The Coming Tribulation: Many Brethren Are Ignorant About It

[TheDivineWatermark]

God is never going to be able to use you as greatly as he would like with that kind of doctrine.
And you'll never be going to be able to feed the sheep with anything but milk with that kind of doctrine.
And you added the word great to your sentence the Great Tribulation. please be careful. by adding words to the book [...]

A more pertinent point (as I see it) is that the Greek word in Acts 14:22, "G2347 - thlipseōn, " is in the PLURAL in this verse.

-- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/act/14/22/t_concif_1032022




[so, yes, I'm not convinced of "brightfame52 's" viewpoint]




Also, see this (regarding the other word, "polys / pollon"--also PLURAL in this verse) -

"πολύς polýs, pol-oos'; including the forms from the alternate πολλός pollós; (singular) much (in any respect) or (plural) many; neuter (singular) as adverbial, largely; neuter (plural) as adverb or noun often, mostly, largely:—abundant, + altogether, common, + far (passed, spent), (+ be of a) great (age, deal, -ly, while), long, many, much, oft(-en (-times)), plenteous, sore, straitly. Compare G4118, G4119.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ so, it is saying "through MANY TRIBULATIONS [PLURAL / PLURAL]..." - Acts 14:22




[that is not the same thing as "the tribulation the great" ]

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I understand, but what is better, to be shown, or not to be shown? I can about guarantee that most here have never even been taught by their Church about the coming pseudo-Christ for the end of this world. But at least from one like me, because I read and study God's Word myself, and rely on no man (as I have done in the past), they will at least hear about it, whether they believe it or not. Likewise with what Jesus showed for the time of His coming to gather His faithful.

I'm just saying you need to keep calm when presenting your side and not get upset because people will try to use that against you like they just did and derail your message. Stay calm and you will stay on message without being distracted.


🍔

 

[brightfame52]

God is never going to be able to use you as greatly as he would like with that kind of doctrine.

And you'll never be going to be able to feed the sheep with anything but milk with that kind of doctrine.

And you added the word great to your sentence the Great Tribulation. please be careful. by adding words to the book God may add the plagues that are in in the book to you

15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

The church, the Body of Christ is currently in Great Tribulation Acts 14 22

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much/great tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

The word much here is the greek word polys and it translated geat 59 x

 

[DavyP]

I'm just saying you need to keep calm when presenting your side and not get upset because people will try to use that against you like they just did and derail your message. Stay calm and you will stay on message without being distracted.


🍔

I will just proclaim then, and not respond to any posts.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I will just proclaim then, and not respond to any posts.

I basically do that. Because there is no point in debating them: that will not change their mind - only when the antichrist is revealed and they see that they are still here is when they realize they were wrong. OR they will continue to deceive themselves and think that the antichrist is the Lord Jesus. This raises their risk of taking the mark, as well as hating and betraying, and falling away.

Either way, I'm past debating them. I just tell them to build up their faith in the Lord so that they can endure to the end. Hopefully, when the great tribulation begins, they will remember that and rely on the Lord for everything required to endure.


🍔

 

[ServantofMostHigh]

they will search for death but death will run from them

 

[ServantofMostHigh]

awake our People we do not need to fear Heavenly Father has His Arms around us
Daniel emerged from the furnace not even singed
when we see the flash and prepare for the blast Pray to Father and the flames will pass over, Pray all times for thanks and Respect, deeply Greatful So Much Love

 

[ServantofMostHigh]

it's the evil ones who need to fear because their condemnation is near and our redemption draws near. Yeshua is on His way!!! Thank You Father so much

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Daniel emerged from the furnace not even singed

I don't see in the text of Daniel chapter 3, that Daniel was among those cast into the "fiery furnace".




(Compare Dan2:49 [esp. v.49c--about Daniel] with Daniel 3:12-14,19-23 and context [about "Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego"])

 

[NightTwister]

It's certainly been awhile since this topic came up.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The word much here is the greek word polys and it translated geat 59 x

Did you see the bottom of my Post #61 (where I also quoted from blueletterbible, under that word "polys / pollon"), saying:

['pollon' is what the Grk word is in this text... and that is its PLURAL FORM]


Also, see this (regarding the other word, "polys / pollon"--also PLURAL in this verse) -

"πολύς polýs, pol-oos'; including the forms from the alternate πολλός pollós; (singular) much (in any respect) or (plural) many; neuter (singular) as adverbial, largely; neuter (plural) as adverb or noun often, mostly, largely:—abundant, + altogether, common, + far (passed, spent), (+ be of a) great (age, deal, -ly, while), long, many, much, oft(-en (-times)), plenteous, sore, straitly. Compare G4118, G4119.




_____

So, that word IN THE PLURAL ("pollon"), is: "MANY"...



So the text is saying "[through] MANY [plural] TRIBULATIONS [plural]..."



... which we "pre-tribbers" AGREE... always pointing out how even the Thessalonians (back in their day) were experiencing "persecutions and tribulations that YE ENDURE" 2Th1:4. No one is arguing against that fact.





But this is NOT the same thing as saying they (or we) are in "the tribulation the great" (or, "great tribulation" Mt24:15,21) already. NO! *That* has a VERY SPECIFIC time-marker, so to speak. It will NOT commence until THAT INCIDENT occurs, and it has not yet.


[and that's besides the fact that "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [that's us!] will not even be present on the earth for the FIRST HALF of the "7 yr period" (when "the beginning of birth PANGS" commence, i.e. THE SEALS), let alone at the MID-point, when "GREAT tribulation" will thereafter commence]

 

[brightfame52]

Did you see the bottom of my Post #61 (where I also quoted from blueletterbible, under that word "polys / pollon"), saying:

['pollon' is what the Grk word is in this text... and that is its PLURAL FORM]


Also, see this (regarding the other word, "polys / pollon"--also PLURAL in this verse) -

"πολύς polýs, pol-oos'; including the forms from the alternate πολλός pollós; (singular) much (in any respect) or (plural) many; neuter (singular) as adverbial, largely; neuter (plural) as adverb or noun often, mostly, largely:—abundant, + altogether, common, + far (passed, spent), (+ be of a) great (age, deal, -ly, while), long, many, much, oft(-en (-times)), plenteous, sore, straitly. Compare G4118, G4119.




_____

So, that word IN THE PLURAL ("pollon"), is: "MANY"...



So the text is saying "[through] MANY [plural] TRIBULATIONS [plural]..."



... which we "pre-tribbers" AGREE... always pointing out how even the Thessalonians (back in their day) were experiencing "persecutions and tribulations that YE ENDURE" 2Th1:4. No one is arguing against that fact.





But this is NOT the same thing as saying they (or we) are in "the tribulation the great" (or, "great tribulation" Mt24:15,21) already. NO! *That* has a VERY SPECIFIC time-marker, so to speak. It will NOT commence until THAT INCIDENT occurs, and it has not yet.


[and that's besides the fact that "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [that's us!] will not even be present on the earth for the FIRST HALF of the "7 yr period" (when "the beginning of birth PANGS" commence, i.e. THE SEALS), let alone at the MID-point, when "GREAT tribulation" will thereafter commence]

Thats fine if its plural,its still great tribulation

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Thats fine if its plural,its still great tribulation

If what you are saying is indeed the case, the text itself would NOT say (as it does):

πολλῶν
pollōn
G4183
A-GPF [the "p" meaning "PLURAL"]


θλίψεων
thlipseōn
G2347
N-GPF [the "p" meaning "PLURAL"]




...it would say this, INSTEAD:

πολύς
polys [SINGULAR]

θλῖψις
thlipsis [SINGULAR]


... which would align with the point you are making.



(but it DOESN'T say that / have those "singular forms" of these Greek words. NO! However, it would HAVE TO if your words were to be taken as being correct. The text itself shows otherwise.)






Both of these Greek words in THIS verse (Acts 14:22) are IN THE PLURAL FORM... not the "singular form" that you are insisting it does.







[for the readers: check out the Interlinears... in the Greek... to see these "PLURAL FORMS" of these two words... not "singular forms" that the claim is being stated is there.]


-- BlueLetterBible shows this (as I've pointed out above), as well as BibleHub here: https://biblehub.com/text/acts/14-22.htm "many tribulations"




Check it out!

 

[cv5]

It's surprising how many of my Christian brethren follow a bunch of men of what the future "great tribulation" will be about instead of actually understanding about it per God's written Word.

There is so much sensationalism just dreamed up about it, that it almost reminds me of how some of God's people also love to celebrate things like Halloween with imagining evil spirits, devils, ghosts, etc., dressing up their homes and front yard with such representations, like some sporting gala.

Men's doctrine of a Pre-tribulational Rapture theory is especially responsible for much of this speculative sensationalism about the coming "great tribulation", as it is used as a scare tactic to aid the deceived into accepting their false pre-trib rapture idea, which is nowhere written in God's Word. As a matter of fact, Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 revealed that His coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation, not prior to it. Even what Apostle Paul showed in 1 Thessalonians 4 about Christ's future coming and gathering of His Church reveals it happens on the last day of this world when the future resurrection will happen.

One of the earliest pop pre-trib rapture propaganda was the 1970 book, The Late Great Planet Earth, by pre-trib author Hal Lindsay. A movie was even done in 1978 based on the book, and narrated by Hollywood actor Orson Welles.

Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins wrote the Left Behind book series starting in 1995, which continued to 2007 for a total of 13 books. Movies were made taken from the book series.

All that work by those pre-trib rapture authors sounds fantastic, and very successful, doesn't? Others on that pre-trib rapture doctrine have tried to have similar success with their books and films, but Lindsay and LaHaye's books top them all in popularity and success, generating millions of dollars!

The problem with that is, their stories are mostly fiction, and not truly Bible based.

There is no pre-tribulational rapture idea written in God's Word. Like I stated before, Lord Jesus Christ showed us that His coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation (per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27).

Even at the end of Luke 17 about the first ones 'taken', Jesus' disciples asked Him "Where, Lord?" about where those 'taken' would be taken to, and Jesus showed those are taken to where the fowls eat on a dead carcase. That's not those who remain faithful waiting on Jesus to come that are actually left-behind. The first ones 'taken' per Jesus are those who will be deceived, taken in deception to wheresoever the fowls are. (see Luke 17:37 and compare with what Jesus said in Matthew 24:28). Authors like Tim LaHaye and Hal LIndsay simply failed to read that Luke 17 Scripture closely. They instead just followed a group of religious men who represent a false interpretation of the event of Jesus' future coming and gathering of His Church.

Yet the whole Tim LaHaye series of 13 books is based on the false idea that Christ's servants will be 'taken', and not left-behind.

It's great sensationalism, and sells good, but it is based on a fictional account of Christ's future coming. Just as with Jesus' Messages in the Book of Revelation to the seven Churches in Asia, only two of those seven Churches actually kept Jesus' Word, and He thus had no rebuke for those two Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia. But five out of the seven Churches Jesus rebuked because of what was going on within them (see Revelation 2 & 3).

You fail to ask nor understand:
1) what is the purpose of the great tribulation?
2) for whom is the great tribulation?

Answer to both.....it isn't the Church.

 

[cv5]

Yes, the time of "great tribulation" is about the latter half of the Daniel 9:27 symbolic "one week" of 7 years of two separate 1260 day periods. None of that changes what I showed in my posts. As a matter of fact, my reference to God's two witnesses in Rev.11 points to that latter 1260 day half when the "great tribulation" will be. However, in Matt.24 Jesus said He shorted the time. Do you know what He shortened the future tribulation to?? It is written by the way.



That TYPE of war against the saints will be SPIRITUAL, not the military type wars Jesus was referring to with "wars and rumors of wars". How do we know the spiritual war will not be a literal military war against the saints? Easy, for we were shown that within those very Revelation 13 verses you referenced, but obviously missed...

Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

That idea of "who is able to make war with him?", meaning with the beast, that is about how he will have power over all world's militaries. That is only about the subject of literal military war though, not spiritual war against the saints. It is pointing to the beast having one-world control, a one-world government system, an actual one-world kingdom in the case of the coming false-Messiah.

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

That war against the saints is about a 'spiritual' war, not a military war, so did you miss that, "and to overcome them" phrase? Yes, you did. That means the beast will have power over us physically for that 42 month trib, but NOT power over us spiritually.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV




Once again, your error of thinking is not realizing the beast's war against the saints will be a 'spiritual' war, not a military war. Read the Rev.13:15 verse again, as it's about a sentence of death for those who refuse to bow to the "image of the beast". That's a religious execution, not a military war death.



That is a blatantly false... statement above.

Even within the 6th Vial timing of Rev.16:15, Lord Jesus is still warning His Church on earth that He comes "as a thief", and for us to keep our garments (of white), lest we appear spiritually naked in shame. Do you not recall how Jesus used that "as a thief" idea linked with the day of His coming to gather His Church, per His Olivet discourse? You should, because the pre-trib rapture preachers use it all the time. However, both Apostles Paul and Peter showed that "as a thief" idea is a reference to the LAST DAY of this world when the "sudden destruction" will come upon the wicked, and God's "consuming fire" will burn man's works off this earth (per 1 Thess.5 and 2 Peter 3:10). Thus Lord Jesus linked the day of His future coming "as a thief" for His Church on the LAST DAY of this world, NOT prior to the "great tribulation". And like Paul said in 1 Thess.5, that day is not to take those of us in Christ by surprise.



Tim LaHaye did... derive his Left-Behind series of books FROM what the Pre-trib Rapture school teaches, so let's not try and hide that.

Yes, the time of "great tribulation" is about the latter half of the Daniel 9:27 symbolic "one week" of 7 years.

How are post tribber reading comprehension skills? Evidently very poor. Embarrassing really.

Dan 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people (Israelites) and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Dan 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[SaysWhat]

Thanks for showing who you side with; makes it easier to add you to my IGNORE LIST.

I agree you shouldn't be called foolish, I didn't see any post in the thread mentioning that. Was it a private message or something?

 

[j55]

It's surprising how many of my Christian brethren follow a bunch of men of what the future "great tribulation" will be about instead of actually understanding about it per God's written Word.

There is so much sensationalism just dreamed up about it, that it almost reminds me of how some of God's people also love to celebrate things like Halloween with imagining evil spirits, devils, ghosts, etc., dressing up their homes and front yard with such representations, like some sporting gala.

Men's doctrine of a Pre-tribulational Rapture theory is especially responsible for much of this speculative sensationalism about the coming "great tribulation", as it is used as a scare tactic to aid the deceived into accepting their false pre-trib rapture idea, which is nowhere written in God's Word. As a matter of fact, Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 revealed that His coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation, not prior to it. Even what Apostle Paul showed in 1 Thessalonians 4 about Christ's future coming and gathering of His Church reveals it happens on the last day of this world when the future resurrection will happen.

One of the earliest pop pre-trib rapture propaganda was the 1970 book, The Late Great Planet Earth, by pre-trib author Hal Lindsay. A movie was even done in 1978 based on the book, and narrated by Hollywood actor Orson Welles.

Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins wrote the Left Behind book series starting in 1995, which continued to 2007 for a total of 13 books. Movies were made taken from the book series.

All that work by those pre-trib rapture authors sounds fantastic, and very successful, doesn't? Others on that pre-trib rapture doctrine have tried to have similar success with their books and films, but Lindsay and LaHaye's books top them all in popularity and success, generating millions of dollars!

The problem with that is, their stories are mostly fiction, and not truly Bible based.

There is no pre-tribulational rapture idea written in God's Word. Like I stated before, Lord Jesus Christ showed us that His coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation (per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27).

Even at the end of Luke 17 about the first ones 'taken', Jesus' disciples asked Him "Where, Lord?" about where those 'taken' would be taken to, and Jesus showed those are taken to where the fowls eat on a dead carcase. That's not those who remain faithful waiting on Jesus to come that are actually left-behind. The first ones 'taken' per Jesus are those who will be deceived, taken in deception to wheresoever the fowls are. (see Luke 17:37 and compare with what Jesus said in Matthew 24:28). Authors like Tim LaHaye and Hal LIndsay simply failed to read that Luke 17 Scripture closely. They instead just followed a group of religious men who represent a false interpretation of the event of Jesus' future coming and gathering of His Church.

Yet the whole Tim LaHaye series of 13 books is based on the false idea that Christ's servants will be 'taken', and not left-behind.

It's great sensationalism, and sells good, but it is based on a fictional account of Christ's future coming. Just as with Jesus' Messages in the Book of Revelation to the seven Churches in Asia, only two of those seven Churches actually kept Jesus' Word, and He thus had no rebuke for those two Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia. But five out of the seven Churches Jesus rebuked because of what was going on within them (see Revelation 2 & 3).

Excellent job Davy. I have your back. You told the truth. Don't apologize to anyone. Keep plowing. Gods zadok. Peace.

 

[cv5]

Well, no, The Bible does not... teach a pre-tribulational rapture.

Yes, it does. The rapture first occurs before this happens.
The rapture is a critical component to the flow of end-time eschatology.

Luk 13:35
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[brightfame52]

If what you are saying is indeed the case, the text itself would NOT say (as it does):

πολλῶν
pollōn
G4183
A-GPF [the "p" meaning "PLURAL"]


θλίψεων
thlipseōn
G2347
N-GPF [the "p" meaning "PLURAL"]




...it would say this, INSTEAD:

πολύς
polys [SINGULAR]

θλῖψις
thlipsis [SINGULAR]


... which would align with the point you are making.



(but it DOESN'T say that / have those "singular forms" of these Greek words. NO! However, it would HAVE TO if your words were to be taken as being correct. The text itself shows otherwise.)






Both of these Greek words in THIS verse (Acts 14:22) are IN THE PLURAL FORM... not the "singular form" that you are insisting it does.







[for the readers: check out the Interlinears... in the Greek... to see these "PLURAL FORMS" of these two words... not "singular forms" that the claim is being stated is there.]


-- BlueLetterBible shows this (as I've pointed out above), as well as BibleHub here: https://biblehub.com/text/acts/14-22.htm "many tribulations"




Check it out!

Again its fine that its plural. One cluster of Grapes has many grapes on it.