Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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maxamir

maxamir

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ThereRoseaLamb said:
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Hell is indeed full of people who rejected Jesus Christ and because every single person is born rejecting Christ, it is the greatest miracle this world has ever known that God would choose to save any by humbling Himself and coming into this world to be tempted in every way as we are yet without sin, who absolutely succeeded in His rescue mission to save those the Father had given Him by being killed by the will of God at the hands of evil men to pay the price they could never pay and satisfy that which an eternity in Hell could never do in His perfect, atoning, redeeming, substitutionary, propitiating sacrifice to secure for His people the forgiveness of sins and the guarantee of eternal life in imputing His perfect righteousness to them in His resurrection.

All who are humbled to not look to themselves but outside of themselves to their Creator and cry out to Him to grant to them by the power of the Holy Spirit, through the ministry of the true Gospel, a new heart to be able to obey His just command given to all to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ will indeed be saved by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ Jesus alone, as revealed in the Word of God alone and to the glory of God alone!
 
Mem

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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Rufus said:
There goes that MAN-CENTERED theology again! God condemns people to hell because all sin is infinitely offensive to an infinitely, loving, righteous and just God. God does all things for his own glory...not the glory of man!
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When we give God thanks, who gets the glory?
 
Magenta

Magenta

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PaulThomson said:
Do you understand that statement to mean, in its context, that only those who
have heard from the Father and learned from Him, will ever come to Jesus?
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I don't understand the intention of your question.

Could you clarify? Like, are you wondering if by man's choice alone, one could
come to God without God drawing them or enabling them or choosing them first?
 
P

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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Magenta said:
I don't understand the intention of your question.

Could you clarify? Like, are you wondering if by man's choice alone, one could
come to God without God drawing them or enabling them or choosing them first?
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If you are not able to understand the question, I won't trouble you by asking any more questions.
 
S

studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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John6
  • God sent His Son Jesus Christ
  • God's will = EVERY unbeliever who sees Jesus Christ and believes into Him have eternal life.
  • God's work = the unbelievers' belief in Jesus Christ
  • God draws unbelievers to Jesus Christ by teaching them
  • Jesus Christ commands unbelievers to work for the [spiritual] food that lasts for the purpose of [the] eternal life He gives
  • Jesus Christ says EVERY unbeliever who hears and learns from God comes to/believes into Jesus Christ
  • Lasting belief in Jesus Christ = God has granted the believer to His Son Jesus Christ
Looks to me like God the Father is working/teaching the Good News that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God so every unbeliever may believe and be given eternal life.

Looks to me like God the Son commands every unbeliever to work for - to hear and to learn - the spiritual food (His Words - the Good News God the Father is teaching), so they can be granted to Jesus Christ by God the Father and be given eternal life by His Son Jesus Christ.

Conceptually pretty simple.
 
R

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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studier said:
John6
  • God sent His Son Jesus Christ
  • God's will = EVERY unbeliever who sees Jesus Christ and believes into Him have eternal life.
  • God's work = the unbelievers' belief in Jesus Christ
  • God draws unbelievers to Jesus Christ by teaching them
  • Jesus Christ commands unbelievers to work for the [spiritual] food that lasts for the purpose of [the] eternal life He gives
  • Jesus Christ says EVERY unbeliever who hears and learns from God comes to/believes into Jesus Christ
  • Lasting belief in Jesus Christ = God has granted the believer to His Son Jesus Christ
Looks to me like God the Father is working/teaching the Good News that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God so every unbeliever may believe and be given eternal life.

Looks to me like God the Son commands every unbeliever to work for - to hear and to learn - the spiritual food (His Words - the Good News God the Father is teaching), so they can be granted to Jesus Christ by God the Father and be given eternal life by His Son Jesus Christ.

Conceptually pretty simple.
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But fools cannot do what is commanded of them; hence, the promises of Effectual Grace in the unconditional New Covenant that enables God's covenant people to fear him, know him, obey him, etc. This is the magnificent beauty of the NC, for by it God rescues his helpless covenant again, as he did during the Exodus.

Pretty simple to understand...
 
Genez

Genez

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Oct 12, 2017
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Rufus said:
No need to do that. Neither of your feet are touching this planet. You obviously live in a cloud.
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Yes, I admit it.
I think about the Rapture.
Sure. But I can wait for it.

It will be glorious for those who now learn to love Him.
Meeting Him in the clouds!

But, do you love Him?
Do you love the Word of God? (John 1:1)

Or, do you just love to use the Word to feed your ego?
 
Genez

Genez

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Magenta said:
I don't understand the intention of your question.

Could you clarify? Like, are you wondering if by man's choice alone, one could
come to God without God drawing them or enabling them or choosing them first?
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Its not by man's choice alone.

And, what's wrong for choosing to love God when revealing his essence while drawing you?

We do not choose to be saved.
We did not even know what that means until after we are saved and are taught some doctrine.

God simply sees souls loving Him while drawing Him. Those He chooses!
God also sees souls hating Him while drawing them....

The drawing is offered to all men.
 
J

JJoseph

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Jan 6, 2024
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Jesus Christ died for all. He loves all and wants to save all. He is not willing that any should perish. Limited Atonement is false.

"He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world."(1 John 2:2)
 
Magenta

Magenta

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PaulThomson said:
You don't need to know the intention of the question to answer the question. You can answer the question without knowing the intention.
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Well that is contradictory because first you ask me about context and now you're telling me to ignore context/ saying it is not important. Which is it?
 
R

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Genez said:
Its not by man's choice alone.

And, what's wrong for choosing to love God when revealing his essence while drawing you?

We do not choose to be saved.
We did not even know what that means until after we are saved and are taught some doctrine.

God simply sees souls loving Him while drawing Him. Those He chooses!
God also sees souls hating Him while drawing them....

The drawing is offered to all men.[/QUOTE]

If that's the case then the entire world in the distributive sense is saved. For Jesus himself said:

"all that come to me have life" (implied in Jn 5:40)

He also said, that whosoever comes to Him he will never drive away (Jn 6:37)

He also said that no one can come to him unless the Father has enabled him (Jn 6:65) TRANSLATE: Effectual Grace.

And Jesus also taught that nothing is impossible with God (Mk 10:27)

See...you didn't know you were a universalist, did you?
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J

JJoseph

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Jan 6, 2024
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Christ offered Salvation to all, even Judas. But only those who accept His offer of Salvation by their own free will in response to His Grace will actually be saved. One can choose to go to Hell by rejecting Grace. Or one can accept Grace and be saved.

But if Limited Atonement were true, then if Christ didn't die for you, there's actually nothing you can do about the fact that God positively predestined you to Eternal Torture in Hell when He created you, and He passed over dying for you on the Cross. Is that the God of the Bible, a God of Infinite Love? No, it is man's creation. Just imagine the torture you would feel if you knew Christ didn't die for you. And what applies to you applies to everyone. Christ died for everyone and made the salvation of everyone who wants to accept His offer possible. Therefore, if any refuse to be saved, it is their fault, not God's. But Limited Atonement comes close to making it out to be God's fault that people go to Hell, because God never gave them the chance/opportunity/possibility to be saved. It is a false doctrine and many Bible passages clearly teach against it.
 
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