The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[brightfame52]

The results of Christ death !

Another blessed result of the death of Christ according to the Covenant Suretyship engagement is to

Isa 42:7

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

All men by nature are in the prison house of spiritual darkness and unbelief. Paul when writing to the Church of rome wrote that all[jew and gentile] in the prison of unbelief Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Now even though this verse is speaking of Gods elect from amongst the jews and gentiles, its applicable ton the non elect too ! Now the word concluded is the greek word sygkleiō and means

1. to shut up together, enclose
   1. of a shoal of fishes in a net
2. to shut up on all sides, shut up completely
   
   b. to shup up on all sides, shut up completely; τινα εἰς τινα or τί, so to deliver one up to the power of a person or thing that he is completely shut in,
   
   By nature we are delivered up to the power of darkness and of satan Acts 2618
   
   To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Col 1:13

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

But now Christ death brings those He died for out of darkness and from the power of satan, and with that they are given Faith and become believers, that's a testimony to what Christ has done in delivering them from darkness and unbelief.

Thats why to say that one for whom Christ died can and does die in unbelief is to speak against, testify against Christ and His finished work !

 

[Iconoclast]

Ephesians 1 provides the "fashion" ...

Ephesians 1:12-13 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

you trusted after you heard the gospel of salvation;
you believed after you trusted;
you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise [i.e. born again] after you believed;

hear ... trust ... believe ... sealed ... and while we are not cognizant of any lapse of time between hear/trust/believe/sealed ... that is the sequence. I believe God ... I believe what He wrote in Eph 1:12-13.
.

I love when all you haters read eph 1 backwards starting at vs.13 as if election and predestination were not there before it...then make as if you do not have a man centered gospel.
Let me guess, you quote jn 1:12 also and ignore vs. 13

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The sealing of the Spirit isn't the indwelling of the Spirit. Seals are placed on the outside, not the inside.

Do you believe the sealing of the Spirit occurs at some time other than when the believer is born again?

The word "seal" in Ephesians 1:13 is translated from the Greek word sphragizō.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon definition of sphragizō as used in Ephesians 1:13:

τινα τῷ πνεύματι and ἐν τῷ πνεύματι, respecting God, who by the gift of the Holy Spirit indicates who are his, passive, Ephesians 1:13​

Below is from ISBE:

God by His Spirit indicates who are His, as the owner sets his seal on his property; and just as documents are sealed up until the proper time for opening them, so Christians are sealed up by the Holy Spirit "unto the day of redemption" (Eph 1:13; 4:30; 2 Cor 1:22). Ownership, security and authentication are implied in the words, "The firm foundation of God standeth, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his" (2 Tim 2:19). The seal of God on the foreheads of His servants (Rev 7:2-4) marks them off as His own, and guarantees their eternal security, whereas those that "have not the seal of God on their foreheads" (Rev 9:4) have no such guaranty.​

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

you haters

... more accusatory nonsense ...

Ephesians 4:

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

32And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
.

 

[Cameron143]

Do you believe the sealing of the Spirit occurs at some time other than when the believer is born again?

The word "seal" in Ephesians 1:13 is translated from the Greek word sphragizō.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon definition of sphragizō as used in Ephesians 1:13:

τινα τῷ πνεύματι and ἐν τῷ πνεύματι, respecting God, who by the gift of the Holy Spirit indicates who are his, passive, Ephesians 1:13​

Below is from ISBE:

God by His Spirit indicates who are His, as the owner sets his seal on his property; and just as documents are sealed up until the proper time for opening them, so Christians are sealed up by the Holy Spirit "unto the day of redemption" (Eph 1:13; 4:30; 2 Cor 1:22). Ownership, security and authentication are implied in the words, "The firm foundation of God standeth, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his" (2 Tim 2:19). The seal of God on the foreheads of His servants (Rev 7:2-4) marks them off as His own, and guarantees their eternal security, whereas those that "have not the seal of God on their foreheads" (Rev 9:4) have no such guaranty.​

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
.

The sealing or baptism of the Spirit can happen simultaneously to belief or can occur anytime afterwards. We see both in the book of Acts. And we find both today, but less often at the time of conversion today.
There is a lack of teaching in our time about the difference between the indwelling of the Spirit which occurs in every believer in the process of salvation that places an individual into the body of Christ, and the baptism of the Spirit that is an outward sign to the believer and an assurance to the individual that they indeed belong to God.
There is a great book on this subject by Martyn Lloyd Jones called Joy Unspeakable that I would encourage everyone to read.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The sealing or baptism of the Spirit can happen simultaneously to belief or can occur anytime afterwards. We see both in the book of Acts. And we find both today, but less often at the time of conversion today.
There is a lack of teaching in our time about the difference between the indwelling of the Spirit which occurs in every believer in the process of salvation that places an individual into the body of Christ, and the baptism of the Spirit that is an outward sign to the believer and an assurance to the individual that they indeed belong to God.

I believe a person is sealed with the Holy Spirit the moment he or she believes the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

We were "sealed" – Greek sphragízō – to seal (affix) with a signet ring or other instrument to stamp (a roller or seal), i.e. to attest ownership, authorizing (validating) what is sealed.

The "earnest" – Greek arrhabṓn – a deposit ("down-payment") which guarantees the balance (the full purchase-price). arrhabṓn ("down-payment pledge") is the regular term in NT times for "earnest-money," i.e. advance-payment that guarantees the rest will be given. (arrhabṓn) then represents full security backed by the purchaser who supplies sufficient proof they will fulfill the entire pledge (promise).

When the believer is born again, the Holy Spirit within is the sphragízō attesting to ownership. The born again one belongs to the Purchaser the moment he or she is born again ... not sometime later.

The Holy Spirit within is also the arrhabṓn which represents the full security backed by the Purchaser Who supplies sufficient proof that the entire pledge will be fulfilled. The born again one has an eternal inheritance ... what we have received in our day and time is only a portion. We are assured that our eternal inheritance is secured.
.

 

[Cameron143]

I believe a person is sealed with the Holy Spirit the moment he or she believes the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

We were "sealed" – Greek sphragízō – to seal (affix) with a signet ring or other instrument to stamp (a roller or seal), i.e. to attest ownership, authorizing (validating) what is sealed.

The "earnest" – Greek arrhabṓn – a deposit ("down-payment") which guarantees the balance (the full purchase-price). arrhabṓn ("down-payment pledge") is the regular term in NT times for "earnest-money," i.e. advance-payment that guarantees the rest will be given. (arrhabṓn) then represents full security backed by the purchaser who supplies sufficient proof they will fulfill the entire pledge (promise).

When the believer is born again, the Holy Spirit within is the sphragízō attesting to ownership. The born again one belongs to the Purchaser the moment he or she is born again ... not sometime later.

The Holy Spirit within is also the arrhabṓn which represents the full security backed by the Purchaser Who supplies sufficient proof that the entire pledge will be fulfilled. The born again one has an eternal inheritance ... what we have received in our day and time is only a portion. We are assured that our eternal inheritance is secured.
.

So back to my original post...a seal goes on the outside, not the inside. These are 2 separate operations. The first is done by the Spirit. The second is done by Jesus.

He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire...Matthew 3:11.

The outward manifestation of the Holy Spirit, like on the day of Pentecost and subsequently throughout the book of Acts, is the baptism or outpouring of the Spirit foretold by Joel and Matthew.

 

[Magenta]

I believe a person is sealed with the Holy Spirit the moment he or she
believes the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your
salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is
the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 1:13-14

 

[brightfame52]

It gathers in the Sheep, the Elect, or the Children of God !

This is something religionist dont understand about the atoning death of Christ. Its the effective means by which all of Gods children are gathered unto Him. Ps 147:2

2 The Lord doth build up Jerusalem: he gathereth together the outcasts of Israel.

I believe this scripture does also apply to a spiritual jerusalem and israel, the Church of Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ does the gathering Isa 49:5

And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

Jn 11:51-52

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;


52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Jesus dying is in connection with His gathering together of Gods elect, the children of God.

Gen 49:10

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh[Jesus] come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

This gathering is also equivalent to bringing about obedience to the One gathering.

Eph 1:10

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

1 Peter 3:18

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring[gather] us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit 65

 

[fredoheaven]

"fredoheaven,


.No, you have this all wrong.The text clearly says, the natural man CANNOT receive the things of the Spirit of God.
There is nothing to dispute here. They CANNOT.



You error here, it is not complex but rather a simple fix.
1] The natural man CANNOT WELCOME TRUTH
2] The Father draws the natural man to Jesus
3]The drawing is effectual in that the Spirit quickens the dead sinner to life.
4]As the Spirit gives the natural man a new heart and indwells him, he by new birth is made a spiritual man.
5] I am listing this in numerical fashion, but it all happens simultaneously.
6] God transforms the dead sinner, to life.
7]The natural man is enabled to repent and believe the truth of the gospel, AS he is quickened from death to life.
8] Lazarus was dead, brought back to life, then came out of the tomb. He did not hop out first, then be made alive.
9] An all powerful God, is not a spectator waiting for spiritual corpses to come back to life ,all on their own.
10 ] dead men do not just believe savingly on their own.





.That would be a direct contradiction of scripture which is not happening.The text explains why the Spirit must indwell the person first.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God;
that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Nope. You are of course refuting yourself!
And this is how you justify yours. You haven’t even dealt yet with Acts 16:31, the Philippian Jailor in his natural state get saved by believing. Now let’s see how your error came to be.

• Point 1-2 is in contradiction using the Calvinistic approach. The dead men, natural man cannot receive the truth. However, It will be in harmony using biblical truths
• "1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting." The pattern is believe on him to life everlasting” I think what you are doing is more of a complex idea, while the biblical pattern is simple. You are the one who is making it complex.
• Point 3 This will again be contradictory to your claim. “The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God” The biblical truth will not be in contradiction but in harmony always, the demand to life everlasting is to believe on him. 1 Tim. 1:16
• Point 4. How? The natural man recieveth not the things of the Spirit of God. So you see how futile Calvinism is. It does not work well. How can a natural man indwell the unsaved, natural men? When the Holy Spirit resides, it means you are saved, you have eternal life by such belief in Christ. John 3:16
• Point 5 is irrelevant.
• Point 6 How? I bet you are using some biblical words they are not intended to be. Transformation as used in the Bible are those people who have already been saved Romans 12:1-2
• Point No. 7 is somewhat interesting the natural man gets enablement or should we say, the natural man can make a choice either receiving or rejecting the gospel truth Eph. 1:13
• Point 8 is more of resurrection not salvation as per context.
• Point 9. Who says all on their own? Such belief in Christ is upon hearing of the word. 1 Peter 1:23 “ Being born again…by the word of God…”
• Point 10 is your mere fabrication.

I like comparing spiritual things with spiritual. Paul spoke this to the Corinth believers to strengthen their faith something that these believers in Christ were operating in a carnal way 1 Cor. 3:3-4. Paul meant that carnality is against spirituality. Take note that Paul speaks of “Things (plural) of God” and not just talking about salvation here though he reminded of this thing for they already received. Again it says “know the things (plural) that are freely given to us…” which things (plural) etc.

So Paul is talking to the saved people at Corinth not to entangle with their natural estate which is against their spiritual standing. To know the “deep things (plural) of God” and not only the basic salvation and as they needed to grow. So the context is about the saved people not using carnality in approaching the things of God.



Now, the relation of regeneration to salvation is very well supported in the Bible. Titus 3:3-7 speaks very well of this.

 

[brightfame52]

@fredoheaven

You haven’t even dealt yet with Acts 16:31, the Philippian Jailor in his natural state get saved by believing. Now let’s see how your error came to be.

You haven't dealt with it either, you are assuming he was in a natural state, and you assume one gets saved by believing, nothing you have said is in the text.

Paul told the Phillipians that its given to believe on Jesus Christ Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So back to my original post...a seal goes on the outside, not the inside.

I believe the seal is an internal working ... the inward man spoken of in Scripture ... the new man ... the new creation we are at the time we are born again.

whether internal or external, the "sealing" takes place as shown in Ephesians 1:13 ... hear, trust, believe, sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

God does the sealing ... the seal certifies the believer is now owned by God and is no longer under the dominion of the adversary ... we belong to God the moment we are born again ... not at some later time.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

These are 2 separate operations. The first is done by the Spirit. The second is done by Jesus.

He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire...Matthew 3:11.

The outward manifestation of the Holy Spirit, like on the day of Pentecost and subsequently throughout the book of Acts, is the baptism or outpouring of the Spirit foretold by Joel and Matthew.

Found this in Pulpit Commentary:

Many explain this seal of baptism, which undoubtedly seals Christ and all his blessings to believers. But though the seal of the Holy Spirit may have been given in and with baptism, it is not identical with baptism. The impression of it is partly within believers and partly without. Within, it is the felt result of the working of the Holy Spirit - the feeling of satisfaction and delight in the work and person of Christ, of love, confidence, and joy flowing out toward God, and the desire and endeavor in all things to be conformed to his will. Without, it is the fruit of the Spirit, the new man, created in righteousness and holiness after the image of Christ. Within, the Spirit bears witness with their spirits; without, the transformed life corroborates the inward witness, and gives it to the world. The first is never complete without the second, nor the second without the first.​

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I love these verses in Ephesians ... they are so rich and God will absolutely bring His promises to pass.


Psalm 73:24-26 Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory. Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee. My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.
.

 

[Magenta]

I love these verses in Ephesians ... they are so rich and God will absolutely bring His promises to pass.

Psalm 73:24-26 Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory. Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee. My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.
.

Psalm 73:25-26

 

[Cameron143]

I believe the seal is an internal working ... the inward man spoken of in Scripture ... the new man ... the new creation we are at the time we are born again.

whether internal or external, the "sealing" takes place as shown in Ephesians 1:13 ... hear, trust, believe, sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

God does the sealing ... the seal certifies the believer is now owned by God and is no longer under the dominion of the adversary ... we belong to God the moment we are born again ... not at some later time.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.





Found this in Pulpit Commentary:

Many explain this seal of baptism, which undoubtedly seals Christ and all his blessings to believers. But though the seal of the Holy Spirit may have been given in and with baptism, it is not identical with baptism. The impression of it is partly within believers and partly without. Within, it is the felt result of the working of the Holy Spirit - the feeling of satisfaction and delight in the work and person of Christ, of love, confidence, and joy flowing out toward God, and the desire and endeavor in all things to be conformed to his will. Without, it is the fruit of the Spirit, the new man, created in righteousness and holiness after the image of Christ. Within, the Spirit bears witness with their spirits; without, the transformed life corroborates the inward witness, and gives it to the world. The first is never complete without the second, nor the second without the first.​

.

You don't understand what a seal is and does. A seal is meant to be seen. It authenticates what is inside.
When kings sent communications, they folded them and used a signet ring and wax to seal it. The receiver of the letter would know the communication was authentic. In like manner, when we are sealed by Christ, we are assured that the salvation He communicated to us is authentic.

 

[fredoheaven]

I believe the seal is an internal working ... the inward man spoken of in Scripture ... the new man ... the new creation we are at the time we are born again.

whether internal or external, the "sealing" takes place as shown in Ephesians 1:13 ... hear, trust, believe, sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

God does the sealing ... the seal certifies the believer is now owned by God and is no longer under the dominion of the adversary ... we belong to God the moment we are born again ... not at some later time.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.





Found this in Pulpit Commentary:

Many explain this seal of baptism, which undoubtedly seals Christ and all his blessings to believers. But though the seal of the Holy Spirit may have been given in and with baptism, it is not identical with baptism. The impression of it is partly within believers and partly without. Within, it is the felt result of the working of the Holy Spirit - the feeling of satisfaction and delight in the work and person of Christ, of love, confidence, and joy flowing out toward God, and the desire and endeavor in all things to be conformed to his will. Without, it is the fruit of the Spirit, the new man, created in righteousness and holiness after the image of Christ. Within, the Spirit bears witness with their spirits; without, the transformed life corroborates the inward witness, and gives it to the world. The first is never complete without the second, nor the second without the first.​

.

The seal is spiritual. What God sees is our heart, that makes it inside that can be manifested outside. Thanks am learning a lot.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You don't understand what a seal is and does. A seal is meant to be seen. It authenticates what is inside.
When kings sent communications, they folded them and used a signet ring and wax to seal it. The receiver of the letter would know the communication was authentic. In like manner, when we are sealed by Christ, we are assured that the salvation He communicated to us is authentic.

The seal also attests to ownership. I didn't just pull that definition out of my hat. I have provided you with Scriptural reference materials which state this truth.


At the time we are born again, God creates within the born again one the new man. The old man (who we were in Adam) is to be put off and the new man is to be put on ... see Ephesians 4:22-24 and Colossians 3:5-10.

As we mortify the deeds of the body (put off the old man) and put on the new man, we grow up and mature in that new creation. This doesn't happen overnight ... it takes time to mature from newborn babe in Christ where we feed on the milk of the Word (1 Peter 2:2) ... to the point where we are no longer tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive (Ephesians 4:14) and where we feed on strong meat, and by reason of use have the senses exercised to discern both good and evil (Hebrews 5:14).

This maturation process takes time and God works it from the inside out (Philippians 1:6).

It's not that we're born again ... left unsealed until we finally start seeing spiritual fruit exhibited in our lives. We're sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise the instant we're born again ... then as we grow and mature in the Lord Jesus Christ, we start seeing some of that spiritual fruit and we start desiring to have that in our lives rather than the works of the flesh.

That it takes time to mature in the Lord to the point where we start seeing some of the spiritual fruit does not mean we were not sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise the moment we were born again.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The seal is spiritual. What God sees is our heart, that makes it inside that can be manifested outside. Thanks am learning a lot.

yep ... the stony heart is replaced with the heart of flesh ...

and I'm learning a lot too!!! God is so good to us!!!

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

That is the heart in which the seal can be imprinted ...
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

... love it!!!
.

 

[Magenta]

... love it!!!
.

Thank you! Heh, I had trouble with the arm on that one... the arm on our right side is added and not quite right,
still, but when I tried moving it forward to have the figure outside the restraints of the outer frame (not the border)
her hand was way out of proportion LOL ... This was one of the last in my series of female figures on the left side of
the panel... Shortly after this I started designing with the woman on the right-hand side and concentrating more
on just a face rather than showing more of the body than the upper torso/shoulders and neck etc

My daughter had given me this laptop for Christmas in 2021 after her dad passed away and the HD went on the fritz
about six months after I got it, so I lost a lot of the working copies of the finished panels... everything after "J" .