The Gospels and the Mystery

[homwardbound]

So the mystery is revealed and fulfilled in Christ., the Christ who "is head of the body, the church ((assembly) Col 1:18a))" . Christ being the firstborn, the first born into the new creation as Paul continues in verse 18 :- "He is the begining, the first born from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent Col 1:18b".

Those who are Born again are in Christ, and as such enjoy the benefits of adoption (Rom 8:15-17; Eph 1:5) and every spiritual blessing 'in Christ' (Eph 1:3).

Christ himself being the first born from the dead, by faith raises us up from death to new life (john 3:16; 6:35; Rom 5). Therefore, Peter and all the other apostles and disciple are also part of Christs body (the church) for they are born again into Christ as Peter himself states - "He has caused us to be born again.... Through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Peter 1:3)".

The one true gospel, that gospel itself is Christ Jesus, the one who, not only shows us the way but is the way, not only tells us the truth but is truth itself and not only gives life but is very life itself.

Christ, is tye good news the mystery that has been revealed in the time of fulfiment. Christ looks forward ti his cross in the gopsel, Paul looks back upon it.

The is only one gospel and that is the proclammation of the kingdom of God/heaven, that broke into space and time (history) in the person of our Lord Jesus Christ. So we proclaim him and ask that people repent and believe just like Jesus and Paul ( Acts 17:30;34).

And this brings comfort to all from the first disciples of Jesus in Galilee and Jerusalem to the first Samaritans and Gentiles... Jew and gentile alike are now the 'One new man in Christ', one body, one living temple. And all can say as Jesus did :-

"there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1)". .... Yes Jesus' teaching in Paul's own style of writing. Cf. John 5:24; 3:18.

One Christ, one gospel, one body/people, one kingdom (Gods) and all to the glory of God.


Hyper dispensationalism (paul onlyism) is an unhealthy, unscriptural and untenable theology.

One Faith, One Lord, One Baptism
Not Paul onlyism, not me, onlyism, not you onlyism, not anyone onlyism,
There is Father and Son as Won for us the people to be in by Faith to his done work for them. The onlyism way to be in with them. be one with them as Won for you too, and all the world.
There are no more self-works to do, only the done works of Son of to be saved by his Father in his risen Life after his one time willing death, done once for us all by Father and his Son's love for us, the two as One in unison, to get us saved through his done work for us, at least me
Jesus the Messiah, is the way, the truth and the new life offered everyone in his resurrection, raised by Father as proof, revealed to over 500 witnesses back then as the proof. Today we, know him no more in flesh and blood, physically, Spiritually only. 2 Cor 5:16
seeing to have no regard to the flesh nature any longer as I begin to grow up in God's maturity, not that I got it, God does

 

[homwardbound]

Sorry, I'm not sure that I fully understand your post - my fault - but I will say that anyone's attempt to achieve salvation by the keeping
of law in any sense, leads to God's wrath, not His grace - instead it is against His grace. Salvation is fully and completely a gift by His exceedingly great mercy and grace through Christ, given to those He has chosen for it, with no prerequisites or conditions whatsoever associated to or imposed upon it.

I completely agree, I seem to have saw a problem between the two of you posting, as if one has got it better than the other. I know I am no better than anyone else ever, I think you know that too, being why God sent Son to save us in Son's resurrected life after his one time death only took away all sin first, everything but "Unbelief" to the truth of the done work for us all, to get saved in his resurrected life to love all in mercy and truth and avoid arguing over, and just love as are loved by God on that cross first, thanks

 

[John146]

I have just seen this post and thought it was interesting. so here is my answer.

Yes.. "IF" I was living in the time of

1. Abraham
2. Moses
3. David
4. Disciple pre-resurrection

SinceI/we don't live in those times we don't need hypothetical conditionals. We have Christ. And in him both Jew and Gentile are the one new man.

So you believe there were different messages to believe in order to be saved?

 

[John146]

There is only 1 gospel. My only point was that there was a level of understanding that a Savior was necessary.
Let's look at what Job might have understood in knowing his Redeemer lives:
1. He needs someone to pay for him in some manner.
2. That Redeemer is now alive, inferring that He was once dead.
That's verse 25. Verse 26 Job says that after his present body is destroyed that he will see God in the flesh, which means:
1. There is life after death.
2. He will receive a new body.
3. In this new body, he will see God.
4. He will dwell with God.
Verse 25 also says his Redeemer will stand on the earth so:
1. He will come in the flesh.

Sounds to me like Job understood his Redeemer would come to earth, die, that he would die, and he would dwell with God. That's pretty darn close to d-b-r to me.

Making things up to fit your theory is not good Bible study. The Bible states that the d,b,r was hid from man until after it occurred.

 

[Wansvic]

In your Romans 1 reference above, we don't see water baptism indicated as being what Paul preached to them. It's simply not there. People today inject that into the text, but only on the basis of their own personal whims. Peter, on the other hand, was still preaching the necessity for water baptism in Acts 10.
...

The reference to Romans 1:16-17 confirms that the gospel of Christ (singular) pertains to both the Jew and Gentile. And in it, the gospel, is revealed how God makes people righteous in His sight through steps of faith. The specific steps of faith are detailed elsewhere in scripture. (Acts 2:36-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

Belief in Jesus is much more than just a mental exercise. Believing in Jesus involves acting in obedience to what He says regarding the NT rebirth; Repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin and receive the Holy Ghost as well. And, afterward walking in His established ways.

Paul's question, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed" proves a point. (Acts 19:1-7) Belief is absolutely necessary. But so is repentance, (Luke 13:3) being water baptized in the name of Jesus, (Mark 16:15-16) and receiving the indwelling presence of the Holy Ghost. (Romans 8:9) All are necessary to become a born again Christian.

 

[John146]

Adam was given a new garment made by the hand of God, covered with the innocent blood of a lamb, was given the gospel of the death burial and resurrection of the Son and believed it, was promised the way to Life and preserved against damnation.

Adam is saved by the same faith we have.

i suggest you look closer at Genesis 3 as you clearly lack understanding of it. Here is an excellent start, only about 80 hours of post-seminary level lecture and worth a thousand years.

https://www.sermonaudio.com/series/2035

And yet, the d,b,r of Christ for sins was kept hid since the world began and was not revealed until after the resurrection. You’re making things up brother to fit an opinion.

Adam was given the skin of a Lamb to cover him because he sinned. That’s all he could have known. The accepted sacrifice was the blood of a lamb. We cannot force what we know after the cross on those before the cross.

 

[John146]

the Seed of the woman had His heel bitten but crushed the head of the Serpent.

that is the gospel of the birth, life, death, resurrection and return of the Messiah to save the world from sin.

it isn't my fault you don't yet comprehend that.

please listen to the lecture series i put for you bro you will not regret it.

Genesis 3:15 is the first prophecy of Christ. But there’s no way those before the cross understood that this promised would die for sins, was buried, and would be resurrected for sins. Genesis 3:15 is about a promise of one coming to conquer the serpent.

 

[Wansvic]

So, what are you saying in all that? Was Paul remiss in preaching the entire Gospel that did and does save to this very day, the part about water baptism? Given that he never instructed anyone that it was required after having received revelation of the mystery, how does transplanting from another dispensation into the present find itself rooted in a foundation of credibility?

MM

The point is both Peter and Paul preached the same gospel. The mystery was not another gospel but rather God's intention to make salvation available for all mankind.

 

[homwardbound]

Ok, the personification of the Gospel of Grace is Christ! For Christ is full of Grace and truth.
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Christ
Has
Risen
Insured
Salvation
Today

 

[Wansvic]

...
Yes, Paul did indeed speak of baptism in the name of Christ Jesus, speaking against which is something that was not a part of his ministry. In other words, negating the Kingdom Gospel wasn't the aim of his message. 1 Corinthians 15 contains the content of his Gospel, reiterated to the Corinthians who had been theologically assaulted by the Judaisers, causing much confusion among them when reading the scriptural narrative through Acts in its entirety, while also coupling that together with his epistles.
...

Context is crucial. 1 Corinthians 15 pertains specifically to aspects of the resurrection.

Paul begins his letter by reminding the group that he declared to them the gospel by which they were saved. (Verses 1-2) He goes on to point out a specific part of the gospel message that he and they received FIRST; that Jesus died for their sins, was buried and resurrected. (Verses 3-4) He then delves into the resurrection throughout the remainder of the chapter. Paul’s comment about Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection being what he shared FIRST indicates there was more to the gospel message.

Notice in 1 Corinthians 15 verse 29 Paul specifically brings up water baptism. He questions why people are getting baptized for the dead if they don't believe the dead will be resurrected. Even though baptism for the dead is not biblical the account reveals born again believers realized their own water baptism played a part in their spiritual rebirth. And as such, one can conclude they were doing it in hopes of changing the fate of relatives/friends who had not been baptized before meeting their demise.

 

[Wansvic]

...
Never did Paul teach the requirement for baptism unto the remission of sins.
...

Paul did teach baptism in the name of Jesus was for remission of sins...

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Romans 6:3

 

[Wansvic]

...
Yes, Paul did indeed speak of baptism in the name of Christ Jesus, speaking against which is something that was not a part of his ministry. ...

Paul did not speak against water baptism. His statement points to his primary ministry being to preach the gospel. Paul understood the significance of water baptism. Paul submitted to water baptism in order to wash away his sins before he began his own ministry. (Acts 22:16) In addition, Paul expressed its necessity to the Ephesians in Acts 19:1-6 some 20+ years after the command was first given at Pentecost. These records indicate Paul understood water baptism was part of the gospel message. Clearly, Paul’s meaning has been misconstrued. (1 Cor. 1:17)

Further clarification:
Scripture informs us that Paul preached the need to be water baptized but rarely performed the actual water baptisms himself. Paul mentions Crispus by name as one of those that he did personally baptize. (! Cor. 1:14) Circumstances around the baptism of Crispus give more insight. The scripture reference is Acts 18:6-10. The record shows that Crispus and ALL of those of his household and MANY Corinthians believed Paul's message and were baptized. (verse 8) This verse alone confirms Paul’s message included the need to be baptized. Of the entire group, the chief ruler of the synagogue (Crispus) was the only one Paul personally baptized. (see 1 Cor. 1:14) Clearly, someone else performed the other water baptisms. Further, on that very night the Lord gave Paul a vision. He told him to continue speaking/sharing the message without fear. (Acts 18:9-10)

 

[Wansvic]

No, Peter was not preaching water baptism. They had already been baptized by the Holy Ghost - spiritual baptism - and Peter knew that and said so. The water baptism was only symbolic of spiritual baptism - the only baptism of significance - of which, Peter was well aware.

[Act 10:47 KJV]
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Actually Peter commanded water baptism in the very next verse: "And he (Peter) commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord..." Acts 10:48 Peter's command was in connection with what he expressed specifically in verse 43.

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Acts 10:43 This aligns with the message preached at Pentecost. Those who believed in Jesus were told their sins would be remitted upon obedience to the command to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. (Acts 2:36-38)

 

[posthuman]

And yet, the d,b,r of Christ for sins was kept hid since the world began and was not revealed until after the resurrection. You’re making things up brother to fit an opinion.

Adam was given the skin of a Lamb to cover him because he sinned. That’s all he could have known. The accepted sacrifice was the blood of a lamb. We cannot force what we know after the cross on those before the cross.

Faith is the evidence of things unseen.

i am not the first person to recognize Genesis 3:15 as the protoevangelion.

but judge others as you would have yourself judged: Adam received the promise of salvation from sin through the Son, and he believed it, and God covered him with the blood of a lamb.
yet you condemn Adam's soul to hades eternally because his knowledge of the details of the cross was not yet complete. but is yours?

 

[Wansvic]

You are trying to wrongly divide the word here my dear. Acts 2:38 is not baptismal regeneration you seem to paint at or point out so that Paul’s and Peter’s Gospel differ. I agree water baptism has no place in the gospel. Your reference to Acts 2:38 that water baptism is to get remissions of sins because of the word “for” yet the word “for” means “concerning” or “because of” or “in reference to” or “against the remission of sins” if taken about. Of course, you cannot believe the gospel without repentance. Mark 1:15 And saying . . . repent ye, and believe the gospel . . .
I think this is another HYPE prooftext that Peter’s gospel involves water baptism. It seems to me that your other proof text does no good in trying to differentiate when the plain Bible says it makes no difference. I seem to think of no offense that you are unable to properly divide the word at this time. You are using the sword unskillfully.
Look again, at how Peter described the gospel he preached.
Acts 2: 22 – He told those Jews around him about Jesus' sufferings and his death “… crucified and slain”
Acts 2:24 – He told them of the “ Whom God hath raised up,..”
Acts 2:29 Peter illustrates Christ's death and burial to King David that from his loins according to the flesh God would raise up Christ to sit on his throne.
There they are, the DBR!
In Acts 2:32, Luke wrote, “This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we are all witnesses…”. Witnesses of what? The gospel as per context.
Acts 2:37 says “When they heard this…” What? Is it water baptism? A big NO! but the gospel. Did they receive Peter’s gospel? According to the context, YES! and again what is that Gospel? The DBR!
Acts 2:41 says “Then they that gladly received his word” and when they received or believed the gospel the thing Peter preached “were baptized…”

Those who had already expressed belief in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection were instructed to repent, etc. This reveals the truth that the gospel message in its entirety requires a response; Repent, be baptized EVERYONE of you in Jesus' name for remission of sin and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:4-41)

Essential elements of the NT rebirth:

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:24, 31-32)

"Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed" (Acts 19:1-7) "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Romans 8:9)

"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3)

"...Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16)

It was Jesus who said, "...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)The first message preached referenced both water and Spirit. (Acts 2:38) As do numerous accounts throughout scripture.

 

[Cameron143]

Making things up to fit your theory is not good Bible study. The Bible states that the d,b,r was hid from man until after it occurred.

I'm sorry you cannot see the spiritual realities reflected in the scriptures.

 

[John146]

Faith is the evidence of things unseen.

i am not the first person to recognize Genesis 3:15 as the protoevangelion.

but judge others as you would have yourself judged: Adam received the promise of salvation from sin through the Son, and he believed it, and God covered him with the blood of a lamb.
yet you condemn Adam's soul to hades eternally because his knowledge of the details of the cross was not yet complete. but is yours?

Not hades but paradise, Abraham’s bosom. But you say that before the cross, people could get saved by faith and go to heaven without knowledge of the cross.

The gospel unto salvation is specifically how Christ died on the cross for sins, was buried, and rose again the third day. Not one look forward to the cross. A popular view, but biblically not true.

 

[John146]

I'm sorry you cannot see the spiritual realities reflected in the scriptures.

We can see it now after the fact.🤦‍♂️

 

[John146]

For four thousand years of human history, people looked forward to Jesus dying on a cross for sins, but when he showed up, not one person, even his disciples had any understanding of the cross until afterwards. 🤦‍♂️

 

[Musicmaster]

The Jews looked forward to a Savior, we look backwards to our Savior.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with Jewish history of sentiment, but we historically have looked forward to the Kingdom, with the Lord ruling with Israel at the pinnacle of the world governance and center of religious vigor, and we have envisioned the Lord's coming as His being a powerful, religious figure, which is the thinking to this day.

So, when non-Jews claim what we have always looked forward to and what we look back upon, that is only true for the Messianic Jews, not Jews in general, most of whom are unbelievers in this modern world.

MM