Understanding God’s election

[Pilgrimshope]

You are correct @Pilgrimshope we are called to believe/have faith IN Christ Jesus and what He offers.
Believing is not a work.

How special does it make you feel believing you must protect the gospel from those with whom you disagree?

Do you believe that being born again is not a literal event?

Or do you believe what Jesus said?

sister did you read where the guy asks Jesus “ how can a man return back to his mothers womb ? If it was “ literal “ we would have to revert back to the womb to be born again

Jesus goes on to say this

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

later he tells us this

“It is the spirit that quickeneth;

the flesh profiteth nothing:

the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬


later peter (not me )but the apostle Peter , sums up “ born again “ in one of the only places other than the other example it’s even spoken on scripture the reason we talk about it

“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:22-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Of course it’s not literally that we go back to the womb and are reborn it’s about believing the gospel

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Amen!

People can and do refrain from sinning and people can and do respond to the life giving truth of the Gospel.

And being a sinner (as all men are) does not incapacitate them from responding to the light of the Gospel.

God would NEVER, EVER send a message to lost people that was insufficient for lost people to respond to, people perish because they refuse to accept the truth, God provides for all of His enemies because He is Love, Good and Merciful.

No one is born rejected by God. Full stop.

I am glad you know this God, the one and true God!

Yes the gospel is how God is saving souls it’s all sufficient all we have to do is not do this like Adam and cain and so on did

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If sinners couldn’t respond to the gospel no one could ever be saved it seems a ridiculous view honestly but it’s hyoergrace for you untimately it’s the great scripture eraser

 

[Jimbone]

[


Because the way to be saved is to not accept the gospel ? You aren’t making any sense should I reject the gospel ? Or accept it ? Or just pretend I don’t have any option ?

How about this friend. If you read what I wrote then you'd know this, but when I did what your saying here and "accepted the gospel", when I went up front and prayed the prayer and was told by someone like you that I was saved and could take it to the bank, guess what? I wasn't saved, did exactly what you said and "intellectually" accepted the gospel with "all my heart", I was not saved and did NOT know Jesus.

Yet after the greatest trial of my life had me no longer believing there was a God at all, and He used the weight of everything on my shoulders to bring me to my broken knees and see "my way" for what it truly was enough to turn from it even though I had no idea what I was turning to in that moment, so you're right I made the decision to turn from my way, but not with the gospel in mind at that moment. Then the next day opened my eyes to what happen and lead me to His word and the fact I'd been born again.

God does it His way not your way. So while I do not disagree that we have to make a choice, we do, it's not always like you're saying and sometime that misleads people into false conversion. When I did it your way I was not saved, when God did it His way I was. I believe He did it this way with me for a reason. It's not about our choice in the way you present it, and you're too close minded and militant to take the time to actually discuss with a brother to understand. You refuse and that's apparent by the way you only accuse and dismantle beliefs you say we hold and not our actual beliefs.

 

[cv5]

sister did you read where the guy asks Jesus “ how can a man return back to his mothers womb ? If it was “ literal “ we would have to revert back to the womb to be born again

Jesus goes on to say this

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

later he tells us this

“It is the spirit that quickeneth;

the flesh profiteth nothing:

the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬


later peter (not me )but the apostle Peter , sums up “ born again “ in one of the only places other than the other example it’s even spoken on scripture the reason we talk about it

“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:22-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Of course it’s not literally that we go back to the womb and are reborn it’s about believing the gospel

[Jhn 3:5 KJV]
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Indeed, this is a beautifully edifying line of thinking you have provided my friend.

That being salvation is ONLY available AFTER WE ARE BORN.
Contrary to the Calvinite theory that one must be a "choseinite" before we are ever born!

=====================================================================

Calvinites are up the creek without a paddle again huh? Fancy that.

 

[HeIsHere]

What's funny is Giving God glory for our salvation ='s hypergrace to you. For me it was alway the "I'm saved now and can sin all I want without worry" attitude that was the hypergrace movement.
Now I guess it's for those who believe that God saves us in power and gets all the glory for it, and man gets NONE. Even after I'm transformed overnight and give up porn, stop playing games to spend more time with my family, start learning all I can about Him and His word as I testify out on the streets, in the nursing homes, and in the jailhouse, and ALL because He saved a fool like me who NEVER deserved anything at all like this, and has kept me for 12 years now, and because I say He drew me in, He gave me faith, He granted me repentance, and He resurrected my spirit and reconciled it to His. Not only that but it's only because of this transformation that I've done any of these things to glorify His name. All Him I take no credit, and want none. Now this is hypergrace?

Whatever, you guys lie anyway.

So you are special then, He did decided to grant you repentance and not "Mr. Incapacitated-from-Birth" down the street.

There is only one entrance to eternal life and that is by belief and the is why no one can boast because it is the same for everyone.

We all know that Jesus offers a completed work, there is nothing we can add, but somehow there is this false notion that believing in Christ Jesus for that completed work is boasting.

You can only belief in the accurate real Gospel so maybe you did not believe in the alter call or maybe you were not given accurate information to be persuaded.

This in now way means that people cannot respond with belief/faith to the truth just because you did not at that point in time.

Testimonies are about how we came to belief not about how God chose me as a member of the elect. That is not a biblical testimony.

 

[cv5]

Ironic how they think they have no grounds for boasting, and yet they are God's chosen and will explain how they were chosen.

Some boast (many on this thread). However some actually apologize for being chosenites. I heard MacArthur doing as much in one of his sermons way back.

Something about "I don't know why God chose me.....I am nothing special ect etc"

 

[cv5]

So you are special then, He did decided to grant you repentance and not "Mr. Incapacitated-from-Birth" down the street.

There is only one entrance to eternal life and that is by belief and the is why no one can boast because it is the same for everyone.

We all know that Jesus offers a completed work, there is nothing we can add, but somehow there is this false notion that believing in Christ Jesus for that completed work is boasting.

You can only belief in the accurate real Gospel so maybe you did not believe in the alter call or maybe you were not given accurate information to be persuaded.

This in now way means that people cannot respond with belief/faith to the truth just because you did not at that point in time.

Testimonies are about how we came to belief not about how God chose me as a member of the elect. That is not a biblical testimony.

Amen sister. Couched in those terms, Calvinites are looking pretty awful.

 

[HeIsHere]

If sinners couldn’t respond to the gospel no one could ever be saved it seems a ridiculous view honestly but it’s hyoergrace for you untimately it’s the great scripture eraser

Exactly, by hyper grace I know you mean the irresistible grace given only to the selected apart from personal belief.

 

[Intersection]

Matthew 5:16
So let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

 

[HeIsHere]

Some boast (many on this thread). However some actually apologize for being chosenites. I heard MacArthur doing as much in one of his sermons way back.

Something about "I don't know why God chose me.....I am nothing special ect etc"

Interesting, a humble apologetic boast!!

 

[cv5]

Interesting, a humble apologetic boast!!

You have a way with words my dear.

 

[cv5]

Best regards to @Pilgrimshope
Good job buddy.

And John 3:5 is going into the anti-Calvinite arsenal for future use.
Devastating!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

How about this friend. If you read what I wrote then you'd know this, but when I did what your saying here and "accepted the gospel", when I went up front and prayed the prayer and was told by someone like you that I was saved and could take it to the bank, guess what? I wasn't saved, did exactly what you said and "intellectually" accepted the gospel with "all my heart", I was not saved and did NOT know Jesus.

Yet after the greatest trial of my life had me no longer believing there was a God at all, and He used the weight of everything on my shoulders to bring me to my broken knees and see "my way" for what it truly was enough to turn from it even though I had no idea what I was turning to in that moment, so you're right I made the decision to turn from my way, but not with the gospel in mind at that moment. Then the next day opened my eyes to what happen and lead me to His word and the fact I'd been born again.

God does it His way not your way. So while I do not disagree that we have to make a choice, we do, it's not always like you're saying and sometime that misleads people into false conversion. When I did it your way I was not saved, when God did it His way I was. I believe He did it this way with me for a reason. It's not about our choice in the way you present it, and you're too close minded and militant to take the time to actually discuss with a brother to understand. You refuse and that's apparent by the way you only accuse and dismantle beliefs you say we hold and not our actual beliefs.

No it wasn’t me that told you something when you went to an alter call you have me confused with someone else .

your issue with Me is because you are upset because i don’t agree with your view that man doesn’t have any choice in what we do . You need to only accuse me of things I actually have said to you which is some or about you which is basically nothing unless I said it to you dietectly

Anyways friend I thought we have no choice ? Why you upset with me ? I have bo choice in what I do and say it’s all gods doing ect ect yadda

 

[cv5]

Do you believe that being born again is not a literal event?

This event occurs at a discrete point in "time".
And as has been evidenced, ALWAYS occurs SUBSEQUENT to our creation in the womb and actual birth.

Furthermore, Christ Himself ALSO "arrived" inside of "time" at a point in "time" and at the "due time".

[Gal 4:4 KJV]
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

[Rom 5:6 KJV]
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

 

[HeIsHere]

Yeah God sending the gospel to all people to believe or not believe

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬a

seems like a great view to me , seems like salvation

Hold your horses there @Pilgrimshope that sounds like it could be real Good News!
That is not allowed lest we give hope to lost.

Oh yeah, that is right, I forgot, there is no hope for the lost even if we teach the Good News, God only wants the ones He personally furnishes with belief.

 

[HeIsHere]

This event occurs at a discrete point in "time".

Yes a singular event in time.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Exactly, by hyper grace I know you mean the irresistible grace given only to the selected apart from personal belief.

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:14, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

“Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:28-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭


“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and Saviour Jesus Christ;

who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its a conundrum what I mean is this would be a conundrum

“Ask, and it shall be given you; ( but no one should think they need to ask or are capable it’s a work )

seek, and ye shall find; ( nonone is capable of seeking God ) knock, and it shall be opened unto you: ( no you don’t need to knock it’s a work )

for every one that asketh receiveth; ( no o my the ones God chooses receive anything asking has nothing to do with it it’s a work )

and he that seeketh findeth; ( nonone can seek and find God )

and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.”( we aren’t capable of knocking he does it for us )
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s as if people believe God made man totally incapable of hero g and believing his word and then demanded man do thise very things they weren’t capable of or believing or doing and then blames the people he made incapable and finally they suffer wrath and die …,,all because he didn’t make the able to receive the gospel and be saved ……

what a strange idea for a God to worship
I’d rather love a God that loves the people he created and wants all of them to be saved

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so he doesn’t then sabotage some of the ones he wants to save making some incapable of hearing and believing the truth and others forcing them into it apart from tbier free Will and dominion given by God

I’d rather take responsability for my own sins like the Bible says to do repent and have them washed away so I can be saved

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hold your horses there @Pilgrimshope that sounds like it could be real Good News!
That is not allowed lest we give hope to lost.

Oh yeah, that is right, I forgot, there is no hope for the lost even if we teach the Good News, God only wants the ones He personally furnishes with belief.

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:14-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

great news for people who are going to die . Did you notice the example given and how we can learn from it ?

the people were complaining against Moses and Arron and God even and rebelling eventually God became angry and sent poisonous vipers among them to bite and kill them as punishment after repeated warnings again and again .

after this the people repented and came to Moses and begged Moses , to talk to the lord and have him remove those serpents that were killing them .

What God did was told Moses to make a serpent of brass and make a long high pole and to hold it up high above the people and then God told the people “ whoever is bitten by poisonous viper , if he looks to thre brazen serpent Moses is holding up , he will not die but he shall live through the bite “

at he reason he did it it was they had all offended and rejected his words beforehand and later they relented and asked for mercy . The cross and what Jesus did that day is just like that but it’s for the world that whatever sinner is doomed to die because of sin , who looks to Christs atonement and the gospel will be saved from the condemnation for thier prior sins ( when we sin it’s like a viper bit us and we’re now gonna die )

The ot was a pattern like that of the gospel itnis the thing that can save any sinner who looks to him but if Israel had rejected what God said to Moses about the brazen serpent they wouldn’t have bothered looking st it when bitten

 

[Jimbone]

Another Calvinite phantasm, a figment of their imagination.

The truth is perceived by you to be a "figment of their imagination". And is so because you have no connection to the truth and it is foolishness to you. Sad.

 

[cv5]

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Yea, I was going to bring that up too @Pilgrimshope when I had the chance.

The scenario here is symbolic of both the need and means of salvation.

EVERYONE bitten was INFORMED of the cure.
ANYONE could have sought it out, motivated by a life saving DECISION to do so, that of their own free will.
Those who were afflicted were tasked to undertake a "pilgrimage", striking out to the destination where they knew the cure was.

[Num 21:8 KJV]
And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

MANY of those miraculous healings so noted at the time of Jesus' ministry fulfilled this prophetic OT shadow.
They knew Jesus, they desired Jesus, they went to Jesus.

So it is with all of the saved.