Why the story of Job occurred in the 6th century.

[tttallison]

You really don't read with much discernment, do you? It's explicitly stated why God allowed Job to be afflicted: he did it to prove to satan that his accusations against Job were false. And Job proved him right. It wasn't until his "friends" came and accused him of sin, like you're doing, that he was pushed to the point that he lost it and found fault with God for afflicting him. And he was right, God did afflict him because he allowed it to happen. But the whole point of the story is that man, no matter how righteous (which Job was), is not in the place to judge, condemn or find fault with God for anything.

When Job failed his second test, he was no longer righteous.

Compare Job with Moses.

Moses---Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Job---My glory was fresh in me, and my bow was renewed in my hand. Unto me men gave ear, and waited, and kept silence at my counsel. After my words they spake not again; and my speech dropped upon them. And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide as for the latter rain. If I laughed on them, they believed it not; and the light of my countenance they cast not down. I chose out their way, and sat chief, and dwelt as a king in the army, as one that comforteth the mourners.

Notice how Moses ascribed greatness to his God, while Job ascribed greatness to Job.

What Job said about God.

Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

Job 9:22 This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.

Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.

Job 9:24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?

Job 19:7-10 Behold, I cry out of wrong, but I am not heard: I cry aloud, but there is no judgment. He hath fenced up my way that I cannot pass, and he hath set darkness in my paths. He hath stripped me of my glory, and taken the crown from my head. He hath destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and mine hope hath he removed like a tree.

What God said, Isa 45:9-10 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?

God said, Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

 

[SilverFox7]

Maybe, but it was the 6th century B.C. that Job was living in it.

I've seen estimates for Job's life spanned ~230 years or so. "After this Job lived one hundred and forty years..." (Job 42: 16). Even with a conservative estimate, the "after this" as in after he went through this trial he lived an additional 140 years. He was a mature adult with grown up children at the time calamity hit, so he was at least pushing 200 years old.

Nobody in the 6th century B.C. lived that long (unless an extreme anomaly). I believe our allotted average lifespan was set at 70 years by that time (Ps. 90:10).

Job's age points to him being pre-Moses at least.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I've seen estimates for Job's life spanned ~230 years or so. "After this Job lived one hundred and forty years..." (Job 42: 16). Even with a conservative estimate, the "after this" as in after he went through this trial he lived an additional 140 years. He was a mature adult with grown up children at the time calamity hit, so he was at least pushing 200 years old.

Nobody in the 6th century B.C. lived that long (unless an extreme anomaly). I believe our allotted average lifespan was set at 70 years by that time (Ps. 90:10).

Job's age points to him being pre-Moses at least.

That would put him around the time of the scattering of the nations at Babel or within a few generations after. Peleg, whose name means divided, lived 209 years, and scripture says he lived in the days when the land was divided, which suggests the division of peoples into nations at Babel.

 

[Cameron143]

That would put him around the time of the scattering of the nations at Babel or within a few generations after. Peleg, whose name means divided, lived 209 years, and scripture says he lived in the days when the land was divided, which suggests the division of peoples into nations at Babel.

It could also mean the actual separation of the land into continents.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It could also mean the actual separation of the land into continents.

The bible would witness of such a catastrophic event, and it does somewhat on day 3 of creation, but is silent after that.

 

[Cameron143]

The bible would witness of such a catastrophic event, and it does somewhat on day 3 of creation, but is silent after that.

God often understates things in the Bible. Read Genesis 1:16...He made also the stars. Two and a half billion stars in our galaxy alone, yet God says...He made also the stars.
And your assumption that it must be catastrophic isn't warranted. It's merely an assumption.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

God often understates things in the Bible. Read Genesis 1:16...He made also the stars. Two and a half billion stars in our galaxy alone, yet God says...He made also the stars.
And your assumption that it must be catastrophic isn't warranted. It's merely an assumption.

If the separation of the continents happened in the time frame your're suggesting, it would be extremely violent with catastrophic earthquakes. I don't think you understand how plate tectonics works

 

[Cameron143]

If the separation of the continents happened in the time frame your're suggesting, it would be extremely violent with catastrophic earthquakes. I don't think you understand how plate tectonics works

Sure I do. I'm betting God does too. The thing about God is that He is able to control these things with a simple...Peace! Be still!

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Sure I do. I'm betting God does too. The thing about God is that He is able to control these things with a simple...Peace! Be still!

Naive and unrealistic.

 

[Cameron143]

Naive and unrealistic.

And yet it literally says the earth was divided.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

And yet it literally says the earth was divided.

It says the land (אֶרֶץ 'erets) was divided. That apparently is the time when God gave the rebellious angels dominion over the earth by dividing the land amongst them to rule over. That's why every nation had its own god

When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God. Deuteronomy 32:8​

​

H776 אֶרֶץ 'erets (eh'-rets) n-f.
1. The Land (at large), the domain so named by Yahweh.
2. (by partition) a land.

 

[Cameron143]

It says the land (אֶרֶץ 'erets) was divided. That apparently is the time when God gave the rebellious angels dominion over the earth by dividing the land amongst them to rule over. That's why every nation had its own god

When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God. Deuteronomy 32:8​

​

H776 אֶרֶץ 'erets (eh'-rets) n-f.
1. The Land (at large), the domain so named by Yahweh.
2. (by partition) a land.

Good try, but your translation is faulty. The contexts are different in Genesis 10 and Deuteronomy 32. One is a division of land and the other a division of the sons of Adam. It's not a reference in Deuteronomy to angels but men.

I'll have to investigate further to understand the reference to angels, but the separation is of men.

Genesis 10:25...erat...earth.
Deuteronomy 32:8...goyim...people group.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Good try, but your translation is faulty. The contexts are different in Genesis 10 and Deuteronomy 32. One is a division of land and the other a division of the sons of Adam. It's not a reference in Deuteronomy to angels but men.

I'll have to investigate further to understand the reference to angels, but the separation is of men.

Genesis 10:25...erat...earth.
Deuteronomy 32:8...goyim...people group.

Angels is the LXX reading. It's the only one that makes sense out of the 3 different versions found in the Dead Sea scrolls, Masoretic Text and LXX

Are you intent on derailing this thread with your nitpicking?

 

[Cameron143]

Angels is the LXX reading. It's the only one that makes sense out of the 3 different versions found in the Dead Sea scrolls, Masoretic Text and LXX

Are you intent on derailing this thread with your nitpicking?

My goal isn't to derail anything. I found this to be an interesting conversation and have profited from it. I had hoped the same for you.
Grace and peace.

 

[tttallison]

It has been said that the age of Job makes the time for the book early. But does it?

One problem that arises is the difference between the Masoretic text and the text of the Vatican manuscript.

The Vatican text in Job 42:16 says Job was given 170 extra years making his life span total 240 years.

The Masoretic text in Job 42:16 says Job lived and extra 140 years with no total given.

We can summarily throw the Vatican text out as corrupted and having no chain of evidence. There is no corroborating manuscript with a chain of evidence to justify considering this text. I have a book in my library published in 1750 that testifies to a book written in 1580 and published by Lucas Burgensis stating that the Vatican edition of the Septuagint is taken from Vaticanus 1209. He states further that due to being reinked it had lost its value, since those performing the work didn't confine themselves to the old letters, but placed other ones in their room.

This leaves us with the text of the King James Bible. Job was given an addition of a 140 years. You must remember that Job was given twice as much as he had before. Was Job given a double lifespan?

Psalm 90:10The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

If you double 70 years you end up with 140 years.

2Ch 24:15 But Jehoiada waxed old, and was full of days when he died; an hundred and thirty years old was he when he died. 840 B.C. approximately.

David died at 70 years. 1015 B.C.

 

[stilllearning]

It could also mean the actual separation of the land into continents.

I myself went back and forth between could that be the land divided into continents or the division of people by language. For me here is the conclusion I came to just because it weighed heavier to me in that direction.

Eber named his son Peleg because it means to divide or separate. Genesis 10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

The word divided here is palag and it means to divide or to split.

In Psalms 55 David is crying out to God as he had done before about being oppressed by enemies and wicked men. With scholars saying this was concerning Absalom and those with him. Not quoting the whole Psalm but some verses for context.

Psalms 55:2-3

2Attend unto me, and hear me: I mourn in my complaint, and make a noise;

3Because of the voice of the enemy, because of the oppression of the wicked: for they cast iniquity upon me, and in wrath they hate me.

Psalms 55:12-14

12For it was not an enemy that reproached me; then I could have borne it: neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; then I would have hid myself from him:

13But it was thou, a man mine equal, my guide, and mine acquaintance.

14We took sweet counsel together, and walked unto the house of God in company.

So some context. So in this Psalm David in verse 9 says this.

Destroy, O Lord, and divide their tongues: for I have seen violence and strife in the city.

The word divide is of course palag which is only used 4 times in the bible

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6385.htm

So anyway I concluded that David was asking God to disperse them. To do what he had done prior to wicked men and divide them by language referring directly to what God had done at Babel. So anyway this is why I lean towards the dividing was of tongues and nations rather than continental.

 

[Magenta]

Psalm 55:12-14~ It is not an enemy who insults me...

 

[Cameron143]

I myself went back and forth between could that be the land divided into continents or the division of people by language. For me here is the conclusion I came to just because it weighed heavier to me in that direction.

Eber named his son Peleg because it means to divide or separate. Genesis 10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

The word divided here is palag and it means to divide or to split.

In Psalms 55 David is crying out to God as he had done before about being oppressed by enemies and wicked men. With scholars saying this was concerning Absalom and those with him. Not quoting the whole Psalm but some verses for context.

Psalms 55:2-3

2Attend unto me, and hear me: I mourn in my complaint, and make a noise;

3Because of the voice of the enemy, because of the oppression of the wicked: for they cast iniquity upon me, and in wrath they hate me.

Psalms 55:12-14

12For it was not an enemy that reproached me; then I could have borne it: neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; then I would have hid myself from him:

13But it was thou, a man mine equal, my guide, and mine acquaintance.

14We took sweet counsel together, and walked unto the house of God in company.

So some context. So in this Psalm David in verse 9 says this.

Destroy, O Lord, and divide their tongues: for I have seen violence and strife in the city.

The word divide is of course palag which is only used 4 times in the bible

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6385.htm

So anyway I concluded that David was asking God to disperse them. To do what he had done prior to wicked men and divide them by language referring directly to what God had done at Babel. So anyway this is why I lean towards the dividing was of tongues and nations rather than continental.

I appreciate you sharing. My focus was on the words employed. The term used for land actually means the physical land itself. Another passage in Deuteronomy was referenced the word there actually means people groups. Do you know the meaning of the words used in the passages you shared?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Destroy, O Lord, and divide their tongues: for I have seen violence and strife in the city.

So anyway I concluded that David was asking God to disperse them. To do what he had done prior to wicked men and divide them by language referring directly to what God had done at Babel. So anyway this is why I lean towards the dividing was of tongues and nations rather than continental.

Division of tongues causes confusion, which destroys unity of vision and purpose.

And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore is the name of it called Babel [means confusion]; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. Genesis 11:6-9​

​

Confusion negatively impacts mental health, and by extension physical health. That is why IMO Peleg's lifespan (239 years) was cut almost in half of that of his father (464 years). In the entire list of genealogies in Genesis 11, there's not such a sharp decrease in lifespans between adjacent generations like this one. That's another reason I think division of the land pertains to the division of tongues.

And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg: And Eber lived after he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters. And Peleg lived thirty years, and begat Reu: And Peleg lived after he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters. Genesis 11:16-19​

​

 

[stilllearning]

I appreciate you sharing. My focus was on the words employed. The term used for land actually means the physical land itself. Another passage in Deuteronomy was referenced the word there actually means people groups. Do you know the meaning of the words used in the passages you shared?

The word is erets which means Earth, land, ground, country, territory.

Usage: The Hebrew word "erets" is a versatile term used extensively throughout the Old Testament. It primarily denotes the physical earth or land, encompassing everything from the entire planet to specific regions or territories. It can refer to the ground or soil, a country or nation, and even the people inhabiting a land. The term is often used in contrast to "shamayim" (heavens), highlighting the distinction between the earthly and the divine realms.

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/776.htm

When a word can be used several ways I just go to the lexicon which lists just how the word is being used it's meaning. The Lexicon does not list exactly for Genesis 10:25, however for other uses of the word erets in Genesis 10 it does.

2 land =
a. country, territory, שִׁנְעָר ׳א Genesis 10:10, מִצְרַיִם ׳א Genesis 21:21; compare also Genesis 10:11; Genesis 11:28,31; Genesis 13:10; Genesis 47:6,27; Genesis 50:8; Isaiah 7:18; Isaiah 23:1; Isaiah 23:13; Isaiah 27:13; Psalm 78:12; Jeremiah 25:20; 1 Chronicles 1:43; personified Isaiah 62:4; Ecclesiastes 10:16,17.

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/776.htm

Genesis 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands /erets; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

Genesis 10:10-11

10And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land/erets of Shinar.

11Out of that land/erets went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,

So for me between how the word divided was used with tongues and the word land/erets is used in the whole of Genesis 10, I concluded that verse 25 would fit in with division by language and nations bro.