentecost did Jesus Baptise someone and he still didnt use water.


Why would Jesus command water baptism when he wouldn't administer it himself?
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
918
212
43
Stongs is a good recourse. but many times it is flawed.

Here is an exerpt taken from the book "word studies of the greek new testament" From Kenneth Wuest concerning the word Baptizo

Baptise, baptism, these two words are not native to the english language, therefore do not have any intrinsic meaning of their own. The only rightfull meaning they can have is the one derived from the greek word of which they are the spelling. The verb is spelled Baptizo, from which a slight change in spelling we get our worde baptize, the noun is baptisma, and taking off the last letter we have baptism.

we will study these words first in their classic usage. The word baptizo is related to another greek word bapto. the latter meant to dip, dip under. it was used of the smith tempering the red hot steel. it was also used of the sense of to dip in dye, to color or steep. it was used in the act of dyeing the hair, and of glazing earthen vessels. it was used as a proverb in the sense of "steeping someone in crimson". that is giving him a bloody coxcomb. It meant also to fill by dipping in, to draw. It was used of a ship that dipped, that is sank. Baptizo the related word meant to dip repeatedly. it was used of the act of sinking ships. it meant also to bathe. it was used in the phrase soaked in wine. where the word soaked, is the meaning of baptizo. it is found in the phrase overhead and ears in debt, where the word overhead and ears, are the graphic nature of what the word meant. the word here therefor means completely submerged. our present day English equivalent would be sunk. A baptes (is one who dips or dyes. a baptisis is a dipping, bathing, a washing, a drawing of water. A baptisma is that which is dipped, a baptisteron is a bathing place, a baptistes is one that dips, a dyer, baptos means dipped, dyed. bright colored, drawn like water.
Baptizo is used in the 9th book of the odyssey, where the hissing of the burning eye of the cyclops is compared to the sound of water where the smith dips ( baptizo) a piece of iron, tempering it. , in the battle of frogs and mice, it is said that a mouse thrust a frog with a reed, and the frog leaped over the water, dying ( baptizo ) the water with blood. Euripides uses the word as a ship which goes down in the water and does not come back to the surface. Lucian dreams that he has seen a huge bird shot with a mighty arrow, and as it flies high in the air, it dyes ( baptizo) the earth with his blood. in Xenophon's Anabasis, we have the instance where the Greek soldiers placed ( baptizo) the points of their spears in a bowl of blood.
We come now to the usage of these words in the koine greek, giving examples from the papyri, the LXX, and the new testament.
In secular documents of the koine period, Moulton and Milligan report the following uses of baptise.. A submerged boat, ceremonial ablusions, a person flooded or overwhelmed in calamities. they say that the word was used in its metaphorical sense even among the uneducated of people. . A biblical example of this is found in our Lords speaking of his passion as a baptism ( matt 10: 38), these scholars report the use of bapto as referring to fullers and dyers. the word is used of colored garments, and of wool to be dyed. the word baptisma is found in a question regarding a new baptism someone is reported to be preaching. This use of the noun is peculiar to the N.T. and to ecclesiastical writers.
In the LXX we have in leviticus 4: 6 the words, and the priest shall dip ( bapto) his finger in the blood, and sprinkle (prosraino) of the blood seven times before the Lord. Here the word Bapto is found juxtaposition to prostriano, a verb closely allied with prozrantizo, baptiso meaning to dip, the latter verb to sprinkle
In the NT we have the rich man asking that lazerus dip ( bapto) his finger in water and cool his tongue. ( luke 16: 24 ). In Heb 9: 10, Baptisma is translated washings and refers to the ceremonial ablusions of Judaism. In Mark 7: 4 Baptisma is used of the ceremonial washings of cups, pots, brazen vessels and tables, Baptisma is used in Matt 3: 7 and baptizo in matt 3: 16 and 1 cor 14 of the rite of water baptism. In Mark 10: 38 our Lord speaks of his sufferings on the cross as the baptisma with which he is to be baptizo.
In these examples we see various uses of the words bapto and baptizo we discover three distinct usages, a mechanical, a ceremonial and a metaphoricle one.
The mechanical usage can be illustrated by the action of the smith dipping the hot iron in water, tempering it, or the dyer dipping the cloth in the dye for the purpose of dying it. these instances of the use of our greek word, give us the following defenition of the word in its mechanical usage. the word refers to the introduction or placing of a person or thing into a new environment or into union with something else, as to alter its condition or its relationship to its previous environment or condition. While the word, we found, had other uses, yet the one that predominated above the others was the mechanical one. Observe how perfectly the meaning is in accord with the usage of the word in rom 6: 3- 4. where the believing sinner is baptized into vital union with Jesus Christ. The believing sinner is introduced or placed in Christ, thus coming into union with him. By that action, he is taken out of his old environment and condition in which he had lived, the first adam, and is placed into a new environment and condition, the last Adam. By this action his condition is changed from that of a lost sinner with a totally depraved nature to that of a saint with a divine nature. His relationship to the law of God is changed from that of a guilty sinner to that of a justified saint. All this is accomplish with the act of the Holy Spirit introducing, or placing us into vital union with Jesus Christ. No ceremony of water baptism ever did that! The entire context is supernatural in its character. The greek word here should not be transliterated but translated. The translation should read; " as many were introduced (placed ) into Christ jesus, into his death were introduced. therefore we were buried with him through the aforementioned introduction into his death. The same holds true for 1 cor 12: 13; which should be translated " for through the instrumentality of one spirit, we were all placed into one body." It is because we so often associate the English word "baptism" with the rite of water baptism, that we read that ceremony into Romans 6. A student is one of the writer's greek classes who is a greek himself, who learned to speak that language as his mother tongue and studied it in the schools of greece, stated during a class discussion that the greek reader would react to the Greek Text of Romans and the word baptizo as the writer has.
2 Timothy 3:7
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
oh really?



When you promote a falshood. it usually comes back to bite you.

Don;t deny something when it can be proven otherwise by using your own words against you
My posts are there for all to see.

The scripture in Acts 2:38 states you SHALL receive, it does not mean instantly. This is confirmed in various detailed conversation accounts. Scripture reveals, over and over, that both water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost are necessary. The order in which the experiences take place does not matter.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
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So not one was ever saved by the law. But we in the nt have to obey Gods new commands?

Does anyone else see the flaw in this logic?
Salvation is by grace THROUGH faith. Obedient faith is not works of the law.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Salvation is by grace THROUGH faith. Obedient faith is not works of the law.
Washing in water is required before entering the tabernacle or temple of God.

It is written in the laws of Moses.So yes,it is the works of the law.


Exodus 30
17 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

18 Thou shalt also make a laver of brass, and his foot also of brass, to wash withal: and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein.

19 For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat:

20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the Lord:

21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.





John 13

13 It was just before the Passover Festival. Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.

2 The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had already prompted Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus. 3 Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God; 4 so he got up from the meal, took off his outer clothing, and wrapped a towel around his waist. 5 After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples’ feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him.

6 He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”

7 Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.”

8 “No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.”

Jesus answered, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.”

9 “Then, Lord,” Simon Peter replied, “not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!”

10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.” 11 For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean.




7 Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.”



John 14
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,481
695
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Washing in water is required before entering the tabernacle or temple of God.

It is written in the laws of Moses.So yes,it is the works of the law.


Exodus 30
17 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

18 Thou shalt also make a laver of brass, and his foot also of brass, to wash withal: and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein.

19 For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat:

20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the Lord:

21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.





John 13

13 It was just before the Passover Festival. Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.

2 The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had already prompted Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus. 3 Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God; 4 so he got up from the meal, took off his outer clothing, and wrapped a towel around his waist. 5 After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples’ feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him.

6 He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”

7 Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.”

8 “No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.”

Jesus answered, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.”

9 “Then, Lord,” Simon Peter replied, “not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!”

10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.” 11 For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean.




7 Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.”



John 14
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
The Pharisees had all the outward appearances of devout followers of God. They knew the OT better than any here, yet their heart’s were not right.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Salvation is by grace THROUGH faith. Obedient faith is not works of the law.
As soon as you say "obedient" faith, you "add" obedience/works which "follows" having been saved by grace through faith, not works, to salvation by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) You try to "shoehorn" works "into" salvation through faith, not works, but the shoe does not fit. It's not simply specific works of the law that do not save but works in general. (Romans 4:5-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)