What is a church?

[wattie]

Again, you’ve made some points that we already know, but why did you make the thread? There must’ve been some situation to spark this.

Mainly the situation of someone saying for example .. this site is their 'church ' ..or two or three Christians gathered randomly..for any purpose..is 'the church' ..or putting the radio on to hear a sermon on a Sunday morning.. is 'church'.

These may be nice things to imagine..but not how the bible defines 'the church'.

But anyways..like you say..this thread is old... no need to further elaborate.

 

[Nehemiah6]

These may be nice things to imagine..but not how the bible defines 'the church'.

"The Church" (with a capital "c" ) is not identical to any local church. It cannot be. It is the Body of Christ, consisting of children of God by faith.

But a local church may have people believing they are genuine Christians, but they have not been regenerated (born again). Only God knows their hearts. There are false brethren, false apostles, false prophets, and false teachers in many local churches, but the gullible accept them as genuine Christians. And today the apostate churches continue to believe they are OK.

Wattie, you have been ensnared in a false doctrine, so study the Scriptures and discover the truth. I agree that a Christian forum or a radio ministry cannot be called a local church. But you are mistaken in claiming that two or three Christians cannot constitute a genuine local church. Of course they are no supposed to remain just two or three, if they are actively sharing and spreading the Gospel.

 

[wattie]

"The Church" (with a capital "c" ) is not identical to any local church. It cannot be. It is the Body of Christ, consisting of children of God by faith.

But a local church may have people believing they are genuine Christians, but they have not been regenerated (born again). Only God knows their hearts. There are false brethren, false apostles, false prophets, and false teachers in many local churches, but the gullible accept them as genuine Christians. And today the apostate churches continue to believe they are OK.

Wattie, you have been ensnared in a false doctrine, so study the Scriptures and discover the truth. I agree that a Christian forum or a radio ministry cannot be called a local church. But you are mistaken in claiming that two or three Christians cannot constitute a genuine local church. Of course they are no supposed to remain just two or three, if they are actively sharing and spreading the Gospel.

Oh two or three gathered for church purposes..with the Holy Spirit 'in the midst' .. that is a local church.. I agree. I am saying if they are gathered for ANY purpose..randomly..that's not church

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

As to......... "Baptized" has nothing to do with it. "Born Again" by FAITH, and indwelled by the Holy Spirit, is what makes a person a Christian

I am not talking about the entity of all born again believers.. but the local body of believers. So baptism isn't part of salvation.. but it is a pre-requisite to join a New Testament church. All through Acts you find groups becoming churches who are already saved and get baptised before the Holy Spirit comes 'in their midst'. This is AFTER indwelling and after immersion baptism.

Chuckle!! I was baptised by Southern Baptists, so in general I'm good to go. My Wife, however was baptised in a lake in October up in MAssachusetts by an Assembly of God pastor, and so her baptism isn't "Valid" since it wasn't done by a Baptist pastor. So I can join a Baptist church, but she can't without getting re-dunked.

 

[wattie]

Chuckle!! I was baptised by Southern Baptists, so in general I'm good to go. My Wife, however was baptised in a lake in October up in MAssachusetts by an Assembly of God pastor, and so her baptism isn't "Valid" since it wasn't done by a Baptist pastor. So I can join a Baptist church, but she can't without getting re-dunked.

I was raised Methodist and baptised in that as charismatic Methodist. I was re-baptised from a pastor in an independent Baptist church. The baptism in the Methodist church I had very little idea what I was doing and their teaching was wonky.

 

[Beckworth]

By definition it’s “the called out”. Meaning called out of the world to be a special people to God. Titus 2:14 and 1 Peter 2:9.
In the New Testament there was ONLY ONE. There were no denominations ( meaning divisions) for almost 600 years. The Catholic Church has the distinction (?) of being the first denomination to disregard Jesus’s prayer for unity in John 17. I believe it was about 590 when Gregory was declared the first Pope. There was no way Peter could have been a pope when the Catholic Church was not even in existence for 500 years.
Jesus calls his “body” the church Colossians 2:24 and Colossians 1:18. Then in Ephesians 4:4 Paul says there is ONE BODY….therefore, there is one church. It’s the only one that Jesus promised to build in Matthew 16:18.
What is the church? Well, there are over 400 different sects of Christianity; all teaching different things, practicing different things and often contradicting each other. Kinda makes it hard to define the word “church” by man’s standards. However, a very clear picture of the church emerges when you take every passage about the church in the New Testament and put them all together.
Although there was just “one body”, there were many congregations of that “one body” in the first century.
Paul wrote letters to the churches of Galatia, the church at Corinth, and Thessalonica. Many letters were just addressed to Christian’s at various cities, but I’m sure there would have been churches there if there were Christian’s there. So, many, many churches in tge New Testament but all

 

[Beckworth]

By definition it’s “the called out”. Meaning called out of the world to be a special people to God. Titus 2:14 and 1 Peter 2:9.
In the New Testament there was ONLY ONE. There were no denominations ( meaning divisions) for almost 600 years. The Catholic Church has the distinction (?) of being the first denomination to disregard Jesus’s prayer for unity in John 17. I believe it was about 590 when Gregory was declared the first Pope. There was no way Peter could have been a pope when the Catholic Church was not even in existence for 500 years.
Jesus calls his “body” the church Colossians 2:24 and Colossians 1:18. Then in Ephesians 4:4 Paul says there is ONE BODY….therefore, there is one church. It’s the only one that Jesus promised to build in Matthew 16:18.
What is the church? Well, there are over 400 different sects of Christianity; all teaching different things, practicing different things and often contradicting each other. Kinda makes it hard to define the word “church” by man’s standards. However, a very clear picture of the church emerges when you take every passage about the church in the New Testament and put them all together.
Although there was just “one body”, there were many congregations of that “one body” in the first century.
Paul wrote letters to the churches of Galatia, the church at Corinth, and Thessalonica. Many letters were just addressed to Christian’s at various cities, but I’m sure there would have been churches there if there were Christian’s there. So, many, many congregations in the New Testament but just one “body” or church..

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I was raised Methodist and baptised in that as charismatic Methodist. I was re-baptised from a pastor in an independent Baptist church. The baptism in the Methodist church I had very little idea what I was doing and their teaching was wonky.

When in doubt, it doesn't hurt.
The Lord is looking for that following salvation.

Last weekend was a blessing. A friend was baptized in the states largest baptistery, Summerville Lake.
Unfortunately, my phone was inadvertently baptized too.
The screen went black. Even a Campbellite pastor would say the phone wasn't saved.
💦📱😅 Too long under water.
That's the first convert that I lost that way.

 

[wattie]

When in doubt, it doesn't hurt.
The Lord is looking for that following salvation.

Last weekend was a blessing. A friend was baptized in the states largest baptistery, Summerville Lake.
Unfortunately, my phone was inadvertently baptized too.
The screen went black. Even a Campbellite pastor would say the phone wasn't saved.
💦📱😅 Too long under water.
That's the first convert that I lost that way.

Yeah.. I've put a cell phone thru the wash accidentally. Baptised it goooood.

Came out clean as whistle. Working though? Not a chance!

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Yeah.. I've put a cell phone thru the wash accidentally. Baptised it goooood.

Came out clean as whistle. Working though? Not a chance!

Sorry to hear that.
Like me, you might have had a lot of important information that can't be replaced.
I was just thinking recently that I really need to transfer all those files, pictures and video recordings to a reliable place.

 

[wattie]

Sorry to hear that.
Like me, you might have had a lot of important information that can't be replaced.
I was just thinking recently that I really need to transfer all those files, pictures and video recordings to a reliable place.

At the time it wasn't a smart phone..the old motorola and i had written my phone contacts down on a sheet of paper, so it wasn't so bad. But still gotta pay for another phone

 

[wattie]

Early christians practiced re-baptism. Especially people who were Roman Catholics, wanting to get back to sola fide and rejecting their rituals. They would find a christian community of ana-baptists and join them.. getting re-baptised.

Ana-baptists is a broad term.. and covers a wide range of mostly christians. Not all were biblically sound, but among them were christians preserving the truth of God's Word from very early on.

 

[FredVB]

Well all believers.. could be conceived as a body.. but that isn't how the bible defines the body of Christ. It's local in Matthew 16:18-- because it is local in Mathew 18: 18-20.

It is local in Ephesians, because the letter is to the church at Ephesus.. as an example to other churches plural. The 'general assembly' in Ephesians.. is either the Ephesus church or the future church in heaven.
It's local in Revelation.. with the seven churches as examples of churches overcoming issues in themselves.
It's local in Galations .. it being addressed to the churches of Galatia.
In Acts-- it's local initially with the church at Jerusalem.. and then with other church references.. such as Paul renting a synagogue for his church.
It's local in 1 and 2 Timothy.. as Timothy being encouraged by Paul as a pastor of a church.

There will be a time when all believers are actually one body.. but that isn't the case now. A church assembles. A body of Christ of all redeemed does not assemble.

All redeemed are obviously an entity themselves.. that is the Family of God. A family.. does not need to assemble to be a family.

From Arthur Pink in Churches of God:

"Now the kind of church which is emphasized in the N.T. is neither invisible nor universal; but instead, visible and local. The Greek word for “church” is ecclesia, and those who know anything of that language are agreed that the word signifies “An Assembly.” Now an “assembly” is a company of people who actually assemble. If they never “assemble,” then it is a misuse of language to call them “an Assembly.” Therefore, as all of God’s people never have yet assembled together, there is today no “universal Church” or “Assembly.” That “Church” is yet future; as yet it has no concrete or corporate existence."

Alright. Church generally mentioned in the Bible, ecclesia, is referring to a local assembly of believers. If we mean the whole body of believers it is better to say that, or the body of Christ, for being clear. Yet as you mentioned there is the church in heaven, the bride of Christ, so that would be the church now, and not one assembly or congregation the way church is meant much more generally.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Yeah.. I've put a cell phone thru the wash accidentally. Baptised it goooood.

Came out clean as whistle. Working though? Not a chance!

Have you tried replacing the battery?

 

[wattie]

Have you tried replacing the battery?

That was 20 years ago! So uhhh..... no.

But good advice! 😉

 

[wattie]

Alright. Church generally mentioned in the Bible, ecclesia, is referring to a local assembly of believers. If we mean the whole body of believers it is better to say that, or the body of Christ, for being clear. Yet as you mentioned there is the church in heaven, the bride of Christ, so that would be the church now, and not one assembly or congregation the way church is meant much more generally.

People use phrases like 'the church of America' .. but its too nebulous. Its vague, a fog.

What do they mean? All believers in America? Then how do they know what that large of a group are saying?

If they mean the church as the institution of all churches in America.. then that entity is able to be characterized... to have a voice.

But as to all believers being a body now... they just aren't. There is no way that it is unified, assembled, and that 'if one member suffers, all suffer with it'

1 co 12 is describing the local body. Not all redeemed. Paul even calls them 'ye are the body of Christ'.

All redeemed will assemble as one church in heaven. That will be one body.

 

[montana123]

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The Church is a spiritual building of people who allow the Spirit to lead them and want to abstain from sins.

Not make excuses we are not perfect, we are only human, we cannot abstain from sin for a Spirit led life will not sin.

 

[BOY]

Matthew 18:
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them

That's the church, Where two or three are gathered

 

[FredVB]

People use phrases like 'the church of America' .. but its too nebulous. Its vague, a fog.

What do they mean? All believers in America? Then how do they know what that large of a group are saying?

If they mean the church as the institution of all churches in America.. then that entity is able to be characterized... to have a voice.

But as to all believers being a body now... they just aren't. There is no way that it is unified, assembled, and that 'if one member suffers, all suffer with it'

1 co 12 is describing the local body. Not all redeemed. Paul even calls them 'ye are the body of Christ'.

All redeemed will assemble as one church in heaven. That will be one body.

I never use the phrase 'the church of America'. There are all real believers, who are in Christ, generally, and being divided by political states is not meaningful before God. And there are local congregations that include believers, though false believers may be included with them easily, these congregations and assemblies are generally known as churches. Yet what includes real believers joined in communion would be a church, whether really large or really small. Christ promised to be among them in spirit. The bride of Christ in the end is all the real believers, from the past and all since then, together joined in communion then and afterward.

 

[GWH]

I agree with what everyone has said and would note that answering the OP question necessitates both-and thinking, because “a” church can refer both to a building where Christians gather and to a gathering of Christians and to the one spiritual body of Christ.