WHY man is unable to choose Jesus and the Gospel

Magenta · Dec 8, 2024

Yes, God desires we seek Him even knowing that none do.

Your long posts are too much to take in all at once... one point at a time is better.

So none truly seek God, they are hostile in their minds toward Him, yet truth is a desirable commodity,
and Truth is embodied in the Person and work of Jesus Christ Who reveals Himself to those who seek.

From Acts 17:26-28

Magenta · Dec 8, 2024

Acts 17:26-27 ~ From one man He made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands. God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 8, 2024

Magenta said:

I praise Him for that. If you of your own accord raised yourself from death and opened your own blind eyes and unstopped your own deaf ears my hat is off to you.

My ears were never stopped up I’m not an ancient Israelite who broke the law and was made deaf and blind I’m just a person who hears the gospel and believed ….and sis I praise God also everyday

The Bible says it is not by man's will or effort.”

who created mankind ? God right ?

So just to clarify my position ot seems your missing it

the ability to believe is given of God to all mankind from the beginning it’s part of our makeup and design is my argument .. not that god doesn’t get credit or he isn’t the source

where we disagree is I don’t believe that he gives one individual the ability to belief but not the other

But that he created man to believe and walk by it. If you want to say I’m claiming I saved myself or made my ears hear ect you’re missing my point all together .

the difference is did God make man able to believe ? Or does he forbid some men from believing and give others the ability ?

i believe the first option there that God designed and created man to believe and live after this belief in his word. He gave it to all people is my argument .

Israel’s blindness was a specific fuflillment of prophecy in response to thier rebellion against him I’ve never been blinded by God sis so no I didn’t open my own eyes and ears I just was never under that broken covenant that cursed thier eyes and ears

““ ‘Go to this people and say, “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.” For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ ( I’m not an Israelite of the ot cursed by that prophecy after my rebellion against Moses covenant

Therefore I want you to know that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!””( I was a gentile who wasn’t made deaf and blind like Israel was )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:26-28‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Magenta · Dec 8, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Given by God to be sure but not inherent in the natural man who is blinded by the god of this world, taken captive to the will of the devil, a slave to sin, lover of darkness, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, living in the FLESH within which no good thing exists, hostile in their mind toward God, in need of a heart circumcision... did I miss anything? Cannot come to God on his own, incapable of obeying God's law, cannot understand the gospel which is foolishness to him, by nature a child of wrath, and etc. Clearly a spiritual rebirth is needed by all. And dear bro, I know you love God and His revealed written Word, that is not being questioned or challenged.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 8, 2024

Magenta said:

Your was pretty long also 😍 you gave me a lot to discuss.

Person and work yeah but also what about his word as well ?

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭

“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

person work and also his word in other words the entirety of the gospel of the kingdom

Pilgrimshope · Dec 8, 2024

Magenta said:

Blinded by the god of this world because they refused to believe the truth ?

“in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

same deal as this

“and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they rejected the truth and then he sent them the delusion . It wasn’t that he made them incapable they rejected it and then he sent the delusion

once a person rejects Gods truth all that remains is a lie . God doesn’t cause us to reject his word or make us accept it . He speaks it for the truth and invites belief of all creation whoever receives it will be saved whoever doesn’t won’t be

It’s not going to be because God didn’t give everyone the choice but if we refuse it there’s nothing left but lies and deceit

Magenta · Dec 8, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Blinded by the god of this world because they refused to believe the truth ?

“in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

same deal as this

“and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they rejected the truth and then he sent them the delusion . It wasn’t that he made them incapable they rejected it and then he sent the delusion

once a person rejects Gods truth all that remains is a lie . God doesn’t cause us to reject his word or make us accept it . He speaks it for the truth and invites belief of all creation whoever receives it will be saved whoever doesn’t won’t be

It’s not going to be because God didn’t give everyone the choice but if we refuse it there’s nothing left but lies and deceit

Bro. Nobody is born a believer. All are captives, blinded, deaf dumb and naked in need of God's covering and grace.

Are there some more wise than others? No doubt. Does God get the glory for that, or the person?

We have people here who intimate that all were not in need God's help at all.

To them be the glory.

Magenta · Dec 8, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Yes, parallel Scriptures all saying the same thing mostly.

And there were more. You don't give just one idea with relative Scriptures, though.

That gets too complicated for my simple mind. It's just too much at once...

We could take it all the way back to Adam. He chose to disobey. That is the estate of every natural man.

The first Adam within whom we are all born, in need of a second birth into Christ.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 8, 2024

Magenta said:

“Bro. Nobody is born a believer. “

Do Islamic people believe their doctrine ? Thier erong but they believe it and it guides tbier actions . Do Hindus believe tbier doctrine ? Did the Roman’s believe in the many gods they taught and spoke of ? belief is a human characteristic

now can someone be born as a believer of the gospel ? No , we have to hear it like an Islamic person would have to hear that ideation in order to believe it . To believe the gospel this is needed

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

(a what’s needed for that to happen ?)How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:13-15, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God gave his word to all creation faith is found here for anyone

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is preached to Every creature for salvation by the ones Jesus sent into the world.

belief isn’t only a Christian idea sister it’s a human idea we believe things that should be reletively obvious and non controversial but we can’t believe things we’ve never heard about. The gospel being preached to all people is the requirement for anyone that believes the gospel to be saved

But I would land on himans believe things it’s part of our mental and spiritual design . Adam was supposed to just hear God and follow what he said that’s Gods design for mankind made in his image it’s our role and place in the creation to live after Gods Will expressed to mankind in words and action

why is God so against lying ? And so concerned with false teachers ? Because it corrupts thier belief in him they are believing the wrong things about God after the false doctrine comes ot leads then astray because they reject the truth and accept the fallacy exactly like Adam

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. ( tbey bring it on themselves ) And many shall follow their pernicious ways; ( because they believe the fallacies they are led astray ) by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭

People are believers the question is what is it that they believe ? Islam ? Judaism ? Chrirtianity ? Atheism ? Eve that is a belief that of you can’t see something it doesn’t exist that’s a belief people have sometimes . Aliens are coming another actual belief people have bit they’ve heard this stuff that’s how belief gets into our heart we hear and see

The gospel can save anyone who believes like you said there “ people arent just born believing and others born not believing “

Which has been my point everyone is the same in Gods eyes he sent the gospel to everyone because we’ve all sinned and fallen short. Your right everyone is now captive since God looked down and said he found no men left but the men my thing that can set is free is accepting the truth it can set anyone free but some don’t accept or buy it this isn’t because God made one not to believe and another to believe

most all Men are believers in something doesn’t matter what culture notice how humans create gods to believe in and worship ??? It’s because man inherently from our design has a need to believe in something

the problem is we’re designed to believe in God and not everything and anything in the world like people do . Thisnos why preaching the gospel was the one thing needed so people could hear the truth to believe and be saved

Pilgrimshope · Dec 8, 2024

Magenta said:

The natural state of every man is to not obey ?mand be rejected by God unless reborn ?

“and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭

what happened with these two men ? Noah had faith he heard Gods word believes and then acted upon it and saved himself and family just by accepting what God said that he couldn’t yet see

“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭

was noah reborn or rather do we have any biblical evidence to say that ? So apparently

sis man isn’t created by God to reject his word if this is the case why is he so angry and wrathful and why was he always calling them to repent ? And why did he swear to destroy them if they didn’t repent ?

didnt God know they needed to be reborn and couldn’t possibly hear and believe him ? Why is he angry at them for just being how he made them ?

HeIsHere · Dec 8, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Too funny!

Actually the term fits really well.

As the theory goes, since people cannot/will not respond positively to the truth inherent in the Gospel message cause they need special personal revalation, God has to decode it for them, but ONLY for certain chosen people of course.

HeIsHere · Dec 8, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Blinded by the god of this world because they refused to believe the truth ?

“in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There you go.

Blain · Dec 8, 2024

Acts 16:31
"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household"
Believing is an act and choice and a constant theme in God's word
if we didn't choose to follow him giving us free will would not make sense. each day we choose to follow him each day in terrible or good thingd we can believe in him or not. Believe and be saved believe and prosper

Magenta · Dec 8, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

We're back to nobody is born a believer. Belief is not a moral decision as some have claimed the natural man is
capable of making with his heart of stone within which no good resides, being hostile in their minds toward God,
incapable of obeying and finding the gospel message foolishness. People make decisions out of their nature.

It seems to come down to when you believe a person is enabled. Some even quibble over
whether or not one is enabled, despite Scripture plainly stating that is the case.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 8, 2024

HeIsHere said:

haha yes I understood your point and it fits I just had to be honest there lol

“For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don’t think a lot of folks understand the term “ faith “ biblically . Some see it as a way out of having to do anything God said and still reap the harvest, personally I believe this is not correct but rather when you hear what God said faith is why you act upon it because you trust him who said it and the promise along side of it

Pilgrimshope · Dec 8, 2024

Blain said:

Eggzactly.

“And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?

For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:23-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

HeIsHere · Dec 8, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Absolutely agree!!
And yes people can and do exercise faith it is part of human nature.

Faith in the Bible is the same word that was used by the Greeks of the time in their daily conversations/writing, however for Christians it is the message and the object of the faith that is key.

I bet if you went back about 50 years this was the prevailing and correct understanding of faith what you wrote, not sure what has happened, hmmmm ... probably has a lot to do with a few certain pastors who have risen to prominence over the years slowly destroying what was the correct understanding of faith Christianity 101.

Blain · Dec 8, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Did you notice the coming after me part in the first verse? for whosever would come after himself he literally id dsying the for who ever part then would then come then after all verbs weith a choice choosing him not the other way around
I don't think he could have been more clear and it also makes me wonder about that election debate as well but that is a discussion for somewhere else still though what do you think?

Magenta · Dec 8, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

You say everyone hears. Does that mean everyone is saved? Because those who hear attain to life ever after.

I can hear someone speak Chinese. Do I understand? Do I believe what they say? It is as foolishness to me.

Same as the gospel message to those who are perishing. It is as good as nonsense gibberish to them.

Hearing in that state does nothing. The natural man is incapable of obeying. Scripture says so.

Hearing must encompass comprehension... not just the physical act of one's ears working.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 8, 2024

HeIsHere said:

Yeah fifty years ago there was much more unity of belief and far less of the modern theories and revolutionary gospels.

i grew up in a holler right on the border of Kentucky and West Virginia. It was an extremely poor area coal mining was the only real work for hillbillies like my family.

My earliest memories are of us kids sitting in candlelight each night before bed and listening to my daddy’s gentle but firm deep voice reading us kids bi le stories. We learned of Jonah of shadrach meshach and abendego ,and the furnace , of Daniel and the lions den Sampson ect

daddy would find stories that were for us kids but also he would ask us about it and point out things . One of the things , and the point of saying this is he would always show us the persons behavior towards the lord how faithful Daniel was before he entered the lions den

show much trust beforehand shadrach meshach and abendego had before they faced the blazing furnace .. ect I began later to reflect back on that and the men were faithful men towards God and then he did amazing things delivering them from all peril.

daddy taught us kids that faith is best understood as faithfulness and how God always delivered those who trusted in him. Now , I don’t have a Greek reference of the term used in the Bible or anything but what he said rings true as I’ve learned the bible as an old timer now

those memories are really imprinted on me even sixty five years later . I can’t really claim to be an intelligent man or some bu ke whiz that has all the answers but I do really believe that the term “ faith “ isn’t understood as it should be

i remember in the cotton fields later as we migrated to Alabama . mama would be softly singing a hymn and daddy when we would lose our focus would ask us about terms and meanings and how we thought about biblical passages and things . But it was strange compared to now because everyone believed the bi me and not many people at all woild try to re interpret everything to fit thier idea or reinvent it

abut it was sort of like of there was a disagreement at a bi le study or something the bi le had the last word and people tried to learn what was there . I feel like this has changed alot sort of feel like a dinosaur lol

WHY man is unable to choose Jesus and the Gospel

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