What Changed?

[Rufus]

Was Peter saved at the moment, born again?

The text doesn't say. Why don't you focus more on what it does teach? It's crystal clear to me that Peter was a recipient of a divine miracle. God revealed something very special to him that he hadn't revealed to other people. Judas would be a great example of the latter.

 

[Magenta]

Ephesians 2:1-3 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

 

[Magenta]

Not only this, but Jesus goes on to say that this would be the means by which He will grow His church.

Jesus: the greatest mason of all.

 

[Genez]

What Changed?
Assuming that you are a child of God, What was the event that resulted in this change?
All people are conceived in sin and are born children of wrath, unfit for any saving good, inclined to evil, dead in their sins, and slaves to sin; without the grace of the regenerating Holy Spirit they are neither willing nor able to return to God, to reform their distorted nature, or even to dispose themselves to such reform.

Something had to change
Did you overcome this condition in your own strength, or were you drawn to Christ by the power of the Spirit? If you were drawn, were you able to resist being drawn?

You do not even know you are being drawn when its happening.
We can only see that we were being drawn in retrospect after we are saved.

That is why men are free to reject if they should be so inclined.

 

[Rufus]

You do not even know you are being drawn when its happening.
We can only see that we were being drawn in retrospect after we are saved.

That is why men are free to reject if they should be so inclined.

So how does that change anything? I never knew that I once lived inside my mother's warm, dark womb for several months; but does that mean I wasn't really alive? Or that I wasn't growing?

 

[Genez]

So how does that change anything? I never knew that I once lived inside my mother's warm, dark womb for several months; but does that mean I wasn't really alive? Or that I wasn't growing?

Are you following the question I was answering to?

This is what I was addressing...

If you were drawn, were you able to resist being drawn?

Where you went to? I have no idea. Mind explaining?

 

[Rufus]

Are you following the question I was answering to?

This is what I was addressing...

If you were drawn, were you able to resist being drawn?

Where you went to? I have no idea. Mind explaining?

No, no one is able to resist God's effectual grace. Nothing is impossible with God (Lk 1:37; 18:27). No man can thwart God's purposes (Job 42:2)

Look at the example of Abimelech in Gen 20 when God restrained him from violating Sarah. First, Abimelech had no idea that he was being restrained. Accordingly, he took full credit for his good behavior toward her by bragging to God about the integrity of his heart; and God even agreed with the wicked king! But at the same time, God told the king what the ultimate reason was for that "integrity of heart", i..e "I wouldn't let you touch her!"

God is inscrutable and his ways are past finding out.

 

[PaulThomson]

God is inscrutable

And yet you also presume to explain them correctly to everyone else. Ironic really.

 

[Magenta]

John 5:24-25 ~ Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Have you not found it to be so? Only those who are either insensitive to God speaking
to them, or God has simply not spoken to them, say, God does not speak to people.

I thank God I heard when He spoke to me.

 

[Magenta]

Never mind that I was wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I eventually (not immediately!!!)
surrendered my life fully to Him, and it was such a relief to realize I no longer carried the
opposition to Him that I'd had all those years of running in unbelief, defiance, and rebellion.

Praise the Lord

 

[Rufus]

And yet you also presume to explain them correctly to everyone else. Ironic really.

I can explain what is clear. And I can also admit to God's inscrutability when a concise, clear biblical explanation is not readily available (Job 9:10). But you can do neither of these things.

 

[Rufus]

John 5:24-25 ~ Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Have you not found it to be so? Only those who are either insensitive to God speaking
to them, or God has simply not spoken to them, say, God does not speak to people.

I thank God I heard when He spoke to me.

And only then because He graciously gave you ears to hear. If only people could see that all of Christ's miracles involving physical healing go beyond that and all point to a greater spiritual healing. He opens the eyes of the blind so that they can see (understand), unstops the ears of the deaf so that they can hear his call, give strength to weak, lame legs so that they can walk straight in the narrow way that leads to life, loosens the tongues of the dumb so that they can cry out to him, raises the dead and frees them from their fear of death and grave, etc. But it seems so many just cannot see these greater spiritual realities.

 

[Magenta]

And only then because He graciously gave you ears to hear. If only people could see that all of Christ's miracles involving physical healing go beyond that and all point to a greater spiritual healing. He opens the eyes of the blind so that they can see (understand), unstops the ears of the deaf so that they can hear his call, give strength to weak, lame legs so that they can walk straight in the narrow way that leads to life, loosens the tongues of the dumb so that they can cry out to him, raises the dead and frees them from their fear of death and grave, etc. But it seems so many just cannot see these greater spiritual realities.

Indeed!!!

Isaiah 42:16 ~ I will lead the blind by a way they did not know; I will guide them on unfamiliar paths. I will turn darkness into light before them and rough places into level ground. These things I will do for them, and I will not forsake them.

Luke 4:18-19


How sad to have so many who call themselves Christians deny the very things Jesus said He would do.

 

[Genez]

No, no one is able to resist God's effectual grace. Nothing is impossible with God (Lk 1:37; 18:27). No man can thwart God's purposes (Job 42:2).

How much Calvinism have you been exposed to?

Romans One is a prime example of men having been drawn by God, and who rejected God after having God made real to them.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God ​

that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to ​

the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—​

a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: ​

“The righteous will live by faith.”​

​

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the ​

godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by ​

their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain ​

to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the ​

creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power ​

and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood ​

from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.​

​

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God ​

nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their​

foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, ​

they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal ​

God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds ​

and animals and reptiles.​

​

​

Calvinism was an attempt to make sense out of what it had not enough doctrine to check itself with.

 

[HeIsHere]

The text doesn't say. Why don't you focus more on what it does teach? It's crystal clear to me that Peter was a recipient of a divine miracle. God revealed something very special to him that he hadn't revealed to other people. Judas would be a great example of the latter.

Yes let us focus on what it teaches, which is not effectual grace or unconditional election and is NOT individual soteriological instead it is a very specific instance, much like other miracles that Christ Jesus performed as part of His ministry.
This miracle was for the benefit of others to accomplish the purposes of Jesus as He fulfilled His mission here on earth.

We are not in 30+ AD.
You need to see the function/reason of what Jesus does at that specific time and not make every verse about individual soteriology.

“Since the whole human race is blind and stubborn, those faults remain fixed in our nature until they are corrected by the grace of the Spirit, and that comes only from election. Two people may hear the same teaching together; yet one is willing to learn, and the other persists in his obstinacy. They do not differ in nature, but God illumines one and not the other.
John Calvin

Scripture states otherwise.

John 1:9-11: “There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.”

Here is a soteriological statement and note it does not state....."enabled/illuminated" to believe.

Romans 10:9-10 says that “if you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.”

 

[PaulThomson]

And only then because He graciously gave you ears to hear. If only people could see that all of Christ's miracles involving physical healing go beyond that and all point to a greater spiritual healing. He opens the eyes of the blind so that they can see (understand), unstops the ears of the deaf so that they can hear his call, give strength to weak, lame legs so that they can walk straight in the narrow way that leads to life, loosens the tongues of the dumb so that they can cry out to him, raises the dead and frees them from their fear of death and grave, etc. But it seems so many just cannot see these greater spiritual realities.

What are you saying? You believe that if they could see right now, God would get less glory over eternity, because you believe He has scripted every second of everyone's lives to maximise his glory. So, why are you lamenting/regretting that those who cannot see cannot see?

That seems inconsistent with your systematic theology.

 

[PaulThomson]

I can explain what is clear. And I can also admit to God's inscrutability when a concise, clear biblical explanation is not readily available (Job 9:10). But you can do neither of these things.

If you can do those things, you should start doing those things. It would make a refreshing change.

 

[Magenta]

John 1:9-11: “There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.”

Here is a soteriological statement and note it does not state....."enabled/illuminated" to believe.

Too bad for you it does not say every man is enlightened to the same degree, which you claim is unfair of God.

And since every man is enlightened and yet this enlightening is not salvic for all, what is it for, in your opinion?

 

[Genez]

Never mind that I was wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I eventually (not immediately!!!)
surrendered my life fully to Him, and it was such a relief to realize I no longer carried the
opposition to Him that I'd had all those years of running in unbelief, defiance, and rebellion.

Praise the Lord

Jesus was not some airbrushed looking frail hippy.

Sorry.. That kind of image used to make me (and others) mock Christianity as some pagan religion.

"Does not the very nature of things teach you that ​

if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him." ​

​

1 Corinthians 11:14​

That wrong image of Jesus had caused many a Hippy to have their excuse.

That long haired appearance for Jesus came from artists that had just come out of paganism, who thought that a
holy man was to look like their pagan priests they had grown up with. Which of many, were temple prostitutes.

Satan must have sneered and laughed when naïve believers accepted that kind of likeness.

I learned of how that look of Jesus came about by an Art Museum curator who gave a lecture at Williams College in
Williamstown, MA. It is one of the top schools in the country.

​

"Does not the very nature of things teach you that ​

if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him." ​

​

1 Corinthians 11:14​

I would rather not argue with the Word of God ......

​

"Does not the very nature of things teach you that ​

if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him." ​

​

So be it .......​

 

[Magenta]

Matthew 16:15-17