There will be no Rapture!!!
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According to the Bible the "sleep" mentioned in thess 4:13 is a condition which a Christian can choose.
1Th 4:13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 5:6 ¶ Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
Rapture theory Refuted
Traditional Christian Doctrine has to be re-evaluated. Darby corrupted it.
1Th 4:13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 5:6 ¶ Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
Rapture theory Refuted
Traditional Christian Doctrine has to be re-evaluated. Darby corrupted it.
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The Bible agrees. Strongs Concordance 2215:Tares areof uncertain origin; darnel or false grain:
A tare is a grain of unknown origin, it is a bitter grain not suitable for consumption, but grows with wheat because of fertile soil.
John 10: 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
God almighty knows his sheep and will reject that which is not his.
Matthew 24:36-44 also states, 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of[f]heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what [g]hour your Lord is coming.43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what [h]hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
Noah's flood took the evil out of the world not the servants of God. Noah and his family were kept safe in the ark, having faith they would be saved by God's promise. Noahs family was on earth during the cleansing not take away.
I don't believe I'll lose salvation by having faith in God's word and to be patient.
Revelation also states,
The Lukewarm Church
14“And to the angel of the church [j]of the Laodiceans write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither[k]cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten.[l] Therefore be [m]zealous and repent. 20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
22“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ ”
If the believers have been taken by a pre tribulation rapture, why is Jesus revealing to John to warn believers being lukewarm?
Verse 19 speaks of overcoming. What are believers overcoming if they're not on earth?
I'm confident in the scriptures not a doctrine that came about in the 1830's.
A tare is a grain of unknown origin, it is a bitter grain not suitable for consumption, but grows with wheat because of fertile soil.
John 10: 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
God almighty knows his sheep and will reject that which is not his.
Matthew 24:36-44 also states, 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of[f]heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what [g]hour your Lord is coming.43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what [h]hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
Noah's flood took the evil out of the world not the servants of God. Noah and his family were kept safe in the ark, having faith they would be saved by God's promise. Noahs family was on earth during the cleansing not take away.
I don't believe I'll lose salvation by having faith in God's word and to be patient.
Revelation also states,
The Lukewarm Church
14“And to the angel of the church [j]of the Laodiceans write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither[k]cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten.[l] Therefore be [m]zealous and repent. 20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
22“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ ”
If the believers have been taken by a pre tribulation rapture, why is Jesus revealing to John to warn believers being lukewarm?
Verse 19 speaks of overcoming. What are believers overcoming if they're not on earth?
I'm confident in the scriptures not a doctrine that came about in the 1830's.
Return? Thats right....return.
If you rightly comprehend the Jewish wedding ritual, this fits perfectly into pre-trib rapture eschatology.
And of course the fact that Israelites are doing the preaching during the tribulation. That fits every prophetic statement Jesus made as well.
Luk 12:36 - And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
If you rightly comprehend the Jewish wedding ritual, this fits perfectly into pre-trib rapture eschatology.
And of course the fact that Israelites are doing the preaching during the tribulation. That fits every prophetic statement Jesus made as well.
Luk 12:36 - And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
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There’s no mention of the Church in Revelation beyond chapter 4. I think there’s a good reason for that.
There’s a really good documentary called ‘Before the Wrath’. The similarities between a Galilean wedding and the rapture of the church are quite astonishing. Well worth a watch if this subject interests you. Highly recommended.
There’s a really good documentary called ‘Before the Wrath’. The similarities between a Galilean wedding and the rapture of the church are quite astonishing. Well worth a watch if this subject interests you. Highly recommended.
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Two completely distinct Greek words for "sleep" in these two verses... check it out... (things that are different are not the same):
--"asleep / sleep" (1Th4:13,14,15) - H2837 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2837/kjv/tr/0-1/
--"sleep" (1Th5:6,10) - H2518 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2518/kjv/tr/0-1/
Besides being two distinct contexts:
--"those who sleep through Jesus" is the former CONTEXT;
--the latter context not referring to believers ("let us not sleep as do the rest which have no hope" [i.e. unbelievers]--"believers" DO have hope [a sure hope--per the biblical definition of "hope"]... now act like it, Paul is saying...)
So, as I see it... that is a poor argument (at least, not well-investigated).
Welcome to CC! Hope to see you around the boards! = )
--"asleep / sleep" (1Th4:13,14,15) - H2837 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2837/kjv/tr/0-1/
--"sleep" (1Th5:6,10) - H2518 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2518/kjv/tr/0-1/
Besides being two distinct contexts:
--"those who sleep through Jesus" is the former CONTEXT;
--the latter context not referring to believers ("let us not sleep as do the rest which have no hope" [i.e. unbelievers]--"believers" DO have hope [a sure hope--per the biblical definition of "hope"]... now act like it, Paul is saying...)
So, as I see it... that is a poor argument (at least, not well-investigated).
Welcome to CC! Hope to see you around the boards! = )
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While I agree that the resurrection of the saints will happen post-trib, I don't assume that God cannot and will not reveal new truths from his word as the centuries roll on. The test of biblical theories is whether they are consistent with scripture, not whether we have surviving records of other Christians believing them in earlier times.
No one is required to believe someone else's theories that they find unpersuasive.
No one is required to believe someone else's theories that they find unpersuasive.
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Two completely distinct Greek words for "sleep" in these two verses... check it out... (things that are different are not the same):
--"asleep / sleep" (1Th4:13,14,15) - H2837 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2837/kjv/tr/0-1/
--"sleep" (1Th5:6,10) - H2518 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2518/kjv/tr/0-1/
Besides being two distinct contexts:
--"those who sleep through Jesus" is the former CONTEXT;
--the latter context not referring to believers ("let us not sleep as do the rest which have no hope" [i.e. unbelievers]--"believers" DO have hope [a sure hope--per the biblical definition of "hope"]... now act like it, Paul is saying...)
So, as I see it... that is a poor argument (at least, not well-investigated).
Welcome to CC! Hope to see you around the boards! = )
--"asleep / sleep" (1Th4:13,14,15) - H2837 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2837/kjv/tr/0-1/
--"sleep" (1Th5:6,10) - H2518 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2518/kjv/tr/0-1/
Besides being two distinct contexts:
--"those who sleep through Jesus" is the former CONTEXT;
--the latter context not referring to believers ("let us not sleep as do the rest which have no hope" [i.e. unbelievers]--"believers" DO have hope [a sure hope--per the biblical definition of "hope"]... now act like it, Paul is saying...)
So, as I see it... that is a poor argument (at least, not well-investigated).
Welcome to CC! Hope to see you around the boards! = )
Eph 5:14
Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, G2518 and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
Th 5:7
For they that sleep G2518 sleep G2518 in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.