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Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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This is the problem. I've already supported one statement with a citation/source and you just waved it away as "fake news". You didn't address the info or anything, just declared it "fake" and nothing more.

So why would anyone provide more info to a person who reacts like that?
Because you can't fabricate information on publicly traded companies. It's a matter of public record.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
34,557
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Yo' @ZNP

That's very true. Unfortunately there's only one who knows the future.
I don't buy that. Gold has been a standard of wealth for six thousand years. We have gone through many collapses of empires without it losing its value. We also know that fiat currencies always end in collapse because man is corrupt and covetous. You give someone a printing press on which they can simply print money and that is what they will do. We also know that supply v. demand is a very simple concept. If Social Security were to buy up 20% of the world's available gold supply that would certainly impact supply and as a result the price will go up. These are simple, proven principles. Not speculation.

Sure, we can all look back today, just as the armchair quarterback can tell you exactly how the game should have been executed the day after the game.
Really, was there anyone who didn't know what was going on when the US government was using Social Security to fund their profligate spending?

Trust me on this please. No one in 1970 thought that gold would be $2500/oz in 2024.
Once again you are pushing pure baloney. My uncle told me in the 1970s that now that we are off the gold standard inflation would run wild and people should invest in gold. My neighbor said the same thing except he was talking about silver. My teacher in HS said the same thing. You are simply trying to rewrite history.

Look friend, it's easy, after the fact, to call the winner every time. BTW how much gold do you own? Gold was $36/oz in 1970 and it now stands at $2570/oz. Still a great return and had any of us known in 1970 that this would be, I'm sure we'd have all bought lots of gold. But future telling really is just a good guess for most of us.

God bless,
ted
On the contrary you are missing my point. My point was how hard it is to pick winners with the stock market. Gold is considered a "safe bet", a "sure thing" to hold its value. It won't skyrocket the way yahoo did at one point, but then it won't crash back to earth either. Social Security is not an account where anyone is going to be trading in and out of, so if you want to pick something that is sure to have value forty or fifty years later the only choice is a commodity like gold or land.
 

JayBird

Active member
Aug 15, 2024
521
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Because you can't fabricate information on publicly traded companies. It's a matter of public record.
So are jobs numbers, but you immediately waved them away when they were inconvenient.

But tell me, do you believe love of money is a sin?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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Then we certainly can't be prioritizing giving even more tax breaks to billionaires and mega corporations. It's not as if the last time Trump did that they cut prices or raised wages, right? They mostly just pocketed the extra money, so why do they need even more?
There is a very simple fix for anyone who is honest and doesn't want to scam people. All you need to do is eliminate all taxes and replace them with a simple sales tax. Granted the sales tax may be 40% of the cost of the item. But the cost to administer it and collect it would be far less than with all the other taxes. This would give manufacturing in the US a huge boost as the cost of items to manufacture would be 40% less so we could export them very competitively. All the workers in the factory would live in the US and purchase items in the US and the factory would also purchase raw materials. That is where we would get our tax revenue from. But our exports would skyrocket. Also, imports from China and other places would also have to pay the 40% sales tax. The result is that all other countries in order to compete would have to follow suit. We would not need tariffs, etc. A billionaire buying a yacht will need to pay tax on that, but if his net worth is tied up in a multi billion dollar business providing a million jobs, while he still drives a pickup truck that is twenty years old and lives in the same house his parents had, well then he would not have to pay anymore taxes than his neighbor.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
34,557
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So you won't be voting for Trump then, right?


Surely you're not going to try and say Trump is righteous, are you?
What is it with you that every single post has to be related to this election? You tell us you are a Christian and yet the only thing you talk about is an election between Trump and Harris.

Since I am not campaigning for either one I see no valid reason for you to ask me this. Who we vote for as American citizens is private. I do not have a yard sign for either candidate, I do not wear either one's merchandise, I don't send money to either campaign, nor have I ever encouraged anyone else to.

But I will respond to some basic principles. According to the Bible just because we are very strict with ourselves does not mean we are to leave the world. We are ambassadors of the kingdom in this world. We are here to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to the lost. It is the Lord who has set it up that we would be citizens of the countries we live in and that means we have all the rights and responsibilities of citizens.

Rather we are told to do all unto the Lord. So if you vote, do it unto the Lord. You must follow your spirit as the Lord leads.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
17,310
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So are jobs numbers, but you immediately waved them away when they were inconvenient.

But tell me, do you believe love of money is a sin?
The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. It undoubtedly leads to sin. Do you believe lying is an abomination? Hatred?
 

JayBird

Active member
Aug 15, 2024
521
46
28
There is a very simple fix for anyone who is honest and doesn't want to scam people. All you need to do is eliminate all taxes and replace them with a simple sales tax.
I can't go along with that because it constitutes a massive tax increase and burden on the poor.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
34,557
6,134
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Hey @JayBird

Earlier a quote from the Scriptures was made about our not taking people into the courts. I also pointed out that, that was more a practice of the GOP candidate than anyone else. He literally has spent his entire life dragging people into courts for various and sundry grievances. Many are even for issues that are later thrown out as merely being frivolous. That's something the Scriptures tell us not to do. Although I believe that instruction is for believers.

God bless,
Ted
Yes, that instruction is very plainly for believers. How can all these newbies to this platform be so ridiculously focused on a presidential election while having nothing to add to fellowship on the Lord or the word of God? Why would people whose only interest is this election come to a Christianchat.com?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
34,557
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Hi @ZNP

Yeah, I agree with @JayBird. You can't really be seriously asking such questions and standing behind the GOP candidate. That would just be willful blindness.

God bless,
Ted
Good point. Now show me where I have "stood behind" the GOP candidate? Or is this simply more falsehoods being spread by you?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
34,557
6,134
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So are jobs numbers, but you immediately waved them away when they were inconvenient.

But tell me, do you believe love of money is a sin?
Jobs numbers are not "jobs" numbers. They are calculated from the payroll. So if inflation goes up 20% and salaries also go up by 20% it will look like "jobs" have gone up. That is bogus, it is simply inflation.

That is why the far more accurate measure (not perfect but better) is GDP/Debt ratio. Both will be affected by inflation, however GDP is in fully inflated dollars while our debt is spread over the last 20 years, so there is still some bias.

Also unemployment is not a measure of people who lost their jobs but rather of people who are looking for jobs. If 1.7 million excess deaths as the life insurance actuaries for Fortune 500 companies are telling us is what has happened they do not show up as "unemployed".
 

JayBird

Active member
Aug 15, 2024
521
46
28
The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. It undoubtedly leads to sin.
Then Christians shouldn't be supporting someone who epitomizes the love of money, should they?

Do you believe lying is an abomination? Hatred?
Yes, and those are even more reasons to not support or vote for Trump. He lies more than any other politician in my lifetime, and his campaign is largely one of hate, anger, resentment, and pitting Americans against one another.
 

JayBird

Active member
Aug 15, 2024
521
46
28
Jobs numbers are not "jobs" numbers. They are calculated from the payroll. So if inflation goes up 20% and salaries also go up by 20% it will look like "jobs" have gone up. That is bogus, it is simply inflation.

That is why the far more accurate measure (not perfect but better) is GDP/Debt ratio. Both will be affected by inflation, however GDP is in fully inflated dollars while our debt is spread over the last 20 years, so there is still some bias.
Then we definitely don't need to give more money to billionaires and mega corporations. I don't think the main problem in the US is that Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates pay too much in taxes.

Also unemployment is not a measure of people who lost their jobs but rather of people who are looking for jobs.
Which is how it should be. If someone isn't looking for a job, they're not meaningfully "unemployed" (they could be a stay at home parent, college student, etc.).
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
34,557
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I can't go along with that because it constitutes a massive tax increase and burden on the poor.
No it doesn't. Rent would be lower for apartments as a result of this. And sales tax is very easy to be adjusted so that tax on bread and milk could be 0% while luxury items could be 50%.

Nothing would be more expensive. True, the sales tax on a car would be a large part of the expense, but the car's sticker price would be much lower since the manufacturer doesn't have to pay any corporate tax or income tax. Likewise the payroll on all these businesses would be much lower since their employees are not getting taxes deducted.

Also a $90,000 luxury car could have a higher sales tax rate than a $20,000 economy car.
 

tedincarolina

Active member
Jul 25, 2024
438
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Sure. They were in the areas of the extraction of coal, oil, and natural gas, it's transportation, and refinement. Also, all those who were creating the pipelines.
Now, what is it that caused the loss of those jobs?

God bless,
Ted
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
17,310
5,982
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Then Christians shouldn't be supporting someone who epitomizes the love of money, should they?


Yes, and those are even more reasons to not support or vote for Trump. He lies more than any other politician in my lifetime, and his campaign is largely one of hate, anger, resentment, and pitting Americans against one another.
How do you know Trump's motivation for wealth? Isn't it God who gives success or withholds it? Why should we listen to you? You share information from left wing sources who lie. Are you complicit in their lies?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
34,557
6,134
113
Then we definitely don't need to give more money to billionaires and mega corporations. I don't think the main problem in the US is that Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates pay too much in taxes.


Which is how it should be. If someone isn't looking for a job, they're not meaningfully "unemployed" (they could be a stay at home parent, college student, etc.).
Mark Zuckerberg makes money by selling ads. He would have to pay fat 40% sales tax on those ads. This does not give him a free ride.
 

tedincarolina

Active member
Jul 25, 2024
438
72
28
Good point. Now show me where I have "stood behind" the GOP candidate? Or is this simply more falsehoods being spread by you?
Hi @ZNP

I don't know. We'll find out in November. Only you know the answer to that. Your posts, however, seem to lean toward approval of the GOP contender. Are you willing to say who you're planning to vote for on the presidential ticket in November?

God bless,
Ted
 

JayBird

Active member
Aug 15, 2024
521
46
28
How do you know Trump's motivation for wealth?
You can't be serious.





Isn't it God who gives success or withholds it?
So love of money is okay if God gives success?

Just how many sins are willing to overlook to justify supporting Trump? When he said he could shoot someone and not lose support, was he talking about you?