I was wondering who believes you can get unsaved.
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● Gal 5:13 . . You, my brethren, were called to be free. But do not use your
liberty to indulge the base nature;
Christ's followers are sometimes accused of practicing a religion that gives
people a license to steal, so to speak. Well; that's true to a certain extent
because his followers do have immunity from any, and all, of the curses that
Moses' covenant imposes on disobedience per Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26,
and Deut 28:1-69 because their association with God is via a different
covenant wherein are no curses for non compliance.
So then; for sure there's a bit of a moral hazard within Christianity.
However, God prefers that people dead to Moses' consequences not allow
human nature be the dominant force in their lives. (e.g. Rom 6:1-13 and
Col 3:1-17)
_
● Gal 5:13 . . You, my brethren, were called to be free. But do not use your
liberty to indulge the base nature;
Christ's followers are sometimes accused of practicing a religion that gives
people a license to steal, so to speak. Well; that's true to a certain extent
because his followers do have immunity from any, and all, of the curses that
Moses' covenant imposes on disobedience per Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26,
and Deut 28:1-69 because their association with God is via a different
covenant wherein are no curses for non compliance.
So then; for sure there's a bit of a moral hazard within Christianity.
However, God prefers that people dead to Moses' consequences not allow
human nature be the dominant force in their lives. (e.g. Rom 6:1-13 and
Col 3:1-17)
_
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● Rom 4:25 . . He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to
life for our justification.
The Greek word translated "justification" basically means acquittal; defined
by Webster's as an adjudication of innocence due to a lack of sufficient
evidence to convict.
In a nutshell; Jesus went to the cross bearing the world's guilt. But when he
came back from the dead, he was 100% innocent.
Folks unified with Christ are reckoned joint principals with him in both his
crucifixion and his resurrection. So then, it is required of them to reckon
themselves back from the dead 100% innocent of all charges against them
because those charges are no longer on the books to be opened at the great
white throne event depicted by Rev 20:11-15.
FAQ: Okay so you were cleared of all guilt when you came to faith in Christ.
What about the guilt you've accumulated since then?
REPLY: God no longer keeps track.
● 2Cor 5:19 . . God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not
counting their trespasses against them.
FAQ: How is it possible for God to stop keeping track? Are you saying He
now condones your conduct whereas He used to condemned it?
REPLY: My normal life went to the cross with Christ but technically it didn't
come back with him when he came back.
● Col 3:3 . . For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
I don't really understand how this works: but God now sees me resurrected
with His son's life rather than with my normal life.
● Col 3:4 . .When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear
with him in glory.
Christianity is a lethal religion. I don't know how it is that God was able to
put my normal life to death on the cross so I could have His son's innocence,
but I sure am grateful He did.
_
● Rom 4:25 . . He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to
life for our justification.
The Greek word translated "justification" basically means acquittal; defined
by Webster's as an adjudication of innocence due to a lack of sufficient
evidence to convict.
In a nutshell; Jesus went to the cross bearing the world's guilt. But when he
came back from the dead, he was 100% innocent.
Folks unified with Christ are reckoned joint principals with him in both his
crucifixion and his resurrection. So then, it is required of them to reckon
themselves back from the dead 100% innocent of all charges against them
because those charges are no longer on the books to be opened at the great
white throne event depicted by Rev 20:11-15.
FAQ: Okay so you were cleared of all guilt when you came to faith in Christ.
What about the guilt you've accumulated since then?
REPLY: God no longer keeps track.
● 2Cor 5:19 . . God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not
counting their trespasses against them.
FAQ: How is it possible for God to stop keeping track? Are you saying He
now condones your conduct whereas He used to condemned it?
REPLY: My normal life went to the cross with Christ but technically it didn't
come back with him when he came back.
● Col 3:3 . . For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
I don't really understand how this works: but God now sees me resurrected
with His son's life rather than with my normal life.
● Col 3:4 . .When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear
with him in glory.
Christianity is a lethal religion. I don't know how it is that God was able to
put my normal life to death on the cross so I could have His son's innocence,
but I sure am grateful He did.
_
Psalm 103:12 ~ As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us.
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● Luke 2:8-12 . . Now there were shepherds in that region living in the fields
and keeping the night watch over their flock. The angel of The Lord
appeared to them, and the glory of The Lord shone around them, and they
were struck with great fear.
. . .The angel said to them: Do not be afraid; for behold, I proclaim to you
good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For today in the city of
David a savior has been born for you.
The Greek word translated "savior" basically pertains to rescue personnel
and/or anyone or any agency with the wherewithal to get folks out of a
difficulty from which there is no possibility of them ever getting out of on
their own.
Rescuing is what the Coast Guard does when boats capsize. Rescuing is what
Firemen do when people are trapped inside burning buildings. Rescuing is
what mountaineer teams do when climbers are in trouble. Rescuing is what
EMT paramedics do when someone needs to get to a hospital in a hurry; and
kept alive till they arrive. Rescuing is what the National Guard does when
people are in grave danger of flood waters. Rescuing is what surgeons do
when someone needs an organ transplant. I could go on and on giving
example of rescuer after rescuer; but I think we get the idea.
Jesus is like that, viz: he rescues people from retribution-- people who not
only fully deserve it, but definitely in line to get it; and with no humanly
possible way to avoid it.
Now; of what real benefit would the savior of Luke 2:8-12 really be to
anybody if he couldn't guarantee permanent protection from the wrath of
God? He'd be of no benefit to anybody. No; he'd be an incompetent ninny that
nobody could rely on.
But, if a savior were to be announced who guarantees a free of charge, no
strings attached, fail safe, iron clad, sin proof, human nature proof, Ten
Commandments proof, bad behavior proof, apostasy proof, back sliding
proof, heresy proof, Sermon on the Mount proof, God proof, Devil proof,
irrevocable rescue from retribution; wouldn't that qualify as good news of
great joy?
_
● Luke 2:8-12 . . Now there were shepherds in that region living in the fields
and keeping the night watch over their flock. The angel of The Lord
appeared to them, and the glory of The Lord shone around them, and they
were struck with great fear.
. . .The angel said to them: Do not be afraid; for behold, I proclaim to you
good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For today in the city of
David a savior has been born for you.
The Greek word translated "savior" basically pertains to rescue personnel
and/or anyone or any agency with the wherewithal to get folks out of a
difficulty from which there is no possibility of them ever getting out of on
their own.
Rescuing is what the Coast Guard does when boats capsize. Rescuing is what
Firemen do when people are trapped inside burning buildings. Rescuing is
what mountaineer teams do when climbers are in trouble. Rescuing is what
EMT paramedics do when someone needs to get to a hospital in a hurry; and
kept alive till they arrive. Rescuing is what the National Guard does when
people are in grave danger of flood waters. Rescuing is what surgeons do
when someone needs an organ transplant. I could go on and on giving
example of rescuer after rescuer; but I think we get the idea.
Jesus is like that, viz: he rescues people from retribution-- people who not
only fully deserve it, but definitely in line to get it; and with no humanly
possible way to avoid it.
Now; of what real benefit would the savior of Luke 2:8-12 really be to
anybody if he couldn't guarantee permanent protection from the wrath of
God? He'd be of no benefit to anybody. No; he'd be an incompetent ninny that
nobody could rely on.
But, if a savior were to be announced who guarantees a free of charge, no
strings attached, fail safe, iron clad, sin proof, human nature proof, Ten
Commandments proof, bad behavior proof, apostasy proof, back sliding
proof, heresy proof, Sermon on the Mount proof, God proof, Devil proof,
irrevocable rescue from retribution; wouldn't that qualify as good news of
great joy?
_
sorry for not using bible verses,
I think that the ones who say 'once saved, always saved are correct. in a way.
God is outside of time. so once saved, always saved, if you are unsaved, you were never saved. because outside of time switching sides does not matter.
I do believe that we were given choice for a reason. thogh, and once saved we can get unsaved, but outside of time we were never saved, if that makes any sense.
I think that the ones who say 'once saved, always saved are correct. in a way.
God is outside of time. so once saved, always saved, if you are unsaved, you were never saved. because outside of time switching sides does not matter.
I do believe that we were given choice for a reason. thogh, and once saved we can get unsaved, but outside of time we were never saved, if that makes any sense.
.
● John 3:14-17 . . As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so
must the Son of Man be lifted up; that whoever believes may in him have
eternal life.
That's Jesus making use of an incident that took place in Numbers 21:5-9
Long story short: Moses' people became weary of eating manna all the time
at every meal. But instead of courteously, and diplomatically, petitioning
their divine benefactor for a different diet, they became indignant and
confrontational; angrily demanding better accommodations.
In response to their insolence, and their ingratitude for His providence; God
sent a swarm of deadly poisonous snakes amongst them; which began
striking people; and every strike was 100% fatal, no exceptions.
After a number of people died, the rest came to their senses and begged
Moses to intercede. In reply; The Lord instructed Moses to fashion a replica
of the snakes and hoist it up on a pole in plain view so that everyone dying
from venom could look to it for relief.
The key issue here is that the replica was the only God-given remedy for the
people's bites-- not sacrifices and offerings, not tithing, not church
attendance, not scapulars, not confession, not holy days of obligation, not
the Sabbath, not rosaries, not weeping, not the golden rule, not charity, not
Bible study, yeshiva, catechism, and/or Sunday school, not self denial, not
vows of poverty, not the Ten Commandments, nor even one's ideology of
choice, i.e. it wouldn't have mattered whether somebody was Muslim, Hindu,
Jew, Buddhist, Catholic, Protestant, Baha'i, Atheist, Agnostic, Pagan, or
whatever-- the replica was it; nothing else would suffice to save their lives.
As an allegory, the replica speaks of Christ's crucifixion for the sins of the
world as the only God-given rescue from retribution and perdition; and when
people accept it, then according to John 3:14-17 and John 5:24, they qualify
for a transfer from death into life. Those who reject his crucifixion as the
only God-given rescue from the sum of all fears, are on the docket to face it.
● John 3:18 . .Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does
not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the
name of God's one and only son.
FAQ: How might one go about looking to Jesus like those folks back then
looked to that replica?
REPLY: I recommend RSVP.
Find a quiet place; anywhere will do. Cover you face with your hands for a
sense of connection, and tell God-- under your breath or out loud if you like
--that you have never yet measured up to His standards and you're pretty
sure you never will. Tell Him you would like to take advantage of His son's
death to protect yourself from judgment.
_
● John 3:14-17 . . As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so
must the Son of Man be lifted up; that whoever believes may in him have
eternal life.
That's Jesus making use of an incident that took place in Numbers 21:5-9
Long story short: Moses' people became weary of eating manna all the time
at every meal. But instead of courteously, and diplomatically, petitioning
their divine benefactor for a different diet, they became indignant and
confrontational; angrily demanding better accommodations.
In response to their insolence, and their ingratitude for His providence; God
sent a swarm of deadly poisonous snakes amongst them; which began
striking people; and every strike was 100% fatal, no exceptions.
After a number of people died, the rest came to their senses and begged
Moses to intercede. In reply; The Lord instructed Moses to fashion a replica
of the snakes and hoist it up on a pole in plain view so that everyone dying
from venom could look to it for relief.
The key issue here is that the replica was the only God-given remedy for the
people's bites-- not sacrifices and offerings, not tithing, not church
attendance, not scapulars, not confession, not holy days of obligation, not
the Sabbath, not rosaries, not weeping, not the golden rule, not charity, not
Bible study, yeshiva, catechism, and/or Sunday school, not self denial, not
vows of poverty, not the Ten Commandments, nor even one's ideology of
choice, i.e. it wouldn't have mattered whether somebody was Muslim, Hindu,
Jew, Buddhist, Catholic, Protestant, Baha'i, Atheist, Agnostic, Pagan, or
whatever-- the replica was it; nothing else would suffice to save their lives.
As an allegory, the replica speaks of Christ's crucifixion for the sins of the
world as the only God-given rescue from retribution and perdition; and when
people accept it, then according to John 3:14-17 and John 5:24, they qualify
for a transfer from death into life. Those who reject his crucifixion as the
only God-given rescue from the sum of all fears, are on the docket to face it.
● John 3:18 . .Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does
not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the
name of God's one and only son.
FAQ: How might one go about looking to Jesus like those folks back then
looked to that replica?
REPLY: I recommend RSVP.
Find a quiet place; anywhere will do. Cover you face with your hands for a
sense of connection, and tell God-- under your breath or out loud if you like
--that you have never yet measured up to His standards and you're pretty
sure you never will. Tell Him you would like to take advantage of His son's
death to protect yourself from judgment.
_
if you can get unsaved, are you really saved? it seems odd to me to claim you are saved, but you can lose it.. That would tell me I am not yet saved.
Also. Jesus said numerous times, we have eternal life and we will never perish. that is salvation. If we can never die. we can never lose salvation
Also. Jesus said numerous times, we have eternal life and we will never perish. that is salvation. If we can never die. we can never lose salvation
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