Jesus tempted in the wilderness.

[homwardbound]

Disagree. Job was doing a sinful thing similar to what the children of Israel were doing.
But the children of Israel were doing it far too often and far too long.

Num 14:22
Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;

Exo 17:7
And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the LORD, saying, *****Is the LORD among us, or not?*****

Okay, see it the way you see it. I see Job would not deny God. Job stood in belief, yet went through troubles too. The flesh first birth is first birth that is dead to God., in need of the Messiah< Jesus.
that has kept me to not guilt, even through adversities also.
‘shot, stabbed died, and have lied, stolen, committed adultery and was an alcoholicto boot. However, I would not quit
belief to Godwin risen Son. Will you or anyone else reading this here now?
i know I can’, God knows I won’t I stand7i belief and see as in Col 1, 2 chapters God is good, I am not, thanks as we each and all grow into maturity Hebrews 5:12- chapter 6

 

[homwardbound]

Don't confuse him too much, please...

With Job? Satan wanted to prove a point, using Job as his evidence....

In essence..
Satan was telling the Lord.

"You make Job suffer like you made me suffer (in God's desire to get Lucifer to repent).
And, Job will do just like I did! He will curse you to your face!

But?

Job refused to curse God to His face,. That left Lucifer dangling with a 'guilty verdict' remaining hanging around his neck.

Satan was trying to get himself excused from his evil towards God. which Satan had been proclaiming his innocence
before all the angels..
"If God made you suffer like He made me suffer!
You all would have also cursed Him to His face!"

Satan had been using that excuse to feel self justified before all the angels...
Job became God's tool to pry that self justification placard out of Satan's grip.

What many still fail to see.
There is a court case going between Satan and God.
We were called to be witnesses for God.


In Christ!

‘you said, do not read too far into it?
really? Okay thank you

 

[Genez]

‘you said, do not read too far into it?
really? Okay thank you

This is what the Bible tells us....

And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more ​

and more in knowledge and depth of insight. Philippians 1:9​

​

Insight must be unveiled by grace.. by means of gaining more and more knowledge from God's Word.
Which causes the love of God to abound in believers who are fortunate to be able to fight the good fight well.

grace and peace ...............

 

[cv5]

God wanted the angels who were in the process of rejecting Him to repent.

Jesus literally handed the sop of fellowship to the Satan-man Judas John 13:26.
A last second good faith genuine offer of reconciliation and fellowship so to speak.

Judas-Satan turns Him down.

This is why Jesus was troubled in spirit five verses earlier.

So yes, definitely, God yearns that the lost would repent and believe the truth......that He is good, righteous and holy. Even Satan and the fallen host.

BTW........God is omniscient and outside of time, which is why vv 21 precedes vv 26.

 

[cv5]

Don't confuse him too much, please...

With Job? Satan wanted to prove a point, using Job as his evidence....

In essence..
Satan was telling the Lord.

"You make Job suffer like you made me suffer (in God's desire to get Lucifer to repent).
And, Job will do just like I did! He will curse you to your face!

But?

Job refused to curse God to His face,. That left Lucifer dangling with a 'guilty verdict' remaining hanging around his neck.

Satan was trying to get himself excused from his evil towards God. which Satan had been proclaiming his innocence
before all the angels..
"If God made you suffer like He made me suffer!
You all would have also cursed Him to His face!"

Satan had been using that excuse to feel self justified before all the angels...
Job became God's tool to pry that self justification placard out of Satan's grip.

What many still fail to see.
There is a court case going between Satan and God.
We were called to be witnesses for God.


In Christ!

Satan was accusing God of "rigging the game" by putting a HEDGE around Job.
Ultimately, it was an attemp to prove that God does NOT give "true life" via actual free will, and that God is a cosmic tyrant. These lies proving successful on the fallen host and the Woman, so why not keep at it?

God is of course vindicated thru Jobs trials. As He is thru ours.

BTW.........every single statement Satan makes in Job is a lie. And every other place in Scripture too.

The bad guy is always Satan.

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus literally handed the sop of fellowship to the Satan-man Judas John 13:26.
A last second good faith genuine offer of reconciliation and fellowship so to speak.

Judas-Satan turns Him down.

This is why Jesus was troubled in spirit five verses earlier.

So yes, definitely, God yearns that the lost would repent and believe the truth......that He is good, righteous and holy. Even Satan and the fallen host.

BTW........God is omniscient and outside of time, which is why vv 21 precedes vv 26.

Then why didn't God have Jesus become an angel and die for them?

 

[Genez]

Jesus literally handed the sop of fellowship to the Satan-man Judas John 13:26.
A last second good faith genuine offer of reconciliation and fellowship so to speak.

Judas-Satan turns Him down.

This is why Jesus was troubled in spirit five verses earlier.

So yes, definitely, God yearns that the lost would repent and believe the truth......that He is good, righteous and holy. Even Satan and the fallen host.

BTW........God is omniscient and outside of time, which is why vv 21 precedes vv 26.

That was very good!

 

[Nehemiah6]

Disagree. Job was doing a sinful thing similar to what the children of Israel were doing.

You will definitely find no such thing in the book of Job, nor in the prophecy of Ezekiel. So how did you miss this (which is divine revelation since only God knew Job, and grouped him with two other righteous men in Ezekiel -- Noah and Daniel)?

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. (Job 1:1)

1. Perfect = morally and ethically pure
2. Upright = straight, straightforward, just, fitting, proper, correct
3. One that feared God = fearing, reverent, afraid
4. Eschewed evil = departed from and avoided evil.

Since you are contradicting God, you need to retract that statement.

 

[Genez]

Then why didn't God have Jesus become an angel and die for them?

That was not the problem. Their problem was not because they had been created with a fallen nature
The angels all ended up as they did, only after each one individually and personally chose for, or against, the Lord.

We, on the other hand. Had no choice in being born fallen.
Jesus took responsibility for what we did not choose for.
He displayed his acceptance of his responsibility on the Cross, which opened the way for salvation.
Because of the Cross, we then could choose for, or against, Him; just as the angels had done.

 

[Cameron143]

That was not the problem. Their problem was not because they had been created with a fallen nature
The angels all ended up as they did, only after each one individually and personally chose for, or against, the Lord.

We, on the other hand. Had no choice in being born fallen.
Jesus took responsibility for what we did not choose for.
He displayed his acceptance of his responsibility on the Cross, which opened the way for salvation.
Because of the Cross, we then could choose for, or against, Him; just as the angels had done.

Where do you find this in scripture? You assume God's motive. The fact is, for the angels to be redeemed, they would need a Redeemer. God never made provision for rebellious angels before the foundation of the world. He did do so for mankind.

Also, Adam and Eve were redeemed. They were created with free will. They chose sin. God redeemed them anyway.

 

[cv5]

Since you are contradicting God, you need to retract that statement.

I think not.....
And yes, Job CONFESSED and repented of his sin of "contending" with the Almighty aka putting God on trial.

Job 40:1 - Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
Job 40:2 - Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

Job 40:3 - Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Job 40:4 - Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

Job 40:8 - Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

Job 42:3 - Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

Job 42:6 - Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

 

[Genez]

Where do you find this in scripture? You assume God's motive. The fact is, for the angels to be redeemed, they would need a Redeemer. God never made provision for rebellious angels before the foundation of the world. He did do so for mankind.

Also, Adam and Eve were redeemed. They were created with free will. They chose sin. God redeemed them anyway.

The angels that did not follow Satan needed no redemption. All men do.

Angels were created spiritual beings, and remain as such.
Even fallen angels remained being spiritual.

In contrast to angels?
We as humans are born *spiritually dead.*
To be with God, you need to be spiritually alive.

It's only fallen man that needs redemption via regeneration. Not angels.

Since the angels who were in the process of siding with Lucifer were remaining spiritual?
All that they would have needed to do?
Would have been to change their minds, which is the true meaning of the word 'repentance.'

All the angels (including Lucifer) needed to do?
Would have been to repent, and God would have restored them back into his good graces.

Even Satan himself today is spiritual in his fallen state. He can communicate with God.

In Christ .........

 

[awelight]

That was not the problem. Their problem was not because they had been created with a fallen nature
The angels all ended up as they did, only after each one individually and personally chose for, or against, the Lord.

We, on the other hand. Had no choice in being born fallen.
Jesus took responsibility for what we did not choose for.
He displayed his acceptance of his responsibility on the Cross, which opened the way for salvation.
Because of the Cross, we then could choose for, or against, Him; just as the angels had done.

Some of your conclusions, in this post, can not be backed-up by Biblical fact. I am not responding to argue with you but to point out that we should be cautious about making conclusions not based on Biblical revelation.

You implied, in the above post, that humankind was created "fallen". This would not be Biblically correct. Adam was created "upright" and then "fell" in the temptation in Eden. All of subsequent humankind were and are born fallen because of Adam's fall. Likewise, one third of the Angelic population fell with Lucifer (The morning star - Isaiah 14 & Revelation 12), after the sin of "pride" was found in him. The reason why a third of the Angels fell is not explained in the Bible. However, here are a couple of possibilities: 1) God knowing that Lucifer would lead a rebellion against Him, allowed one third to fall and upheld the other two thirds from falling. (A Divine Angelic elect). 2) The one third that did fall were under the leadership of Lucifer, just as one third was under Michael and another third under Gabriel. 3) These two previous explanations make for interesting conversation but should never be given out as if they are Biblical reality. TRUTH IS: we just don't know.

You also stated: "Jesus took responsibility for what we did not choose for." I am not really sure what you were going for in this statement? You make it sound as if Jesus was providing redemption because we unjustly inherited a Fallen Nature. You and I are not "victims" here of Adam's fall -- You and I would have done no better if placed in Adam's shoes.

 

[cv5]

I think not.....
And yes, Job CONFESSED and repented of his sin of "contending" with the Almighty aka putting God on trial.

Job 40:1 - Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
Job 40:2 - Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

Job 40:3 - Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Job 40:4 - Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

Job 40:8 - Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

Job 42:3 - Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

Job 42:6 - Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Contending contending.....where have I heard that before?
Oh yes....here it is:

27So he said to him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Jacob.” 28Then he said, “Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but [q]Israel; for you have contended with God and with men, and have prevailed.”

Exo 17:7 - So he called the name of the place Massah[fn] and Meribah,[fn] because of the contention of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the LORD, saying, “Is the LORD among us or not?”

So @Nehemiah6 was Job engaged in similar sin? According to God in 40:2 he was.
Which has been my thesis all along if you recall.

 

[Genez]

Some of your conclusions, in this post, can not be backed-up by Biblical fact.

I knew you would need to say that....

Alright...

You implied, in the above post, that humankind was created "fallen".

Not created, born fallen. Go back and read what I said.

Adam was created without a sin nature.
Then he fell.
The rest became our history.

 

[awelight]

I knew you would need to say that....

Alright...


Not created, born fallen. Go back and read what I said.

Adam was created without a sin nature.
Then he fell.
The rest became our history.

You stated in the post: "Their problem was not because they had been created with a fallen nature."

The implication of this sentence is - That we were created with a fallen nature. Just saying. But I except your correction and agree with it.

 

[Cameron143]

The angels that did not follow Satan needed no redemption. All men do.

Angels were created spiritual beings, and remain as such.
Even fallen angels remained being spiritual.

In contrast to angels?
We as humans are born *spiritually dead.*
To be with God, you need to be spiritually alive.

It's only fallen man that needs redemption via regeneration. Not angels.

Since the angels who were in the process of siding with Lucifer were remaining spiritual?
All that they would have needed to do?
Would have been to change their minds, which is the true meaning of the word 'repentance.'

All the angels (including Lucifer) needed to do?
Would have been to repent, and God would have restored them back into his good graces.

Even Satan himself today is spiritual in his fallen state. He can communicate with God.

In Christ .........

Being spiritually dead doesn't mean we have no spirit. It means the spiritual aspect of man has been corrupted. That angels exist in a spiritual realm doesn't mean their spirits aren't corrupted.
And remission of sin is through blood. So...God never made provision for fallen angels to be reconciled to Himself. Repentance, apart from the shedding of blood, is insufficient for redemption.
Neither did Christ fulfill righteousness on their behalf. So there is no means for righteousness to be imputed to them.

 

[cv5]

Being spiritually dead doesn't mean we have no spirit. It means the spiritual aspect of man has been corrupted.

God's definition of "death" = separation
Adam "separated" from God in order to save the Woman. This is the "first death", the first separation.
God being just and merciful, this separation can be RECONCILED, repaired, renewed by the Blood of the Lamb.

When we believe we enjoy NEW LIFE (eternal life) because we are now UNIONED eternally with The Life (the One Who has Life, is Life, gives life) Who is Christ Jesus.

The lake of fire is the "second death", after which there is NO chance of reconciliation.
Eternal dying, eternal existence WITHOUT God's presence.

 

[cv5]

Then why didn't God have Jesus become an angel and die for them?

Who knows. Who knows if Angels can repent. I don't know.

But I do know that fallen angels have free will. And so do the holy angels.

 

[Cameron143]

God's definition of "death" = separation
Adam "separated" from God in order to save the Woman. This is the "first death", the first separation.
God being just and merciful, this separation can be RECONCILED, repaired, renewed by the Blood of the Lamb.

When we believe we enjoy NEW LIFE (eternal life) because we are now UNIONED eternally with The Life (the One Who has Life, is Life, gives life) Who is Christ Jesus.

The lake of fire is the "second death", after which there is NO chance of reconciliation.
Eternal dying, eternal existence WITHOUT God's presence.

Good stuff. But death is more than just separation. Like many biblical concepts,there are multiple aspects to it. For example, the body of Christ is referred to as a body, a building, a bride, and more. Each description confirms the others, as well as adds to and informs the reality of a relationship with Christ. Death, biblically, also has a broader scope for me.