the Sabbath

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

vassal

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2024
679
307
63
This debate reduces to the identification of which commandments are the actual
commandments Jesus identified.
the 10 Commandments written by God Himself on 2 tablets of stone, these commandments ARE the Covenant.
Jeremiah explained the new covenant, please see in scripture.

Jesus was teaching the commandments, it is written so many times, why do you not see this?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,945
863
113
God said He would write His law in the hearts and minds of His people in the New Covenant because the NC is not established on new laws but on better promises Heb 8:6 on how to keep God’s law, through His power by our faith and love Heb 8:10 John 14:15-18 which is a much better promise.

To claim the Ten Commandments are not His laws, is really an argument with God because He claimed them as His and He does not change.

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.
Deut 4: 13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Right in the Ten Commandments that God wrote with His own finger He said they were MY commandments- this includes the Sabbath.

Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

John the Revelator saw the ark of the covenant in the New Testament in heaven Rev 11:19

And we know what is inside that didn’t change

Hebrews 9:4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant;

God wrote Ten Commandments, not nine and God’s people keep God’s commandments until the end of time Rev 12:17 Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14-15 even the one God said to Remember, Gods people don’t forget.
Here is where you contradict yourself in your own words below.

God said He would write His law in the hearts and minds of His people in the New Covenant.

Right in the Ten Commandments that God wrote with His own finger.


Why would God write the same commandment twice?

Once in the law and then again on our hearts?

God would not write 'thou shall not covet' on a person's heart.

It seems obvious that God would write love on our hearts!
 

vassal

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2024
679
307
63
If you are truly loving others then you cannot be breaking the law.

Love and the law are polar opposites.

God is love.

The letter is death.
You break the law by not loving God enough to follow his directive, he is our heavenly father and wants us to do his will, to obey him. We are his children made in HIS image. What was the most important commandment that Jesus was teaching?
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,311
215
63
That's funny! You ask me to have a verse for something I said was missing.

Do you have a verse showing Jesus or Paul commanded Christians to continue obeying the Sabbath Law instead of to do good on the Sabbath as on other days (vs. MT 12:12) or to not treat the Sabbath as special (vs. CL 2:16)?
Why does God have to repeat Himself for one to obey as if God in the OT is a different God in the New Testament When He says I do not change.

The Sabbath commandment didn’t end in the NC, still a commandment for God’s faithful

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

God only gave a number and a name to one day-and claimed it as His.

Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

Which is why Heb 4: 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

Which literally translates into the keeping of the Sabbath.

sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: a sabbath rest
Usage: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

The fact we see the Sabbath mentioned over 60 times in the NT shows it never ended. God kept, Jesus kept, the apostles kept, His faithful followers kept, and we should too.

While you might be looking for a commandment to obey God, God‘s people obey Him through faith and love. We have to have room for faith and to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. No where does scripture say God abrogated His Sabbath commandment. I would be more concerned where that Text is,, especially if its the one commandments Gid said to Remember and is holy and blessed by God. The only commandment that points to the God of creation Exo 20:11 there by design.

Guess we will find out soon enough if forgetting something God asked us to Remember, will be okay with God. After all a day is just a day, just like a tree was just a tree in the garden.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,945
863
113
the 10 Commandments written by God Himself on 2 tablets of stone, these commandments ARE the Covenant.
Jeremiah explained the new covenant, please see in scripture.

Jesus was teaching the commandments, it is written so many times, why do you not see this?
I am stunned that you would make that claim?

The instruction for the Gentile Christians given in Acts 15 makes no mention of the law.

Not even one of the ten commandments.

You have not read the scripture have you.

In all the places in the N.T the one place that the ten words should be mentioned
is Acts 15.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,945
863
113
You break the law by not loving God enough to follow his directive, he is our heavenly father and wants us to do his will, to obey him. We are his children made in HIS image. What was the most important commandment that Jesus was teaching?
I am not under the law so how can I break it?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,945
863
113
the 10 Commandments written by God Himself on 2 tablets of stone, these commandments ARE the Covenant.
Jeremiah explained the new covenant, please see in scripture.

Jesus was teaching the commandments, it is written so many times, why do you not see this?
The ten, the law, condemns you and that is all the law does.

The ten has no power to save and they cannot be obeyed by you.

The ten commandments were written on broken stones, you broke them.
 

vassal

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2024
679
307
63
The ten, the law, condemns you and that is all the law does.

The ten has no power to save and they cannot be obeyed by you.

The ten commandments were written on broken stones, you broke them.

I will be honest with you, I fear for you, You have rejected the words of God and have adopted a false doctrine. Even apostle Paul says the law is good and Just. Why on earth to you believe the commandments are not valid. Jesus made it clear that we have to follow the commandments to have eternal life. the commandments will be followed by all in heaven. It is not for any man s to change what GOD himself has ordained

I will pray for you, and ask God's to make you understand.

Please read my signature below, some verses that confirm what I say are there.
 

SaysWhat

Active member
Jan 17, 2024
268
50
28
Verse please.

You don't seem to be following along Matthew 24. It is about the destruction of Jerusalem and then it goes right to the end of time when Jesus comes. This is not the Jew leaders speaking here, it is JESUS.
It may have two fold meaning that later on when revelations was written. But He was addressing the issue at hand which Matthew 24 recorded.
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,311
215
63
I will be honest with you, I fear for you, You have rejected the words of God and have adopted a false doctrine. Even apostle Paul says the law is good and Just. Why on earth to you believe the commandments are not valid. Jesus made it clear that we have to follow the commandments to have eternal life. the commandments will be followed by all in heaven. It is not for any man s to change what GOD himself has ordained

I will pray for you, and ask God's to make you understand.

Please read my signature below, some verses that confirm what I say are there.
Jesus said His Second Coming would be like the days of Noah. Sadly, so many people didn’t believe (be-live) and nothings really changed. It’s really hard to reason when one uses their own words against the Holy Scriptures as if they are the same.

You’re right God Himself ordained, no greater Authority!
 

SaysWhat

Active member
Jan 17, 2024
268
50
28
Your words, not God's. Is profaning Christ compatible with the fruits of the Spirit, do you have a verse for this? God's law is not in conflict with His Spirit. Its a sad teaching.

Rom 8:6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
That's not a good verse to use because the poster believes differently than you. Carnal minded is pointing to non believers. Not a believer who's understanding differs
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,311
215
63
That's not a good verse to use because the poster believes differently than you. Carnal minded is pointing to non believers. Not a believer who's understanding differs
You might consider what the scripture says and not what we want it to say because our words are not scripture, they might be important to us, but they do not equal God's Word.

We are told the carnally minded are not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. Rom 8: 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

Jesus said many believers will say Lord Lord on that great day, but He will say depart from Me those who practice lawlessness Mat 7:23

We see this play our in Rev 22:14-15 and the commandments Jesus is referring to.

Its one thing to slip and fall and ask for forgiveness its another not to even allow God to define His own law, which He did, wrote it with His own finger and called them My commandments. Exo 20:6
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,135
29,452
113
You might consider what the scripture says and not what we want it to say because our words are not scripture, they might be important to us, but they do not equal God's Word.

We are told the carnally minded are not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. Rom 8: 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

Jesus said many believers will say Lord Lord on that great day, but He will say depart from Me those who practice lawlessness Mat 7:23

We see this play our in Rev 22:14-15 and the commandments Jesus is referring to.

Its one thing to slip and fall and ask for forgiveness its another not to even allow God to define His own law, which He did, wrote it with His own finger and called them My commandments. Exo 20:6
You ought to consider what the Scriptures say and not what you want them to say, because Matthew 7:23 does not have the word "believer" in it.
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,311
215
63
You ought to consider what the Scriptures say and not what you want them to say, because Matthew 7:23 does not have the word "believer" in it.
Do non-believers call Jesus Lord Lord?
‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
 

SaysWhat

Active member
Jan 17, 2024
268
50
28
Jesus said many believers will say Lord Lord on that great day, but He will say depart from Me those who practice lawlessness Mat 7:23
People who believe in God and understand scripture at different levels isn't lawlessness.

There have been and will be Christians, who may believe one thing about scripture. Then 20 years later have a completely different belief about it. God has patience for everybody's comprehension abilities and that can grow overtime.
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,311
215
63
People who believe in God and understand scripture at different levels isn't lawlessness.

There have been and will be Christians, who may believe one thing about scripture. Then 20 years later have a completely different belief about it. God has patience for everybody's comprehension abilities and that can grow overtime.
Sometimes. But many Christians come to Jesus and want to stay the same, but what we need is a conversion and to be transformed in His image. Its one thing to say I struggle with sin and hard for me to keep His commandments, but I think its quite different to not even allow God to define His own law and to define sin. Thats what Rom 8:7-8 is referring to. They are not subject to God's law nor indeed can be. Its really not a good spot to be in. If we love Jesus we would want to change and follow Him. If we need help ask Him, He hears us when we ask that is according to His will.

1 John 5:14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,184
6,606
113
62
Do non-believers call Jesus Lord Lord?
‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
"I never knew you" is a big clue .
 

SaysWhat

Active member
Jan 17, 2024
268
50
28
Sometimes. But many Christians come to Jesus and want to stay the same, but what we need is a conversion and to be transformed in His image. Its one thing to say I struggle with sin and hard for me to keep His commandments, but I think its quite different to not even allow God to define His own law and to define sin. Thats what Rom 8:7-8 is referring to. They are not subject to God's law nor indeed can be. Its really not a good spot to be in. If we love Jesus we would want to change and follow Him. If we need help ask Him, He hears us when we ask that is according to His will.

1 John 5:14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.
Well I think no one who has come to Jesus, is the same afterwards.

2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning, that you must walk in love
 

SaysWhat

Active member
Jan 17, 2024
268
50
28
1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.