The Author and Date of The Book of Job
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I have heard that it is easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle if you grease the camel first.
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It seems to be about job written from an observers perspective
“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.”
Job 1:1, 3 KJV
“And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.”
Job 1:8, 22
It doesn’t seem job is the narrator but his experiences the subject matter
“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.”
Job 1:1, 3 KJV
“And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.”
Job 1:8, 22
It doesn’t seem job is the narrator but his experiences the subject matter
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yeah brother I was just pointing out a simple observation to be considered
“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters. His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.”
Job 1:1-3
Is job righteous if he sees himself this way ? He wouldnt have said that of himself the writer is abciouely someone who greatly admires job
Look at the last sentance did job write also a record of his own death ?
“Then Job answered the LORD, and said, I know that thou canst do every thing, And that no thought can be withholden from thee. Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? Therefore have I uttered that I understood not; Things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: But now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent In dust and ashes. And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath. Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job. So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job. And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before. And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren. After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations. So Job died, being old and full of days.”
Job 42:1-10, 15-17 KJV
I’m just offering a simple observation ot appears as if someone is writing about jobs life from a perspective of great admiration as of job is a “legend of faith “ in the Hebrew Scriptures given his homeland the time of job seems attainable but the authorship seems to be at the very least a controversy that no one can say “ obviously it’s job or it absolutely couldn’t have been job “ and it really doesn’t matter if we believe it’s true we know it can from God through a holy man inspired by the Holy Ghost
“knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
2 Peter 1:20-21 KJV
God intended the book to reach us and your right it’s very edifying for Christian’s
but brother it’s wise to Observe simple things even if it corrects what we priorly thought it’s how we learn who has the answer first doesn’t matter , it’s who is willing to accept the right answer no matter where they heard it from or if they said it
“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters. His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.”
Job 1:1-3
Is job righteous if he sees himself this way ? He wouldnt have said that of himself the writer is abciouely someone who greatly admires job
Look at the last sentance did job write also a record of his own death ?
“Then Job answered the LORD, and said, I know that thou canst do every thing, And that no thought can be withholden from thee. Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? Therefore have I uttered that I understood not; Things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: But now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent In dust and ashes. And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath. Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job. So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job. And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before. And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren. After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations. So Job died, being old and full of days.”
Job 42:1-10, 15-17 KJV
I’m just offering a simple observation ot appears as if someone is writing about jobs life from a perspective of great admiration as of job is a “legend of faith “ in the Hebrew Scriptures given his homeland the time of job seems attainable but the authorship seems to be at the very least a controversy that no one can say “ obviously it’s job or it absolutely couldn’t have been job “ and it really doesn’t matter if we believe it’s true we know it can from God through a holy man inspired by the Holy Ghost
“knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
2 Peter 1:20-21 KJV
God intended the book to reach us and your right it’s very edifying for Christian’s
but brother it’s wise to Observe simple things even if it corrects what we priorly thought it’s how we learn who has the answer first doesn’t matter , it’s who is willing to accept the right answer no matter where they heard it from or if they said it
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Yes I agree job is the source of the story and it’s all true and useful
The holy spirit was operating through men like Moses (who would be my guess as to who actually wrote is down because he’s given an account from the beginning and the next author becomes the prophets following Moses ( speaking of the Bible Moses is the author of all the early things we have today the first five books at what God told Moses over fourty days in the cloud and what happened during that time among the people
Akon was from the time of early to lord genesis ( which Moses authored ) he was writing bout a world that had already been wiped out by the flood and restored through Noah and his sons and then divided into lands like the land of “ uz” which job hailed from in the story
i believe like your saying job probably wrote things down which are in tbe account , and over time it became a narrative in the Hebrew Scriptures beginning with genesis which is the book of job we now possess
It most likely originated in the time of job and was included as a testimonial of faith by the Hebrew prophets an inspiring true accounting of an ancient man of God and the struggles he endured , the lessons he learned , and his friends leaned , and the victory God ultimately delivered to him after he endured his trials
The holy spirit was operating through men like Moses (who would be my guess as to who actually wrote is down because he’s given an account from the beginning and the next author becomes the prophets following Moses ( speaking of the Bible Moses is the author of all the early things we have today the first five books at what God told Moses over fourty days in the cloud and what happened during that time among the people
Akon was from the time of early to lord genesis ( which Moses authored ) he was writing bout a world that had already been wiped out by the flood and restored through Noah and his sons and then divided into lands like the land of “ uz” which job hailed from in the story
i believe like your saying job probably wrote things down which are in tbe account , and over time it became a narrative in the Hebrew Scriptures beginning with genesis which is the book of job we now possess
It most likely originated in the time of job and was included as a testimonial of faith by the Hebrew prophets an inspiring true accounting of an ancient man of God and the struggles he endured , the lessons he learned , and his friends leaned , and the victory God ultimately delivered to him after he endured his trials
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would job know the workings of this ? Or is this setting up a situation that’s leading us to what happens to job later ?
“Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? ( this is what introduces the book remember ? Gods view of job )
and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown. And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.
Now when Job's three friends ( still it’s from narrative perspective from another letter telling us the story of job )heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came every one from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him.”
Job 2:1-8, 11 KJV
“After this opened Job his mouth, ( observation perspective ) and cursed his day. And Job spake, and said,”
Job 3:1-2 KJV
I have no doubt job said what is accounted to him , but the book of jobs perspective is of one person telling the reader of an important and true story of a legend of faith and truly a righteous man
“though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.”
Ezekiel 14:14 KJV
Wow I didn’t think that was possible but apparently righteous men existed and job was one of three nd I believe he is an important figure and his life is an important record to the Hebrew d also Christian people that holds a lot of lessons and so scribes have carried it through many generations and ages so it is now a narrative in the scriptures we possess that began with job and his life and the events we read of
“And Job answered and said,”( third person perspective )
Job 12:1 KJV
“Then answered Eliphaz the Temanite, and said,”
Job 15:1 KJV
“Then Job answered and said,”
Job 16:1 KJV
someone is giving us an account of what happened from a witnesses perspective in the form of a narrative
“This was said by job , and then eliphaz said this , then job replied and said “
“Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said,”
Job 18:1 KJV
im Only saying it’s never coming from jobs perspective ( bildad the shuhite said to me “ “ I said to eliphaz and he replied to me “ it’s never from a personal perspective of job but from a storyteller recounting a true legend recounting the words of job and his friends and eventually God
“Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,”
Job 27:1 KJV
Either job is intentionally pretending not to be the author speaking in the third person ( IeSeinfeld “ jimmy is new in town , jimmy likes Elaine , jimmy wants to get Elaine’s number for a date “ yet jimmy is the speaker )
That doesn’t seem biblical it seems more like the scribes have kept the integrity of jobs life and relevant events to faith in the record and we can learn from it
I don’t know for sure not sure we can really tangibly prove our theories a lot of times but it seems to me it’s written by scribes from a narrative perspective and is recalling jobs true story from Gods perspective of job not jobs perspective of himself
“Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? ( this is what introduces the book remember ? Gods view of job )
and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown. And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.
Now when Job's three friends ( still it’s from narrative perspective from another letter telling us the story of job )heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came every one from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him.”
Job 2:1-8, 11 KJV
“After this opened Job his mouth, ( observation perspective ) and cursed his day. And Job spake, and said,”
Job 3:1-2 KJV
I have no doubt job said what is accounted to him , but the book of jobs perspective is of one person telling the reader of an important and true story of a legend of faith and truly a righteous man
“though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.”
Ezekiel 14:14 KJV
Wow I didn’t think that was possible but apparently righteous men existed and job was one of three nd I believe he is an important figure and his life is an important record to the Hebrew d also Christian people that holds a lot of lessons and so scribes have carried it through many generations and ages so it is now a narrative in the scriptures we possess that began with job and his life and the events we read of
“And Job answered and said,”( third person perspective )
Job 12:1 KJV
“Then answered Eliphaz the Temanite, and said,”
Job 15:1 KJV
“Then Job answered and said,”
Job 16:1 KJV
someone is giving us an account of what happened from a witnesses perspective in the form of a narrative
“This was said by job , and then eliphaz said this , then job replied and said “
“Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said,”
Job 18:1 KJV
im Only saying it’s never coming from jobs perspective ( bildad the shuhite said to me “ “ I said to eliphaz and he replied to me “ it’s never from a personal perspective of job but from a storyteller recounting a true legend recounting the words of job and his friends and eventually God
“Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,”
Job 27:1 KJV
Either job is intentionally pretending not to be the author speaking in the third person ( IeSeinfeld “ jimmy is new in town , jimmy likes Elaine , jimmy wants to get Elaine’s number for a date “ yet jimmy is the speaker )
That doesn’t seem biblical it seems more like the scribes have kept the integrity of jobs life and relevant events to faith in the record and we can learn from it
I don’t know for sure not sure we can really tangibly prove our theories a lot of times but it seems to me it’s written by scribes from a narrative perspective and is recalling jobs true story from Gods perspective of job not jobs perspective of himself
right only Moses gave the scribes the duty of recording everything which is why it reads as a narrative also that’s one of the reasons my guess as to the author is Moses because the scribes are a product of Moses administration and job comes to us in the narrative form that is one of the identifiers of the scribes
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I would imagine it’s a compilation of all the relevant witnesses
If you and a group of friends had such an encounter it seems natural you would want to record your perspective of what happened what was said
especially in an ancient time when God still dealt with mankind without the law
And I think over the generations people just kept recounting the story and the scribes kept transcribing it into scripture
same with Moses early life moses wouldn’t have written this but by he scribes would have needed to explain who Moses was where he came from ect
The narrative parts like that are the scribes giving the historical contenders we need historical references of Moses and his birth things always take gay narrative shape because they are passed through generations beginning with when they happened o us needing to understand the story thousands of years later so the perspective becomes a narrative based on all the true witnesses of the events authored by prophets first and then copied and transcribed by the scribes sort of mass produced
If you and a group of friends had such an encounter it seems natural you would want to record your perspective of what happened what was said
especially in an ancient time when God still dealt with mankind without the law
And I think over the generations people just kept recounting the story and the scribes kept transcribing it into scripture
same with Moses early life moses wouldn’t have written this but by he scribes would have needed to explain who Moses was where he came from ect
The narrative parts like that are the scribes giving the historical contenders we need historical references of Moses and his birth things always take gay narrative shape because they are passed through generations beginning with when they happened o us needing to understand the story thousands of years later so the perspective becomes a narrative based on all the true witnesses of the events authored by prophets first and then copied and transcribed by the scribes sort of mass produced
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Some scholars say Moses is the author of Job, and others say that Job was passed down through the generations and recorded in the form we have it today around 500 B.C.. No one can nail this down for sure, which makes the mystery that much more intriguing.
Based on what I've learned so far, Job was originally composed before Moses (~2500 B.C. based on the evidence cv5 provided), and the composition was revised--perhaps by Moses and later by scribes/poets around that 500 B.C. range.
Based on what I've learned so far, Job was originally composed before Moses (~2500 B.C. based on the evidence cv5 provided), and the composition was revised--perhaps by Moses and later by scribes/poets around that 500 B.C. range.
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Yes that sounds possible to me and I agree it’s a mystery really because there’s no way for us to prove any theory
interesting for sure all I know for sure is the holy spirit is behind the book bieng in the Bible and it’s true a
and my only abseevation really was that if a person reads it it’s not written from a personal perspective it rather has the view of story tellers and scribes as most all the biblical books of the ot do
interesting for sure all I know for sure is the holy spirit is behind the book bieng in the Bible and it’s true a
and my only abseevation really was that if a person reads it it’s not written from a personal perspective it rather has the view of story tellers and scribes as most all the biblical books of the ot do
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Haley's Bible commentary supports your theory about Job possibly being Jobab referred to in Genesis:
"In a postscript to the book of Job, the Septuagint, following ancient tradition, identified Job with Jobab, the second king of Edom (Genesis: 33)."
Mr. Haley also notes that "Ancient Jewish tradition ascribed the book to Moses. We could speculate that while Moses was in the wilderness of Midian (Exodus 2:15), which bordered on the country of the Edomites, he could have heard the story of Job from Job's descendants."
I put a lot of faith in Halley's Bible Handbook as a credible Biblical reference. Henry Halley was a conservative Christian who devoted his life to studying and sharing the Word of God with others. Unlike secular "Bible" scholars, I think it's important to be a faith-based believer who is inspired by the Holy Spirit to address and resolve controversial matters with scripture.
I also find it interesting that there isn't any reference to the book of Job until Ezekiel chapter 14, and the Lord made reference about Job to Ezekiel. Perhaps God was bringing Job's story to the forefront in Ezekiel's time, yet the book of Job certainly plays a prominent role in scripture today for Christians:
12 The word of the Lord came again to me, saying: 13 “Son of man, when a land sins against Me by persistent unfaithfulness, I will stretch out My hand against it; I will cut off its supply of bread, send famine on it, and cut off man and beast from it. 14 Even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness,” says the Lord God.
If Moses composed the book of Job like the Pentateuch (aka. the Torah--Genesis through Deuteronomy), I wonder why the Jews/Israelites appear to have placed Job on the dusty bookshelf for several hundred years?
I'm surprised that David and Solomon didn't make any reference to this ancient hero/text in their literature (Psalms and Proverbs especially) since a lot of shared themes occur between the three great books that share the distinguished "wisdom literature" title.
I love how God reveals more and more to us as we grow in maturity and the ability to think and live like He does!
"In a postscript to the book of Job, the Septuagint, following ancient tradition, identified Job with Jobab, the second king of Edom (Genesis: 33)."
Mr. Haley also notes that "Ancient Jewish tradition ascribed the book to Moses. We could speculate that while Moses was in the wilderness of Midian (Exodus 2:15), which bordered on the country of the Edomites, he could have heard the story of Job from Job's descendants."
I put a lot of faith in Halley's Bible Handbook as a credible Biblical reference. Henry Halley was a conservative Christian who devoted his life to studying and sharing the Word of God with others. Unlike secular "Bible" scholars, I think it's important to be a faith-based believer who is inspired by the Holy Spirit to address and resolve controversial matters with scripture.
I also find it interesting that there isn't any reference to the book of Job until Ezekiel chapter 14, and the Lord made reference about Job to Ezekiel. Perhaps God was bringing Job's story to the forefront in Ezekiel's time, yet the book of Job certainly plays a prominent role in scripture today for Christians:
12 The word of the Lord came again to me, saying: 13 “Son of man, when a land sins against Me by persistent unfaithfulness, I will stretch out My hand against it; I will cut off its supply of bread, send famine on it, and cut off man and beast from it. 14 Even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness,” says the Lord God.
If Moses composed the book of Job like the Pentateuch (aka. the Torah--Genesis through Deuteronomy), I wonder why the Jews/Israelites appear to have placed Job on the dusty bookshelf for several hundred years?
I'm surprised that David and Solomon didn't make any reference to this ancient hero/text in their literature (Psalms and Proverbs especially) since a lot of shared themes occur between the three great books that share the distinguished "wisdom literature" title.
I love how God reveals more and more to us as we grow in maturity and the ability to think and live like He does!
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Hey brother - I was thinking about Job recently, and there's that debate out there on whether he was an actual person who lived before Moses, or he's a mythical character of fiction whose story is there to teach us lessons about patience and suffering.
The fact that he is referred to specifically in Ezekiel and the book of James indicates to me that he was an actual person:
Ezekiel 14: 14, 20
New King James Version
14 Even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness,” says the Lord God.
20 even though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live,” says the Lord God, “they would deliver neither son nor daughter; they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness.”
James 5:10-11
New King James Version
10 My brethren, take the prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering and patience. 11 Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord—that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.
I think these verses make it clear, coming right from "the Lord God" that Job was real person, and his story was a real experience.
What do you think? @cv5 has some excellent insights on this book and character in this forum.
The fact that he is referred to specifically in Ezekiel and the book of James indicates to me that he was an actual person:
Ezekiel 14: 14, 20
New King James Version
14 Even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness,” says the Lord God.
20 even though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live,” says the Lord God, “they would deliver neither son nor daughter; they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness.”
James 5:10-11
New King James Version
10 My brethren, take the prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering and patience. 11 Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord—that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.
I think these verses make it clear, coming right from "the Lord God" that Job was real person, and his story was a real experience.
What do you think? @cv5 has some excellent insights on this book and character in this forum.
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