The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?
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Unfortunately many are willfully dismissive of that context showing exactly who the every person is. Also in the 13 th Chapter of that book its plain that Christ tasted death for His Sheep since He rose as the Shepherd of the Sheep
Heb 13:20
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
So its only scriptural and reasonable and honest that the very man in Heb 2:9 are the Sheep !
Heb 13:20
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
So its only scriptural and reasonable and honest that the very man in Heb 2:9 are the Sheep !
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It the death of Christ, for those He died, He through His death redeemed them from all iniquity Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Hence, none for whom He died can be of these here Matt 7:23
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Christ could never say those words to them He gave Himself for and redeemed them from all iniquity, for they have no iniquity to work ! 61
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Hence, none for whom He died can be of these here Matt 7:23
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Christ could never say those words to them He gave Himself for and redeemed them from all iniquity, for they have no iniquity to work ! 61
what I see is that the many sons spoken of in Heb 2:10 does not negate the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ died for every man, woman and child who is a descendant of Adam (Heb 2:9).
Hebrews 2:
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
The death of the Lord Jesus Christ is a more than sufficient sacrifice/offering for all mankind ... all descendants of Adam. However, only the many sons who make the Lord Jesus Christ the captain of their salvation are brought unto glory.
There is only One Offering whereby descendants of Adam are saved ... there is only One Mediator between God and descendants of Adam ... the Lord Jesus Christ.
the text itself defines the many sons (vs 10) who are brought unto glory as the seed of Abraham.
Please provide the post submitted by me wherein I stated "the unsaved people who descend from Adam" are described as the sanctified, brethren many sons, the church, The children which God has given me, the seed of Abraham.
I never stated what you claim ...
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Hebrews 2:
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
The death of the Lord Jesus Christ is a more than sufficient sacrifice/offering for all mankind ... all descendants of Adam. However, only the many sons who make the Lord Jesus Christ the captain of their salvation are brought unto glory.
There is only One Offering whereby descendants of Adam are saved ... there is only One Mediator between God and descendants of Adam ... the Lord Jesus Christ.
the text itself defines the many sons (vs 10) who are brought unto glory as the seed of Abraham.
Please provide the post submitted by me wherein I stated "the unsaved people who descend from Adam" are described as the sanctified, brethren many sons, the church, The children which God has given me, the seed of Abraham.
I never stated what you claim ...
.
Scripture is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world ... all descendants of Adam ...
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
... after reading your Post 2823, I was hoping you had finally decided you were interested in reading verses within the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them ... then in the very next post you submitted, you jumped right back in to your usual pattern ...
Let's read some verses before the verse you ripped from its context:
Titus 2:
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
vs 11 – God's grace brings salvation and God's grace has appeared to all men ... all descendants of Adam.
vs 12 – God's grace teaches us ... trains us ... to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and teaches us ... trains us ... to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world.
vs 13 – we are expectantly awaiting the glorious appearing of the great God and our savior Jesus Christ.
vs 14 – it is the Lord Jesus Christ Who gave Himself for us ... the Lord Jesus Christ redeems from all iniquity those who believe in Him. Out of the "all men" to whom God's grace has appeared (vs 11), only those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are redeemed.
The believer is redeemed from all iniquity after he or she believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and is born again ... then the believer is purified ... then the believer is zealous of good works.
you really should read the full sermon the Lord Jesus Christ taught the people ... from Matthew 5:1 through Matthew 7:29. However, it appears you prefer not to read verses within the context ... so at the very least, let's include vss 21 and 22 when reading vs 23:
Matthew 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
vs 21 – some folks sitting in churches believe they are born again believers; however, this section of Scripture tells us this is not so. Only those who do the will of the Father in heaven will enter into the kingdom of heaven. The will of the Father is to believe on Him Whom the Father has sent.
vs 22 – some folks who think they're born again will stand before the judgment seat and claim the works they have done in the name of the Lord.
vs 23 – Jesus will send them away telling them He never knew them.
... brightfame52, prior to being born again (if you are born again), you were just as steeped in iniquity as every other descendant of Adam ... notwithstanding your claim that you are "elect" and, therefore, "born justified" so "sins can't be imputed or charged to" you.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
... after reading your Post 2823, I was hoping you had finally decided you were interested in reading verses within the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them ... then in the very next post you submitted, you jumped right back in to your usual pattern ... Let's read some verses before the verse you ripped from its context:
Titus 2:
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
vs 11 – God's grace brings salvation and God's grace has appeared to all men ... all descendants of Adam.
vs 12 – God's grace teaches us ... trains us ... to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and teaches us ... trains us ... to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world.
vs 13 – we are expectantly awaiting the glorious appearing of the great God and our savior Jesus Christ.
vs 14 – it is the Lord Jesus Christ Who gave Himself for us ... the Lord Jesus Christ redeems from all iniquity those who believe in Him. Out of the "all men" to whom God's grace has appeared (vs 11), only those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are redeemed.
The believer is redeemed from all iniquity after he or she believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and is born again ... then the believer is purified ... then the believer is zealous of good works.
you really should read the full sermon the Lord Jesus Christ taught the people ... from Matthew 5:1 through Matthew 7:29. However, it appears you prefer not to read verses within the context ... so at the very least, let's include vss 21 and 22 when reading vs 23:
Matthew 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
vs 21 – some folks sitting in churches believe they are born again believers; however, this section of Scripture tells us this is not so. Only those who do the will of the Father in heaven will enter into the kingdom of heaven. The will of the Father is to believe on Him Whom the Father has sent.
vs 22 – some folks who think they're born again will stand before the judgment seat and claim the works they have done in the name of the Lord.
vs 23 – Jesus will send them away telling them He never knew them.
... brightfame52, prior to being born again (if you are born again), you were just as steeped in iniquity as every other descendant of Adam ... notwithstanding your claim that you are "elect" and, therefore, "born justified" so "sins can't be imputed or charged to" you.READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
So, you already see it is not everyman, or everyone, so let's read with that in mind
You had a very nice quote from Spurgeon which I totally agree with, I love Spurgeon and His wisdom! But if you do not mind, let 's stay focused on this section; I will bolden the portions of this section that highlight and define the "everyone"
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one:
for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren,
in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
The words here for "he took on" was used when Peter had been walking on the water, and began to sink, Jesus reached out and Took hold of Him
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Why did I take time to lay this out?Because it defines the objects of Jesus Covenant work on the cross!
You suggested from vs,9 that it was the seed of Adam, but the text itself defines it as the seed of Abraham.
That tells us it was a Covenant death based on the promises made in the Abrahamic Covenant.
Everything bolded in red, cannot be true of the unsaved people who descend from Adam,
In other words they cannot be described as;
the sanctified, brethren many sons, the church, The children which God has given me, the seed of Abraham.
Hope this is helpful!
You had a very nice quote from Spurgeon which I totally agree with, I love Spurgeon and His wisdom! But if you do not mind, let 's stay focused on this section; I will bolden the portions of this section that highlight and define the "everyone"
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one:
for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren,
in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
The words here for "he took on" was used when Peter had been walking on the water, and began to sink, Jesus reached out and Took hold of Him
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Why did I take time to lay this out?Because it defines the objects of Jesus Covenant work on the cross!
You suggested from vs,9 that it was the seed of Adam, but the text itself defines it as the seed of Abraham.
That tells us it was a Covenant death based on the promises made in the Abrahamic Covenant.
Everything bolded in red, cannot be true of the unsaved people who descend from Adam,
In other words they cannot be described as;
the sanctified, brethren many sons, the church, The children which God has given me, the seed of Abraham.
Hope this is helpful!
Christ's Covenantal Death, opens the eyes of the blind !
Did you know that one of the purposes and residual effects of Christ's Death for all whom He died is that they will have spiritual eyes open ? Isa 42:6-7
I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; See Rom 8:32
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Gods elect are by nature spiritually blind, but Christ's death for them effects an opening of their spiritually blind eyes. Jesus said once that His purpose for coming was Judgment, observe Jn 9:39
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that[hina of purpose] they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Thats why He says His Fathers Will was this Jn 6:40
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Believing on Him accompanies the seeing of Him, and this was the result and the will of Him that sent Him, that gave Him to be a Covenant of the People, the People of the Elect or His Sheep, or His Body the Church!
Did you know that one of the purposes and residual effects of Christ's Death for all whom He died is that they will have spiritual eyes open ? Isa 42:6-7
I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; See Rom 8:32
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Gods elect are by nature spiritually blind, but Christ's death for them effects an opening of their spiritually blind eyes. Jesus said once that His purpose for coming was Judgment, observe Jn 9:39
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that[hina of purpose] they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Thats why He says His Fathers Will was this Jn 6:40
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Believing on Him accompanies the seeing of Him, and this was the result and the will of Him that sent Him, that gave Him to be a Covenant of the People, the People of the Elect or His Sheep, or His Body the Church!
Scripture is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world ... all descendants of Adam ...
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
... after reading your Post 2823, I was hoping you had finally decided you were interested in reading verses within the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them ... then in the very next post you submitted, you jumped right back in to your usual pattern ...
Let's read some verses before the verse you ripped from its context:
Titus 2:
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
vs 11 – God's grace brings salvation and God's grace has appeared to all men ... all descendants of Adam.
vs 12 – God's grace teaches us ... trains us ... to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and teaches us ... trains us ... to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world.
vs 13 – we are expectantly awaiting the glorious appearing of the great God and our savior Jesus Christ.
vs 14 – it is the Lord Jesus Christ Who gave Himself for us ... the Lord Jesus Christ redeems from all iniquity those who believe in Him. Out of the "all men" to whom God's grace has appeared (vs 11), only those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are redeemed.
The believer is redeemed from all iniquity after he or she believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and is born again ... then the believer is purified ... then the believer is zealous of good works.
you really should read the full sermon the Lord Jesus Christ taught the people ... from Matthew 5:1 through Matthew 7:29. However, it appears you prefer not to read verses within the context ... so at the very least, let's include vss 21 and 22 when reading vs 23:
Matthew 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
vs 21 – some folks sitting in churches believe they are born again believers; however, this section of Scripture tells us this is not so. Only those who do the will of the Father in heaven will enter into the kingdom of heaven. The will of the Father is to believe on Him Whom the Father has sent.
vs 22 – some folks who think they're born again will stand before the judgment seat and claim the works they have done in the name of the Lord.
vs 23 – Jesus will send them away telling them He never knew them.
... brightfame52, prior to being born again (if you are born again), you were just as steeped in iniquity as every other descendant of Adam ... notwithstanding your claim that you are "elect" and, therefore, "born justified" so "sins can't be imputed or charged to" you.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
... after reading your Post 2823, I was hoping you had finally decided you were interested in reading verses within the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them ... then in the very next post you submitted, you jumped right back in to your usual pattern ... Let's read some verses before the verse you ripped from its context:
Titus 2:
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
vs 11 – God's grace brings salvation and God's grace has appeared to all men ... all descendants of Adam.
vs 12 – God's grace teaches us ... trains us ... to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and teaches us ... trains us ... to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world.
vs 13 – we are expectantly awaiting the glorious appearing of the great God and our savior Jesus Christ.
vs 14 – it is the Lord Jesus Christ Who gave Himself for us ... the Lord Jesus Christ redeems from all iniquity those who believe in Him. Out of the "all men" to whom God's grace has appeared (vs 11), only those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are redeemed.
The believer is redeemed from all iniquity after he or she believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and is born again ... then the believer is purified ... then the believer is zealous of good works.
you really should read the full sermon the Lord Jesus Christ taught the people ... from Matthew 5:1 through Matthew 7:29. However, it appears you prefer not to read verses within the context ... so at the very least, let's include vss 21 and 22 when reading vs 23:
Matthew 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
vs 21 – some folks sitting in churches believe they are born again believers; however, this section of Scripture tells us this is not so. Only those who do the will of the Father in heaven will enter into the kingdom of heaven. The will of the Father is to believe on Him Whom the Father has sent.
vs 22 – some folks who think they're born again will stand before the judgment seat and claim the works they have done in the name of the Lord.
vs 23 – Jesus will send them away telling them He never knew them.
... brightfame52, prior to being born again (if you are born again), you were just as steeped in iniquity as every other descendant of Adam ... notwithstanding your claim that you are "elect" and, therefore, "born justified" so "sins can't be imputed or charged to" you.READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
@reneweddaybyday
Then you reading into the text that which isnt there. Context shows us that the every one is Identified as the seed of Abraham He tasted death for, everyone of them Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation [by death] for the sins of the people.
The words " he took on" is the greek epilambanomai :
Vs17 says to make by the taste of death reconciliation for the sins, of not all mankind, but "the people" with the definite article
ὅθεν ὤφειλεν κατὰ πάντα τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς ὁμοιωθῆναι ἵνα ἐλεήμων γένηται καὶ πιστὸς ἀρχιερεὺς τὰ πρὸς τὸν θεόν εἰς τὸ ἱλάσκεσθαι τὰς ἁμαρτίας τοῦ λαοῦ
Definite article fpr specific sins and specific people !
Then you reading into the text that which isnt there. Context shows us that the every one is Identified as the seed of Abraham He tasted death for, everyone of them Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation [by death] for the sins of the people.
The words " he took on" is the greek epilambanomai :
- to lay hold of or to seize upon anything with the hands, to take hold of, lay hold of
- metaph. to rescue one from peril, to help, succour
Vs17 says to make by the taste of death reconciliation for the sins, of not all mankind, but "the people" with the definite article
ὅθεν ὤφειλεν κατὰ πάντα τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς ὁμοιωθῆναι ἵνα ἐλεήμων γένηται καὶ πιστὸς ἀρχιερεὺς τὰ πρὸς τὸν θεόν εἰς τὸ ἱλάσκεσθαι τὰς ἁμαρτίας τοῦ λαοῦ
Definite article fpr specific sins and specific people !
Christ's Covenantal Death, opens the eyes of the blind !2
The Opening of the blind eyes here in Isa 42:7 is not speaking of regular physical blindness, but a spiritual blindness of the mind as per Eph 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
This is important because true conversion must and does believe with the heart Rom 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
But not possible if in our native blindness of heart.
Man cant believe the Gospel with a blinded mind 2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
In fact being in that condition is being in a lost condition.
Now that this opening of blind eyes has to do with bringing them to Faith or Believing is confirmed by the next phrase as to what the Covenant Death of Christ Effects, Isa 42:7
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Now what meaneth this "to bring out the prisoners from the prison" ? Why its the prison of unbelief ! 61
The Opening of the blind eyes here in Isa 42:7 is not speaking of regular physical blindness, but a spiritual blindness of the mind as per Eph 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
This is important because true conversion must and does believe with the heart Rom 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
But not possible if in our native blindness of heart.
Man cant believe the Gospel with a blinded mind 2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
In fact being in that condition is being in a lost condition.
Now that this opening of blind eyes has to do with bringing them to Faith or Believing is confirmed by the next phrase as to what the Covenant Death of Christ Effects, Isa 42:7
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Now what meaneth this "to bring out the prisoners from the prison" ? Why its the prison of unbelief ! 61
Christ's Covenantal Death, opens the eyes of the blind !3
Isa 42:7
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
This is the prison house of unbelief ! Paul writing to the Romans Chapter 11, speaking of both jew and gentile elect writes this Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
In Gods Purpose of Mercy for the Elect both of the jews and gentiles He concluded them in unbelief. What does the word concluded mean ? Its the greek word sygkleiō and means
The word is used here as shutting of a prison Acts 5:23
Saying, The prison truly found we shut with all safety, and the keepers standing without before the doors: but when we had opened, we found no man within.
The Elect as well as all men by nature are imprisoned in Unbelief !
However the Death of Christ effects a bringing out of the prison of unbelief for the Elect !
Isa 42:7
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
This is the prison house of unbelief ! Paul writing to the Romans Chapter 11, speaking of both jew and gentile elect writes this Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
In Gods Purpose of Mercy for the Elect both of the jews and gentiles He concluded them in unbelief. What does the word concluded mean ? Its the greek word sygkleiō and means
to shut up together, enclose
of a shoal of fishes in a net
- to shut up on all sides, shut up completely
The word is used here as shutting of a prison Acts 5:23
Saying, The prison truly found we shut with all safety, and the keepers standing without before the doors: but when we had opened, we found no man within.
The Elect as well as all men by nature are imprisoned in Unbelief !
However the Death of Christ effects a bringing out of the prison of unbelief for the Elect !
@Iconoclast ... the only difference between what you submitted in Post 2827 and what you submitted in Post 2822 is that you did not include the first sentence from 2822 in Post 2827.
I replied to Post 2822 here.
If all you're going to do in the discussion is regurgitate your previous post which I have already responded to, there is nothing further to discuss.
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I replied to Post 2822 here.
If all you're going to do in the discussion is regurgitate your previous post which I have already responded to, there is nothing further to discuss.
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first of all, every descendant of Adam is born "spiritually blind" so your "elect" are included in the whole of the pool of humanity before birth and at birth.
secondly, the only thing that will open "spiritually blind eyes" is for descendants of Adam to believe in God's provision for sin ... the Lord Jesus Christ:
Romans 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
... many saw Him and did not believe so your claim here is false.
only those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are saved ... as it is written, the just shall live by faith
Romans 1:
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein [the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
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secondly, the only thing that will open "spiritually blind eyes" is for descendants of Adam to believe in God's provision for sin ... the Lord Jesus Christ:
Romans 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
... many saw Him and did not believe so your claim here is false.only those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are saved ... as it is written, the just shall live by faith
Romans 1:
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein [the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
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Hebrews 2:9 in its context:
Hebrews 2:
6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
vss 6-8 are quoted from Psalm 8. When God first created mankind, God gave mankind dominion over the earth. You can read about mankind's dominon over the earth in Genesis 1. Due to the fall, Heb 2:8 further tells us now we see not yet all things put under him (mankind ... descendants of Adam).
vs 9 ... we see Jesus crowned with glory and honor that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man (mankind ... descendants of Adam) referred to in vs 8.
so we see that in the context "every man" refers to mankind in general ... descendants of Adam ...
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Hebrews 2:
6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
vss 6-8 are quoted from Psalm 8. When God first created mankind, God gave mankind dominion over the earth. You can read about mankind's dominon over the earth in Genesis 1. Due to the fall, Heb 2:8 further tells us now we see not yet all things put under him (mankind ... descendants of Adam).
vs 9 ... we see Jesus crowned with glory and honor that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man (mankind ... descendants of Adam) referred to in vs 8.
so we see that in the context "every man" refers to mankind in general ... descendants of Adam ...
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From Barnes' Notes on the Bible:
The Lord Jesus Christ healed physical blindness as well ... that was one of the "signs" to the children of Israel that He was Messiah.
While John Baptist was in prison and before John was beheaded (Matt 14:1-12), he sent disciples to Jesus to ask if He was Messiah:
Matthew 11:
2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
Those who are not offended in the Lord Jesus Christ receive the blessing promised in God's Word.
please note that Romans 10:10 states a person believes ... then righteousness follows.
Here is Romans 10:10 from the Amplified version:
For with the heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God), and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [his] salvation.
... sin is the prison from which the born again one is delivered.
Romans 6:
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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To open the blind eyes - This is equivalent to saying that he would impart instruction to those who were ignorant. It relates to the Jews as well as to the Gentiles. He would acquaint them with God, and with the way of salvation. The condition of the world is often represented as one of darkness and blindness. Men see not their true character; they see not their real condition; they are ignorant of God, and of the truths pertaining to their future existence; and they need, therefore, some one who shall enlighten, and sanctify, and save them.
To bring out the prisoners from the prison - (Compare Isaiah 61:1-2). This evidently refers to a spiritual deliverance, though the language is derived from deliverance from a prison. It denotes that he would rescue those who were confined in mental darkness by sin; and that their deliverance from the thraldom and darkness of sin would be as wonderful as if a prisoner should be delivered suddenly from a dark cell, and be permitted to go forth and breathe the pure air of freedom. Such is the freedom which the gospel imparts; nor can there be a more striking description of its happy effects on the minds and hearts of darkened and wretched people (compare 1 Peter 2:9).
The Lord Jesus Christ healed physical blindness as well ... that was one of the "signs" to the children of Israel that He was Messiah.
While John Baptist was in prison and before John was beheaded (Matt 14:1-12), he sent disciples to Jesus to ask if He was Messiah:
Matthew 11:
2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
Those who are not offended in the Lord Jesus Christ receive the blessing promised in God's Word.
please note that Romans 10:10 states a person believes ... then righteousness follows.
Here is Romans 10:10 from the Amplified version:
For with the heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God), and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [his] salvation.
... sin is the prison from which the born again one is delivered.Romans 6:
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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again, the prison from which the born again ones are delivered is sin.
unbelief is due either to (1) ignorance or (2) rejection.
ignorance is due to not having heard the Word of God at all or not having been taught the rightly divided Word of God.
rejection of the truth of God's Word is due to the hearer rejecting the truth of the rightly divided Word of God ... iow, the one who rejects the truth suppresses the truth in unrighteousness as shown in Rom 1:18.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness
The words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress; hold back; restrain. When the Word of God is spoken, the hearer restrains the truth from reaching his/her heart.
... "jew and gentile elect" ... fyi, brightfame52, Romans 11:32 refers to all mankind ... all descendants of Adam.
Steven Cole - Stand in Awe:
In Luke 17, there is a record wherein Jesus healed ten lepers who begged Him for mercy:
Luke 17:
11 And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.
12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
The Lord Jesus Christ showed mercy on all ten men ... all ten men were cleansed of their leprosy.
However, only one was made whole through his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
... the "Elect" (capital "E") is the Lord Jesus Christ ... do you really believe that the Lord Jesus Christ was ever "by nature ... imprisoned in Unbelief !" ???
your erroneous dogma is blasphemous ...
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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unbelief is due either to (1) ignorance or (2) rejection.
ignorance is due to not having heard the Word of God at all or not having been taught the rightly divided Word of God.
rejection of the truth of God's Word is due to the hearer rejecting the truth of the rightly divided Word of God ... iow, the one who rejects the truth suppresses the truth in unrighteousness as shown in Rom 1:18.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness
The words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress; hold back; restrain. When the Word of God is spoken, the hearer restrains the truth from reaching his/her heart.
... "jew and gentile elect" ... fyi, brightfame52, Romans 11:32 refers to all mankind ... all descendants of Adam. Steven Cole - Stand in Awe:
Paul is not saying (in 11:32) that God will save everyone. Rather, in the context Paul is looking at the broad sweep of history and God’s dealings with the Gentiles and the Jews as groups. He is saying that just as both groups were at various times cut off from God’s mercy because of their disobedience, so both groups will experience His mercy as history unfolds. This does not imply that every individual in each group will be saved, which would contradict what Paul says elsewhere, that some will come under eternal condemnation (2 Thess. 1:9; 2:12). So “mercy to all” means that just as God is now pouring out His mercy on the Gentiles as a group, so in the future He will pour out His mercy on the Jews as a group. He has designed and He controls all of history to display the glory of His mercy to sinners.
In Luke 17, there is a record wherein Jesus healed ten lepers who begged Him for mercy:
Luke 17:
11 And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.
12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
The Lord Jesus Christ showed mercy on all ten men ... all ten men were cleansed of their leprosy.
However, only one was made whole through his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
... the "Elect" (capital "E") is the Lord Jesus Christ ... do you really believe that the Lord Jesus Christ was ever "by nature ... imprisoned in Unbelief !" ???your erroneous dogma is blasphemous ...
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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nope ... I replied to your Post 2822 ... see Post 2825.
... rather than respond to Post 2825, you accuse me of ignorance ... which reveals a lack of maturity on the part of one who offers to "baby sit".
If you want to respond to Post 2825, fine ... we can continue the discussion.
If you don't want to respond to post 2825, that's fine as well ... the discussion is over ... no need for rudeness.
Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
It appears you like Spurgeon ... here is a quote you might enjoy:
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... rather than respond to Post 2825, you accuse me of ignorance ... which reveals a lack of maturity on the part of one who offers to "baby sit".If you want to respond to Post 2825, fine ... we can continue the discussion.
If you don't want to respond to post 2825, that's fine as well ... the discussion is over ... no need for rudeness.
Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
It appears you like Spurgeon ... here is a quote you might enjoy:
Undoubtedly, it is an evil thing for you to have anything that is corrupt in your heart, but it will not be mischievous to other people until it begins to come out; so, “let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth".
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