Understanding God’s election
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I think what clearly exists as a chronic fixed animus toward reformed theology here has led to blindness in consuming the whole message of God. Because the wall that stymies the ability to see that is a label some fix upon. Calvinism.
I think when a mind and heart that is fixed on that singular doctrine one cannot fairly and openly receive the spirit of God's wholeness and message.
Because as many remarks in this thread alone show, everything in God's word is first strained for content and ran through that judgement screen that negates scriptures message if it bears any relationship,true or not, to Calvinism.
I don't think we can be in the word if we bear animus for one word.
Just how I see it.
Thanks for your consideration of this observation.
I think when a mind and heart that is fixed on that singular doctrine one cannot fairly and openly receive the spirit of God's wholeness and message.
Because as many remarks in this thread alone show, everything in God's word is first strained for content and ran through that judgement screen that negates scriptures message if it bears any relationship,true or not, to Calvinism.
I don't think we can be in the word if we bear animus for one word.
Just how I see it.
Thanks for your consideration of this observation.
We don't disagree about ears being given. I believe there is a supernatural hearing as well as a circumcision of the heart in salvation as part of changing an individual's inclination. But in order for someone to think something is foolishness and reject it, they have to on a human level have something they believe it means to believe it is foolish and worthy of rejection. It may be from a fallen human perspective, but there is some measure of understanding. If not, what is it they consider foolish?
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As far as I remember in the gospel accounts the twelve disciples were the only folk.
That Jesus explained in detail the parables that He spoke.
Only the twelve apostles were elect for that ministry of Jesus.
Yet one was elect and non-elect at the same time.
During the personal ministry of Jesus all ears were blocked, even the twelve were hard of hearing.
Even the elect deserted Jesus during His arrest.
That Jesus explained in detail the parables that He spoke.
Only the twelve apostles were elect for that ministry of Jesus.
Yet one was elect and non-elect at the same time.
During the personal ministry of Jesus all ears were blocked, even the twelve were hard of hearing.
Even the elect deserted Jesus during His arrest.
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Hey, Magenta.
See, this is what I mean when I say that I believe you are taking certain verses out of their context. Let's look at what Jesus said:
Mat 13:10
And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
According to Jesus, those who were not hearing were those whose hearts had waxed gross or become calloused, those whose ears were dull of hearing or who were uncircumcised in their ears, and those who had repeatedly shut their eyes to the truth. In other words, these were conditions which they had brought upon themselves, and not conditions that God had somehow predestinated them to. This falls perfectly in line with what Stephen said here:
Act 7:51
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Not only were these people uncircumcised in both heart and ears, as their forefathers were, due to their persistent resisting of God's strivings with them via the Holy Ghost, but they were also stiff-necked in that they refused to even turn their heads at God's reproof. Is it possible that you cannot see this? Compare what Stephen said to what Moses said here.
Deu 10:16
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
Why did Moses instruct the Israelites to circumcise the foreskins of their hearts if it was allegedly not possible for them to do so?
I'm sorry, but to me, Calvinism is the most ridiculous thing imaginable, and it makes a mockery of the entire Bible. In other words, it portrays God and his servants as continually striving to save people who are allegedly incapable of being saved.
See, this is what I mean when I say that I believe you are taking certain verses out of their context. Let's look at what Jesus said:
Mat 13:10
And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
According to Jesus, those who were not hearing were those whose hearts had waxed gross or become calloused, those whose ears were dull of hearing or who were uncircumcised in their ears, and those who had repeatedly shut their eyes to the truth. In other words, these were conditions which they had brought upon themselves, and not conditions that God had somehow predestinated them to. This falls perfectly in line with what Stephen said here:
Act 7:51
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Not only were these people uncircumcised in both heart and ears, as their forefathers were, due to their persistent resisting of God's strivings with them via the Holy Ghost, but they were also stiff-necked in that they refused to even turn their heads at God's reproof. Is it possible that you cannot see this? Compare what Stephen said to what Moses said here.
Deu 10:16
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
Why did Moses instruct the Israelites to circumcise the foreskins of their hearts if it was allegedly not possible for them to do so?
I'm sorry, but to me, Calvinism is the most ridiculous thing imaginable, and it makes a mockery of the entire Bible. In other words, it portrays God and his servants as continually striving to save people who are allegedly incapable of being saved.
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Oh my goodness I just lost a whole bunch of stuff that I had spoken into my phone to you... anyway I will give you an example of God acting unilaterally and how that is totally twisted into meaning that we think or believe blasphemous disgusting things others want to project onto us rather than admit their error. It was pointed out that He did not ask Mary in the annunciation event, that she was informed and consented, whereas some were claiming she was asked, and refusing to admit that she wasn't. Because some pointed out the truth of the matter, it was asserted that we believed God was a rapist even though she gave her consent when informed. It may have been around that same time where people were claiming that if God acted unilaterally he was kidnapping people against their will and making a hoax of salvation and repentance. So you can possibly guess the context from that. But God acting unilaterally can be in any number of ways such as even just deciding to create the universe and mankind and give us life despite knowing He would repent of it. And yes acting in ways that draw us to Him even knowing how we feel about Him in our stony hearts and hostile minds before we come to know Him personally. While I was yet a sinner I was made alive in Christ. From everlasting, God decided that was what He was going to do with no prior input from you or me.
Romans 10:21
But as for Israel, He says, “I have spread out My hands all day long to a disobedient and obstinate people.”
Did God strive with Israel for a very long time Cameron?
They were grafted out and are reprobate as a nation, in fact, they were the enemies of Christianity.
Why would God strive with Israel who murdered the prophets, the disciples, and Jesus?
But as for Israel, He says, “I have spread out My hands all day long to a disobedient and obstinate people.”
Did God strive with Israel for a very long time Cameron?
They were grafted out and are reprobate as a nation, in fact, they were the enemies of Christianity.
Why would God strive with Israel who murdered the prophets, the disciples, and Jesus?
