The rapture? The comimg of Christ.

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DRobinson

Active member
Aug 23, 2023
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#21
Eschatology for some reason is littered not with only interpretations of the scripture.

There are many additions to the text of revelation also.

For example, a seven year tribulation is not even mentioned in the text.

There is a forty two month reign of the beast stated in the scripture.
I agree, but most on this forum will point to Dan.9:27 and give you a wrong interpretation.
No need to argue with them. It is a waste of time.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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#22
It also states that the only way to escape the second death is to be in the first resurrection and if you read farther you will see what the second death is.
There will be no resurrection as described by Paul in I Thess. and I Cor. before the first resurrection as stated here in Rev.20.
You need to study more.
Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who
were in them
; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds.

The text of Revelation 20 has a first and second resurrection.

The text clearly states those who are in the first resurrection.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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#24
And most Saints are still children when it comes to understanding any Scripture.
I have yet to see anyone who understands the New Testament, no matter how old they are.
 

DRobinson

Active member
Aug 23, 2023
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#25
Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who
were in them
; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds.

The text of Revelation 20 has a first and second resurrection.

The text clearly states those who are in the first resurrection.
And those mentioned in verse 13 are included in the first resurrection and the word hades is the grave
Who is in that second resurrection and when does it happen?
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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#27
And I saw the
souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of
the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not
received the mark on their foreheads and on their hands; and they came to life and reigned
with Christ for a thousand years
. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the
thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
restricted yes ... But john was describing the types of people that would be reigning with Christ. Do we need to be beheaded because of our testimony, plus not worshiped the beast, plus not received the mark? The types of people described here are those that love God more then they love themselves. The only condition i see is that we Love Jesus with all our heart. and God will judge that.

Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

It is plain, Those that love Jesus will be raised in the first resurrection and the rest will be in the second resurrection.

there is only two resurrections mentioned in the bible after the time of Jesus and His return to heaven.
 

DRobinson

Active member
Aug 23, 2023
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#28
When I mentioned Rev.20 and the first resurrection it was to disprove this secret rapture of the church before the tribulation because such teaching disagrees with these verses.
I have spent to much time here tonight.
I am sure I have not changed anyone's mind.
Time to get into the Word.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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#29
And those mentioned in verse 13 are included in the first resurrection and the word hades is the grave
Who is in that second resurrection and when does it happen?
the wicked are in the second resurrection and it happens after the 1000 years.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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#30
And those mentioned in verse 13 are included in the first resurrection and the word hades is the grave
Who is in that second resurrection and when does it happen?
Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.

The rest of the dead are resurrected and their names are checked against the book
of life. If their name is not listed in the book of life then down they go.

Revelation 20:15
And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

If the dead that are raised after the 1000 years are all unbelievers, then their names
do not need to be checked in the book of life.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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#31
No offense, but I do not click on websites or videos.
I don't have the time.
What will happen when Satan is set free after 1000 years?
Where will this take place?
The living unsaved will be slain by the very presence of Christ at the second coming.
“With the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked” (Isaiah 11:4).
“When the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God” (2 Thessalonians 1:7, 8).
“Let the wicked perish at the presence of God” (Psalm 68:2).
“The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished” (Revelation 20:5)

The wicked will lay dead upon the earth during the 1,000 years.
“The slain of the Lord shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried; they shall become refuse on the ground” (Jeremiah 25:33).
“I beheld, and indeed there was no man” (Jeremiah 4:25).

It will be impossible for any person to repent during the 1,000 years because there will not be a person alive on the earth. The righteous will all be in heaven.

where is the bottomless pit?
“I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit. ...
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit ... till the thousand years were finished” (Revelation 20:1–3).

The word for “bottomless pit” in the original Greek is “abussos,” or abyss. That same word is used in Genesis 1:2 in the Greek version of the Old Testament in connection with the creation of the earth, but there it is translated “deep.” “The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep.” The words “deep,” “bottomless pit,” and “abyss” here refer to the same thing—the earth in its totally dark, disorganized form before God made order of it. Jeremiah, in describing this earth during the 1,000 years, used virtually the same terms as these in Genesis 1:2: “without form, and void,” “no light,” “no man,” and “black” (Jeremiah 4:23, 25, 28). So the battered, dark earth with no people alive will be called the bottomless pit, or abyss, during the 1,000 years, just as it was in the beginning before Creation was completed. Also, Isaiah 24:22 speaks of Satan and his angels during the 1,000 years as “gathered in the pit” and “shut up in the prison.”

The earth, in a torn-up, darkened condition, is the “bottomless pit” where Satan will be forced to stay during the 1,000 years.
The chain is symbolic—a chain of circumstances. A super-natural being cannot be confined with a literal chain. Satan is “tied down” because he has no people to deceive. The unsaved are all dead and the saved are all in heaven. The Lord confines the devil to this earth so he cannot roam the universe hoping to find someone to deceive. Forcing the devil to stay on the earth, alone with his demons for a thousand years with no one to deceive, will be for him the most galling chain ever forged.

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

after the 1000 years are finished the second resurrection happens...... Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. ..... now the devil has people to deceive again. (loosed a little season.) before the second death.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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#32
No need to argue with them. It is a waste of time.
i agree
to those that have an ear. a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.

It's not what i want the bible to say or make the bible say but what does it actually say when i read it with an open honest heart.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#33
But "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" is of the EARLIER "harvest," which is harvested by means of "tossing up INTO THE AIR" and "BLOWING away the chaff";
Since you are so "keen" to insist/suggest that prophetic 'reality' will actually and necessarily occur as an extremely close reflection of the fine detail of how it is illustrated in scripture - please explain why the 'harvest' does not keep going up - and, is temporarily stored in the heavenly vault - instead of coming back down immediately after the 'chaff' is blown away while it is "in the air"...?

The 'harvest' is "tossed up into the air" while the 'chaff' is blown away - immediately after which - the 'harvest' returns back down to where it was before being tossed up into the air.

The Second Coming of Christ - as a single 'event' - beginning with the resurrection/rapture - and continuing into the 1000-year reign of Christ after the 'Wrath of God' occurs - blowing the chaff away - is a better description of the illustration of scripture. No one is taken to heaven to wait for events on earth to unfold before returning to earth - all of it occurs on earth - in its proper order.

Order of Events:

1) Christ appears - every eye will see Him
2) resurrection/rapture of the Saints
3) 'Wrath of God' unfolds upon the earth
4) continuation of 1000-year reign of Christ
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#34
1) Christ appears - every eye will see Him
2) resurrection/rapture of the Saints
3) 'Wrath of God' unfolds upon the earth
4) continuation of 1000-year reign of Christ
1) Christ appears - every eye will see Him
2) resurrection/rapture of the Saints - meet Christ "in the air"
3) 'Wrath of God' unfolds upon the earth - while the Saints are with Christ "in the air"
4) continuation of 1000-year reign of Christ - after Christ with His Saints have come down to the earth

You see - all of the events of the Second Coming - in their proper order - occur within the single 'event' that is the Second Coming of Christ.
 

rrcn

Active member
Oct 15, 2023
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#35
It's not a salvation issue. Why not live and let live.
Why do you say that? Jesus warned us that it is a matter of eternity:
"[Mat 24:4-5, 11, 23-25 KJV] 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. ... 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. ... 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before."

That is why it keeps coming up. If what you have been taught errors about large segments of Bible prophecy and you accept a false coming of Christ's return staged by Satan you will be deceived into bowing down and worshiping Satan . That is his ultimate goal.

[Mat 4:8-9 KJV] 8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

[Eze 33:6 KJV] 6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take [any] person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

The secret rapture theory is not Biblical, the seeds were planted by a Jesuit named Francisco Ribera. The link is to a wikipedia page that covers the history of this theory. That is why there is so much speculation about another temple, the date of Christ's return, the mark of the beast etc. you can't help but be confused because it is not a Biblical teaching.

[2Ti 2:15 KJV] 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,807
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#36
Since you are so "keen" to insist/suggest that prophetic 'reality' will actually and necessarily occur as an extremely close reflection of the fine detail of how it is illustrated in scripture - please explain why the 'harvest' does not keep going up - and, is temporarily stored in the heavenly vault - instead of coming back down immediately after the 'chaff' is blown away while it is "in the air"...?

The 'harvest' is "tossed up into the air" while the 'chaff' is blown away - immediately after which - the 'harvest' returns back down to where it was before being tossed up into the air.

The Second Coming of Christ - as a single 'event' - beginning with the resurrection/rapture - and continuing into the 1000-year reign of Christ after the 'Wrath of God' occurs - blowing the chaff away - is a better description of the illustration of scripture. No one is taken to heaven to wait for events on earth to unfold before returning to earth - all of it occurs on earth - in its proper order.

Order of Events:

1) Christ appears - every eye will see Him
2) resurrection/rapture of the Saints
3) 'Wrath of God' unfolds upon the earth
4) continuation of 1000-year reign of Christ
What is the first resurrection?

Revelation 20:5-6
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.
This is the first resurrection.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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#37
If the dead that are raised after the 1000 years are all unbelievers, then their names
do not need to be checked in the book of life.
think about the 1000 years as a time to question and judge the souls that are not saved. We know God is just and perfect but if we have any questions we can ask them. The reason they are raised is to let them see that there cases have been justly judged and no doubt is left as to why they are unsaved. all have the right to understand why they are not saved. perfect justice can be served. people that were extremly evil and chose to cause much pain and death but have not felt any justice will be standing before God with the books open. perfect justice can be served.

We are told that we will judge the world. 1Co_6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? God already knows who will be saved and not be saved but the saved are given this right because they have been through temptation and suffered in this world.

The 1000 years is for this and thats why the wicked are raised after the 1000 years. And face the second death after the 1000 years.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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#39
What is the first resurrection?

Revelation 20:5-6
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.
This is the first resurrection.
What is the first resurrection?

when Jesus comes

1Co_6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
will = future

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Luk 14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

The resurrection of the just is not the same as the resurrection of the unjust.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

the first resurrection is the one we need to be part of.....
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,799
1,181
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#40
The resurrection of the Saints at the Second Coming of Christ.
i agree with the point made about the 70 weeks .... The study said
"The idea that there is a gap between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel is not biblical.

The idea that the 70th week of Daniel represents a 7-year tribulation period is not biblical.

These two ideas have done more to hinder the proper understanding of End Times prophecy than anything else.

There is no gap in the 70 weeks of Daniel. All 70 weeks "came and went" in a single unbroken span of 490 years."

creating a gap has created many false doctrines.