Understanding God’s election

[Inquisitor]

Well, that is just sad. But then people jump to all kinds of wrong conclusions when I say man does not have
free will... and there is not much I can do about their choice to do that. So few even make a distinction between
the two things. Still, Scripture is pretty clear about the natural man, and the condition of his heart, and his
attitude toward God, and what is required. We do not seem to agree about those things. Not even Adam
chose correctly and God knew that was going to happen. He was good according to God... until he wasn't.
We are born into that estate, in need of a spiritual rebirth that only God can engender. I do hear you speak of
choosing but I do not hear you saying man's heart must be changed first before the proper choice can be made.

James 1:14-15; 1 John 2:16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .

They were predestined to misunderstand your definition of freewill!

The reprobate cannot understand the truth and not one shred of it.

All has been predestined and you cannot deny double predestination either.

You may be predestined but your family may not have been.

Let's worship God and His love for us together.

 

[Magenta]

I doubt I could either but you know it might make for a good thread

I rarely speak of it for a number of reasons. For one, it was one of the most terrifying things, no, wait, it was the most terrifying thing I have ever experienced in my life. It would be difficult to explain because it was so other-worldly, and I had been delving into some occultish things at the time, for quite some time, which God directly and audibly told me one day to put down. Yes, God, that God I did not believe in, spoke to me, and I knew Who it was but did not want to believe even though every fiber in my being responded, same as when He had revealed His love and forgiveness to me through the cross of Christ many years before that. God spoke to me and later the same day Jesus appeared to me, and still I could not believe... it really did present as the question being put to me of would I believe but I found that I could not. This is the estate of the natural man, and my understanding of him derives from that AND Scripture.

 

[Rufus]

I think I see what your saying the heart must be humbled before they can come to God and God draws them to that place of being humbled otherwise you would just get a Christian by title only am I near the mark?

It's more involved than humbling; for the heart is the seat of all man's faculties (mind, will, emotions, conscience), and all of these are corrupt. This is why God promised in the New Covenant to give his people a new heart.

 

[Blain]

They were predestined to misunderstand your definition of freewill!

The reprobate cannot understand the truth and not one shred of it.

All has been predestined and you cannot deny double predestination either.

You may be predestined but your family may not have been.

Let's worship God and His love for us together.

I agree on the last part-or was I predestined to agree?

 

[Blain]

It's more involved than humbling; for the heart is the seat of all man's faculties (mind, will, emotions, conscience), and all of these are corrupt. This is why God promised in the New Covenant to give his people a new heart.

I see thank you for helping me understand

 

[Rufus]

I rarely speak of it for a number of reasons. For one, it was one of the most terrifying things, no, wait, it was the most terrifying thing I have ever experienced in my life. It would be difficult to explain because it was so other-worldly, and I had been delving into some occultish things at the time, for quite some time, which God directly and audibly told me one day to put down. Yes, God, that God I did not believe in, spoke to me, and I knew Who it was but did not want to believe even though every fiber in my being responded, same as when He had revealed His love and forgiveness to me through the cross of Christ many years before that. God spoke to me and later the same day Jesus appeared to me, and still I could not believe... it really did present as the question being put to me of would I believe but I found that I could not. This is the estate of the natural man, and my understanding of him derives from that AND Scripture.

Awesome! God also spoke to me audibly one day -- but after I had been saved for a while -- but still quite young in the Lord. And it terrified me. But Jesus never appeared to me.

 

[Blain]

I rarely speak of it for a number of reasons. For one, it was one of the most terrifying things, no, wait, it was the most terrifying thing I have ever experienced in my life. It would be difficult to explain because it was so other-worldly, and I had been delving into some occultish things at the time, for quite some time, which God directly and audibly told me one day to put down. Yes, God, that God I did not believe in, spoke to me, and I knew Who it was but did not want to believe even though every fiber in my being responded, same as when He had revealed His love and forgiveness to me through the cross of Christ many years before that. God spoke to me and later the same day Jesus appeared to me, and still I could not believe... it really did present as the question being put to me of would I believe but I found that I could not. This is the estate of the natural man, and my understanding of him derives from that AND Scripture.

That is an amazing testimony absolutely amazing

 

[Blain]

Awesome! God also spoke to me audibly one day -- but after I had been saved for a while -- but still quite young in the Lord. And it terrified me. But Jesus never appeared to me.

He also spoke to me as well it was like a booming commanding thunder my body moved on it's own in obedience it was both amazing and terrifying but I was so lucky to have heard it not everyone can say that

 

[Inquisitor]

I agree on the last part-or was I predestined to agree?

Depends on whether you agree with Canon of Dort?

 

[Magenta]

Awesome! God also spoke to me audibly one day -- but after I had been saved for a while -- but still quite young in the Lord. And it terrified me. But Jesus never appeared to me.

God speaking to me did not terrify me, I just thought surely if I told anyone they would think I was nuts. LOL

In fact I wondered who I could speak to about it, and having no answers come to me right away I opted to pick up the NIV study Bible a Christian friend had given me for my birthday six years previously... a Bible I would read out of curiosity once in a while, but slam shut and push away from me more often than not. I picked it up thinking surely I could find an answer for the dilemma that had just presented itself to me, and with that in mind, I opened it up near the back because I did not want any of that Old Testament fire and brimstone business. Well, the paragraph my eye fell upon spoke directly of the very thing I did not want to hear concerning the fate of all who were practicing the pagan arts I was at the time. I was floored, and already in quite a bit of emotional turmoil, and that just added to it... It was after that that Jesus appeared to me, as though to offer comfort, but you know, I was not comforted at all at that time.

 

[Blain]

God speaking to me did not terrify me, I just thought surely if I told anyone they would think I was nuts. LOL

In fact I wondered who I could speak to about it, and having no answers come to me right away I opted to pick up the NIV study Bible a Christian friend had given me for my birthday six years previously... a Bible I would read out of curiosity once in a while, but slam shut and push away from me more often than not. I picked it up thinking surely I could find an answer for the dilemma that had just presented itself to me, and with that in mind, I opened it up near the back because I did not want any of that Old Testament fire and brimstone business. Well, the paragraph my eye fell upon spoke directly of the very thing I did not want to hear concerning the fate of all who were practicing the pagan arts I was at the time. I was floored, and already in quite a bit of emotional turmoil, and that just added to it... It was after that that Jesus appeared to me, as though to offer comfort, but you know, I was not comforted at all at that time.

Well I have been called crazy many times so we nuts can just stick together.
I love reading all this about you I knew you were something special

 

[Magenta]

Well I have been called crazy many times so we nuts can just stick together.
I love reading all this about you I knew you were something special

I am nothing special, just the worst of sinners on whom God had mercy.

 

[Blain]

I am nothing special, just the worst of sinners on whom God had mercy.

in his eyes you are

 

[GWH]

in his eyes you are

I guess both of you are special, so the question becomes: Why do you believe God does not love everyone enough to make them special, too, instead of condemning them to hell?

 

[Blain]

I guess both of you are special, so the question becomes: Why do you believe God does not love everyone enough to make them special, too, instead of condemning them to hell?

I believe he took great care in crafting each and every soul within the womb and every person is special I am not sure I understand what you mean by what you said condemning them to hell? when have I ever said such a thing or even implied that?

 

[Genez]

I thought you and CV5 and others here were the smartest people in the room. But when push comes to shove, y'all are a bunch of loud empty barrels. Here...let this "bully" give you a gracious leg up:

Rom 1:13
13 I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I planned many times to come to you (but have been prevented from doing so until now) in order that I might have a harvest among you, just as I have had among the other Gentiles.
NIV

Explain to me how Paul cannot be addressing Gentile believers in the above text. IOW, how can "brothers" and "you" not be Gentile believers given the word "other" in this passage?

C'mon, smarty pants. Time to strut your stuff and show everyone here just how smart you are. Tackle the above passage.

Are you addressing me?
I had nothing to do with that argument....

 

[Blain]

Are you addressing me?
I had nothing to do with that argument....

I think there was a mix up

 

[Genez]

So...are you saying that Issac was a MIRACLE baby?

Why are you even asking these things?

​

Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—​

since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. Rom 4:19​

What is that saying to you?
That Isaac was simply another conception?

 

[Cranberry]

Well...Eve wasn't the federal head of the human race...so there's that. Also, Adam was not deceived. He sinned with his eyes wide open.

Did he though?
Adam did not know either good or evil prior to eating of the tree.
How could he wilfully disobey God consciously knowing the consequences he faced should he eat if he didn't know right from wrong?

 

[Magenta]

Adam did not know either good or evil prior to eating of the tree.

I would say Adam knew good in knowing God. The evil he came to know after disobeying God was within himself.

Trying to hide and cover the fact that he lost God's covering was definitely not up to God's standard.