Understanding God’s election

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Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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How does one know that we elect or sealed includes you?
You can be assured when the sealing takes place. It's unmistakable, as when it occurred on Pentecost and subsequently throughout the book of Acts and history.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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You can be assured when the sealing takes place. It's unmistakable, as when it occurred on Pentecost and subsequently throughout the book of Acts and history.
Assured/confident, yes! (Per 2CR 5:6-8, PHP 1:6&14, CL 4:12)

But that is not knowing infallibly; we walk by faith, not by sight/proof/absolute certainty--from first to last (2CR 5:7, RM 1:16-17).
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Assured/confident, yes! (Per 2CR 5:6-8, PHP 1:6&14, CL 4:12)

But that is not knowing infallibly; we walk by faith, not by sight/proof/absolute certainty--from first to last (2CR 5:7, RM 1:16-17).
You obviously haven't experienced the baptism of the Spirit. If you had, you would know that you belong to God.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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You obviously haven't experienced the baptism of the Spirit. If you had, you would know that you belong to God.
No, I have, but you obviously view Paul as a liar, since you ignore what he teaches, such as in the Scripture I cited. :(
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Grace ... as Paul tells it applied to himself .... is POWER to be something we can not be in our weak fallen state.

Saved by grace?

God's grace power must take our flesh and SILENCE it's effects over dominating our soul, so that our soul can decide for the Gospel!
Without grace? The flesh would dominate over the soul and make impossible for our soul to believe if it wanted to.
That is why we need to be saved by Grace!

No regeneration first! God's grace power provides the Gospel hearer a temporary God-imposed state of freedom to choose from their soul! Its all about volition in that case!

But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may
rest on me. 2 Corinthians 12:9​

'Power' is not unmerited favor!

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect.
No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me." 1 Cor 15:10​

Grace is God's enabling power granted by God, to enable believers to become what merits His favor!

Calvinists took a brave shot in the dark, and landed in a ditch.
The light that shines with what Paul stated should allow themselves to crawl out, and dust themselves off....
To begin once more walking by faith in truth in the grace power from God to recover.


Grace and peace ...........
Of course, LIFE (regeneration) precedes the new birth! Do the physically dead have any ability to do anything physically? And doesn't life exist in a woman's womb before she gives birth? Then why would you just gloss over the metaphors of spiritual "resurrection" or the "new birth"? God must raise his elect from their spiritual tombs so that they can appropriately respond to the Gospel, at which point they become "born again".
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Other than all the above man is in great spiritual shape. :LOL:
Well, there is also this, and who knows what else? But, ugh, folks just don't wanna see it!



The natural man and fools are characterized as, or known for:

1. being wicked (2 Samuel 13:13; Psalm 94:3,8)

2. mockers of God (Psalm 74:22)

3. not understanding their bleak eternal destiny (Psalm 92:6)

4. being rebellious (Psalm 107:17)

5. despising spiritual wisdom (Proverbs 1:7)

6. hating spiritual knowledge (Proverbs 1:22)

7. mockers delighting in mockiery (Proverbs 1:22)

8. being wayward and complacent (Proverbs 1:32)

9. being wicked and held up to shame by God (Proverbs 3:33,35)

10. dying for their lack of knowledge (Proverbs 10:21)

11. having hearts that blurt out folly (Proverbs 12:23)

12. detesting the thought to turn away from evil (Proverbs 13:19)

13. bringing harm to their companions (Proverbs 13:20)

14. folly in their heart that is deception (Proverbs 14:8)

15. mockers at making amends for their sins (Proverbs 14:9)

16. known for their folly that only yields folly (Proverbs 14:24)

17. not spreading true [spiritual] knowledge (Proverbs15:7)

18. their folly that brings them punishment (Proverbs 16:22)

20. being ignorant of their wrong-doings (Ecclesiastes 5:1)

21. being unpleasing to God (Ecclesiastes 5:4)

22. having hearts that are in the house of pleasure (Ecclesiastes7:4)

23. their laughter as being meaningless (Ecclesiastes 7:6)

24. their anger residing in their laps (Ecclesiastes 7:9)

25. thinking of themselves as wise counsellors but only giving senseless advice (Isaiah 19:11)

26. not being willing to walk in the Way of Holiness (Isaiah 35:8)

27. not knowing God (Jeremiah 4:22)

28. being false prophets (Jeremiah 50:36)

29. being equated with the wicked (1 Samuel 25:25)

30. at times for recognizing themselves as being great sinners (1 Samuel 26:21)

31. resentment or envy slaying them (Job 5:2)

31. denying the existence of God (Psalm 14:1; 53:1)

32. their chattering that brings them to ruin (Proverbs 10:10,14)

33. the spreaders of slander (Proverbs 10:18)

34. finding pleasure in evil conduct (Proverbs 10:23)

35. choosing a way that seems right to them and ignoring good advice (Proverbs 12:15)

36. angering quickly (Proverbs 12:16; 20:3; 29:11)

37. exposing their own folly (Proverbs 13:16)

38. being hotheaded and reckless (Proverbs 14:16)

39. having mouths that gush folly (Proverbs 15:2)

40. having mouths that feed on folly (Proverbs 15:14)

41. spurning their father's discipline (Proverbs 15:5)

42. having no desire to get wisdom (Proverbs 17:16)

43. finding no pleasure in understanding (Proverbs 18:2)

44. delighting in airing their own opinions (Proverbs 18:2)

45. having perverse lips (Proverbs 19:1)

46. scorning the wisdom of wise words if the wise speak to them (Proverbs23:9)

47. their proverbs being as useless as a lame man's legs hanging limp (Proverbs 26:7).

48. a dog that returns to its vomit when it repeats its folly (Proverbs 26:11)

49. their provocation which is heavier than stone and sand (Proverbs 27:3)

50. their great reluctance in removing their folly from themselves (Proverbs 27:22)

51. trusting in themselves (Proverbs 28:26)

52. raging and scoffing at the wise man with whom he goes to court (Proverbs 29:9)

53. playing the fool, exalting themselves or planning evil (Proverbs 30:32)

54. walking in the darkness (Ecclesiastes 2:14)

55. folding their hands and bringing ruin to themselves (Ecclesiastes 4:5)

56. their speech pours out many words (Ecclesiastes 5:3)

57. lacking sense and showing everyone how stupid they are (Ecclesiastes 10:13)

58. being consumed by their own lips (Ecclesiastes 10:12)

59. multiplying their own words (Ecclesiastes 10:14)

60. speaking folly (Isaiah 32:6)

61. their minds being busy with evil (Isaiah 32:6)

62. practicing ungodliness and spreading error concerning the Lord (Isaiah 32:6)

63. leaving the hungry empty and withholding water from the thirsty (Isaiah 32:6)

64. gaining riches by unjust gains (Jer 17:11)
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,252
239
63
How does one know that we elect or sealed includes you?
Because the life a born again child of God has been transformed. We know we are DIFFERENT. There's been a change made IN us. WE KNOW we have been rescued from the kingdom of darkness and brought into God's marvelous kingdom of light. And we can also know experientially because God's Spirit bears witness with ours
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,252
239
63
Well, there is also this, and who knows what else? But, ugh, folks just don't wanna see it!



The natural man and fools are characterized as, or known for:

1. being wicked (2 Samuel 13:13; Psalm 94:3,8)

2. mockers of God (Psalm 74:22)

3. not understanding their bleak eternal destiny (Psalm 92:6)

4. being rebellious (Psalm 107:17)

5. despising spiritual wisdom (Proverbs 1:7)

6. hating spiritual knowledge (Proverbs 1:22)

7. mockers delighting in mockiery (Proverbs 1:22)

8. being wayward and complacent (Proverbs 1:32)

9. being wicked and held up to shame by God (Proverbs 3:33,35)

10. dying for their lack of knowledge (Proverbs 10:21)

11. having hearts that blurt out folly (Proverbs 12:23)

12. detesting the thought to turn away from evil (Proverbs 13:19)

13. bringing harm to their companions (Proverbs 13:20)

14. folly in their heart that is deception (Proverbs 14:8)

15. mockers at making amends for their sins (Proverbs 14:9)

16. known for their folly that only yields folly (Proverbs 14:24)

17. not spreading true [spiritual] knowledge (Proverbs15:7)

18. their folly that brings them punishment (Proverbs 16:22)

20. being ignorant of their wrong-doings (Ecclesiastes 5:1)

21. being unpleasing to God (Ecclesiastes 5:4)

22. having hearts that are in the house of pleasure (Ecclesiastes7:4)

23. their laughter as being meaningless (Ecclesiastes 7:6)

24. their anger residing in their laps (Ecclesiastes 7:9)

25. thinking of themselves as wise counsellors but only giving senseless advice (Isaiah 19:11)

26. not being willing to walk in the Way of Holiness (Isaiah 35:8)

27. not knowing God (Jeremiah 4:22)

28. being false prophets (Jeremiah 50:36)

29. being equated with the wicked (1 Samuel 25:25)

30. at times for recognizing themselves as being great sinners (1 Samuel 26:21)

31. resentment or envy slaying them (Job 5:2)

31. denying the existence of God (Psalm 14:1; 53:1)

32. their chattering that brings them to ruin (Proverbs 10:10,14)

33. the spreaders of slander (Proverbs 10:18)

34. finding pleasure in evil conduct (Proverbs 10:23)

35. choosing a way that seems right to them and ignoring good advice (Proverbs 12:15)

36. angering quickly (Proverbs 12:16; 20:3; 29:11)

37. exposing their own folly (Proverbs 13:16)

38. being hotheaded and reckless (Proverbs 14:16)

39. having mouths that gush folly (Proverbs 15:2)

40. having mouths that feed on folly (Proverbs 15:14)

41. spurning their father's discipline (Proverbs 15:5)

42. having no desire to get wisdom (Proverbs 17:16)

43. finding no pleasure in understanding (Proverbs 18:2)

44. delighting in airing their own opinions (Proverbs 18:2)

45. having perverse lips (Proverbs 19:1)

46. scorning the wisdom of wise words if the wise speak to them (Proverbs23:9)

47. their proverbs being as useless as a lame man's legs hanging limp (Proverbs 26:7).

48. a dog that returns to its vomit when it repeats its folly (Proverbs 26:11)

49. their provocation which is heavier than stone and sand (Proverbs 27:3)

50. their great reluctance in removing their folly from themselves (Proverbs 27:22)

51. trusting in themselves (Proverbs 28:26)

52. raging and scoffing at the wise man with whom he goes to court (Proverbs 29:9)

53. playing the fool, exalting themselves or planning evil (Proverbs 30:32)

54. walking in the darkness (Ecclesiastes 2:14)

55. folding their hands and bringing ruin to themselves (Ecclesiastes 4:5)

56. their speech pours out many words (Ecclesiastes 5:3)

57. lacking sense and showing everyone how stupid they are (Ecclesiastes 10:13)

58. being consumed by their own lips (Ecclesiastes 10:12)

59. multiplying their own words (Ecclesiastes 10:14)

60. speaking folly (Isaiah 32:6)

61. their minds being busy with evil (Isaiah 32:6)

62. practicing ungodliness and spreading error concerning the Lord (Isaiah 32:6)

63. leaving the hungry empty and withholding water from the thirsty (Isaiah 32:6)

64. gaining riches by unjust gains (Jer 17:11)
Hah...but someone will complain that you're quoting all those passages out of context. Man is really a pretty good egg. :rolleyes:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,785
29,168
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Because the life a born again child of God has been transformed. We know we are DIFFERENT. There's been a change made IN us. WE KNOW we have been rescued from the kingdom of darkness and brought into God's marvelous kingdom of light. And we can also know experientially because God's Spirit bears witness with ours

Romans 8:15-16
:)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,785
29,168
113
Hah...but someone will complain that you're quoting all those passages out of context. Man is really a pretty good egg. :rolleyes:
I know. Scripture bears witness to the goodness of God and the evil of man but they turn it around to man being good and God evil.


Isaiah 5:20
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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Isaiah 5:20-21; Proverbs 26:12b
It's truly mind-boggling when we stop and think about this. So many professing Christians blaspheme God for freely and sovereignly choosing to rescue many helpless sinners while simultaneously choosing to pass over others and leave them in their sins that they so dearly relish.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,856
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No, I have, but you obviously view Paul as a liar, since you ignore what he teaches, such as in the Scripture I cited. :(
Let's see...if one has 2 choices, one being thinking an author of scripture lied and the other an individual's understanding of what the author wrote is incorrect, which do you choose?

The Apostle John clearly states we can know that we possess eternal life...1 John 5:13. The Apostle Paul tells us how...Ephesians 1:13...we are sealed. Notice verse 14 says that this is the earnest, a token, of the sureness of the promise. In other words, the promise cannot fail.

If you do not possess such assurity, how is it that you believe you share in the experience?
 
Jul 15, 2024
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BTW y'all, how does one know that "we" elect includes "you"?
By introspection. You can feel the love for God and people. Your are driven to learn from the Bible and to spread its messages. You can sense God directing your thoughts and actions. Your main goal in life is to do the Father's will. And finally, the understanding of the relationships of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,252
239
63
God needs man's prayers to accomplish his ends?
It seems that you don't understand why man was created in the first place. He was created to SERVE God and to glorify him. He was created as God's under lord to rule over His creation, etc. You asked a question about prayer, implying that you're unaware that God commands men to pray. So...very clearly that is God's will for his people. Did not Jesus teach the Lord's prayer to his disciples? It's not a question of what God "needs", for he needs absolutely NOTHING from fragile, finite, sinful mortals. Rather, it is a question of what he wants.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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Because the life a born again child of God has been transformed. We know we are DIFFERENT. There's been a change made IN us. WE KNOW we have been rescued from the kingdom of darkness and brought into God's marvelous kingdom of light. And we can also know experientially because God's Spirit bears witness with ours
Rufus,

Our change/transformation/experience is evidence and the reason for assurance/confidence, NOT for asserting infallible knowledge; we walk by faith, not by sight/proof/absolute certainty per 2CR 5:6-8, PHP 1:6&14, CL 4:12, 2CR 5:7, etc.

We should harmonize all Scripture in order to have the best interpretation.
 
Oct 19, 2024
576
166
43
By introspection. You can feel the love for God and people. Your are driven to learn from the Bible and to spread its messages. You can sense God directing your thoughts and actions. Your main goal in life is to do the Father's will. And finally, the understanding of the relationships of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Decipher,

Our love for people and God's Word and wanting to witness for Christ are evidence and the reason for assurance/confidence, NOT for asserting infallible knowledge; we walk by faith, not by sight/proof/absolute certainty per passages in GW: 2CR 5:6-8, PHP 1:6&14, CL 4:12, 2CR 5:7, etc.

Harmonizing all Scripture is how we arrive at the best interpretation or understanding of the Trinity.