Works and Salvation

[Soyeong]

Exodus 33:13 doesn't mention a covenant, and Leviticus 24:8 says the sabbath will be taken from Israel by an everlasting covenant. Since the old covenant ended, the new and everlasting covenant has to be what was in view.
I know it won't make a difference for you, but perhaps it will help someone else.

Sorry, I meant Exodus 31:14-17. My point is that the only way that the Mosaic Covenant can be replaced by the New Covenant is if the New Covenant is inclusive of everything in it. In other words, a newer covenant can't nullify the promises of an older covenant that has already been ratified, so it must be inclusive of them.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Do you think that Christ the Gospel message to stop repenting because the law has ended now that he has come and to curse us by causing us to be free to do what God’s law has revealed to be wickedness? Or do you think that Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand and that he was sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from what God’s law reveals to be wickedness?

I think this

The law was given to show you you could not live up to Gods standard.

It showed you how sin could be forgiven (sacrifice of animal)

it showed you what Christ would do (live sin free and offer himself as a sacrifice.

I also know what it was not given for

to show you how to live. It tells you do not do this,l but not HOW we fulfill that command. so it is totally unable to help me live a life in christ.

But jesus did show me how to live.

1. Love the greatest 2 commands.

2. Seek after things of the spirit.

the law can NOT show you how to do those things. that was not its purpose. It was to convict you you could not do those things according to Gods standard. and lead you to Christ.

You think your strawman will help you be correct? You do not understand the law my friend, if you did, you would not promote it so much.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

In Romans 10:5-8, it references Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! Likewise, in Deuteronomy 27-28 it lists the blessing of living in obedience to God's law and the curse of not living in obedience to it, so God did not give His law as a curse to His children, but as a precious gift for our own good in order to teach us how to be blessed.

This just shows you do not understand the law at all.

You think you can still keep it. so you have not been trained by it.

repent my friend. repent

 

[vassal]

This just shows you do not understand the law at all.

You think you can still keep it. so you have not been trained by it.

repent my friend. repent

Why was the Law given? Why did Jesus teach it? and said it would never pass?

How can you know sin without the law?

How can you repent ( the MAIN MESSAGE OF JESUS'S GOSPEL) it you do not know what sin is?

 

[Cameron143]

Sorry, I meant Exodus 31:14-17. My point is that the only way that the Mosaic Covenant can be replaced by the New Covenant is if the New Covenant is inclusive of everything in it. In other words, a newer covenant can't nullify the promises of an older covenant that has already been ratified, so it must be inclusive of them.

If there are eternal aspects to a covenant, those aspects were pointing to an eternal covenant. But for some reason you cling to the vestiges of a failed covenant rather than entering in to the rest of a superior eternal covenant. You don't seem to understand the superiority of Christ to Moses. What the law cannot do due to the weakness of the flesh, God has accomplished for us through the gift of salvation by grace. And that in Christ.

The generation that Moses delivered perished. Those who Christ delivers will never die.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Why was the Law given? Why did Jesus teach it? and said it would never pass?

Please reads the words of Paul he told you why it was given. Jesus is right the law will never pass it condemns you where you’ll stand. Apart from Grace you have no hope

How can you know sin without the law?

if you as a child of God do not know you still sin then you have some major problems. The law can not even define sin in reality it just names a few and says if you break one your cursed

You want to know the root of sin which is the real problem. Look to Jesus. You will not find it in the law

How can you repent ( the MAIN MESSAGE OF JESUS'S GOSPEL) it you do not know what sin is?

Again. If your born of God and do not know what sin is. You’re in serious trouble.

 

[jacko]

The Bible speaks of the law as being a curse in **Galatians 3:10-13**. This passage explains that the "curse" of the law comes from the fact that no one can fully obey the law perfectly, and as a result, anyone who does not uphold it is subject to its curse. However, the passage also highlights that Christ redeemed believers from this curse.

Galatians 3:10-13 (ESV):
10 _"For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, 'Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.'"_
11 _"Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for 'The righteous shall live by faith.'"_
12 _"But the law is not of faith, rather 'The one who does them shall live by them.'"_
13 _"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree'—"_

Key Points:
1. **The Curse of the Law**: In verse 10, Paul refers to the curse that comes from relying on the law for salvation. The law demands perfect obedience, and failure to uphold the law brings a curse, as stated in Deuteronomy 27:26.

2. **Inability to Keep the Law**: Verse 11 emphasizes that no one can be justified by the law because it is impossible to keep it perfectly.

3. **Christ Redeems Us**: Verse 13 explains that Christ took on this curse on behalf of believers by dying on the cross ("cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree," which is a reference to Deuteronomy 21:23). Through His sacrifice, believers are freed from the curse of the law.

### Summary:
The law is described as a "curse" because it reveals humanity's inability to live up to God's perfect standard, leading to condemnation for those who try to rely on the law for righteousness. However, through Christ, believers are redeemed from the curse of the law and justified by faith, not by works of the law.

 

[Cameron143]

The Bible speaks of the law as being a curse in **Galatians 3:10-13**. This passage explains that the "curse" of the law comes from the fact that no one can fully obey the law perfectly, and as a result, anyone who does not uphold it is subject to its curse. However, the passage also highlights that Christ redeemed believers from this curse.

Galatians 3:10-13 (ESV):
10 _"For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, 'Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.'"_
11 _"Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for 'The righteous shall live by faith.'"_
12 _"But the law is not of faith, rather 'The one who does them shall live by them.'"_
13 _"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree'—"_

Key Points:
1. **The Curse of the Law**: In verse 10, Paul refers to the curse that comes from relying on the law for salvation. The law demands perfect obedience, and failure to uphold the law brings a curse, as stated in Deuteronomy 27:26.

2. **Inability to Keep the Law**: Verse 11 emphasizes that no one can be justified by the law because it is impossible to keep it perfectly.

3. **Christ Redeems Us**: Verse 13 explains that Christ took on this curse on behalf of believers by dying on the cross ("cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree," which is a reference to Deuteronomy 21:23). Through His sacrifice, believers are freed from the curse of the law.

### Summary:
The law is described as a "curse" because it reveals humanity's inability to live up to God's perfect standard, leading to condemnation for those who try to rely on the law for righteousness. However, through Christ, believers are redeemed from the curse of the law and justified by faith, not by works of the law.

The law itself is not a curse. Those who die under it suffer the curses therein.

 

[jacko]

The law itself is not a curse. Those who die under it suffer the curses therein.

no man (son of Adam) was able to fulfill the law hence it is a curse.

 

[vassal]

If there are eternal aspects to a covenant, those aspects were pointing to an eternal covenant. But for some reason you cling to the vestiges of a failed covenant rather than entering in to the rest of a superior eternal covenant. You don't seem to understand the superiority of Christ to Moses. What the law cannot do due to the weakness of the flesh, God has accomplished for us through the gift of salvation by grace. And that in Christ.

The generation that Moses delivered perished. Those who Christ delivers will never die.

Hi Cameron, I do not cling to the law as viewed by the pharisees that Jesus rightfully said were hypocrites, the core of the law is Love first to God then to our neighbours, if we do good around us we follow the law.

 

[Cameron143]

Hi Cameron, I do not cling to the law as viewed by the pharisees that Jesus rightfully said were hypocrites, the core of the law is Love first to God then to our neighbours, if we do good around us we follow the law.

Agree. The law is good. But...it is a miserable means for attaining righteousness given the weakness of the flesh. My intention isn't to diminish the law, but to exalt Christ.

 

[jacko]

Agree. The law is good. But...it is a miserable means for attaining righteousness given the weakness of the flesh. My intention isn't to diminish the law, but to exalt Christ.

The Law Brings a Curse
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [a]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.

 

[Cameron143]

no man (son of Adam) was able to fulfill the law hence it is a curse.

This is contrary to scripture...Romans 7:12...Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

 

[Cameron143]

The Law Brings a Curse
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [a]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.

Those under the law are cursed. The law itself is holy...Romans 7:12.

 

[jacko]

Those under the law are cursed. The law itself is holy...Romans 7:12.

Yes, the law itself is holy... but for humans, the law is a curse because no one is able to fulfil the law so it brings death.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, the law itself is holy... but for humans, the law is a curse because no one is able to fulfil the law so it brings death.

Go back to your original quote...people are cursed who remain under the law. It does not say that the law is a curse.

 

[jacko]

Go back to your original quote...people are cursed who remain under the law. It does not say that the law is a curse.

not my words but Gods.

13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”

 

[Cameron143]

not my words but Gods.

13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”

The curse of the law are the curses contained in the law, not the law itself. Jesus was cursed because He took our place. We were all in Adam and so under the law. The curses for failing to live up to the righteous standard of the law became ours. In our place, He endured those curses on our behalf. He Himself didn't actually become a curse. That would give a whole new meaning to what it means to be in Christ. It's figurative language; not literal.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),

 

[Cameron143]

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),

Right...He wasn't a curse; He was cursed or under a curse.

Curses are words invoked to bring supernatural harm to another; not people. It's figurative language.