Understanding God’s election
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This is why they obfuscate and try to sound like mainstream Christianity. This is the inevitable conclusion of the calvies.
This truth about Calvinism doesn't "sell" to the majority and they know it.
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John Calvin
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by the eternal *GOOD PLEASURE* of god though the reason does not appear, they are *NOT FOUND* but *MADE* worthy of destruction. – (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of god pg 121)
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Calvies realize that their "truth" will be rejected. So they are "stealthy" with their wording.
They say over and over that 6x2=12. And If you point out the fact that, well then, 12/2=6....they scream you don't understand! You misrepresent what we believe!
This truth about Calvinism doesn't "sell" to the majority and they know it.
~~~~
John Calvin
-quote
by the eternal *GOOD PLEASURE* of god though the reason does not appear, they are *NOT FOUND* but *MADE* worthy of destruction. – (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of god pg 121)
~~~~
Calvies realize that their "truth" will be rejected. So they are "stealthy" with their wording.
They say over and over that 6x2=12. And If you point out the fact that, well then, 12/2=6....they scream you don't understand! You misrepresent what we believe!
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I totally agree. In fact, since you brought up Nicodemus, permit me to add observations I have made in that passage -- and it's something that most people don't see in the passage. Jn 3:3 reads:
John 3:3
3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
NIV
This text is devastating to FWT in a couple of ways. The first important thing to observe is that the term "see" is in the present tense. Therefore, Jesus is telling Nicodemus that no one can [presently] see the invisible kingdom of God until the new birth occurs. This can be taken in at least one of two ways or two ways if Jesus was employing a double entendre. One way of understanding it is that no one can understand the kingdom or the nature of it unless he has been born again. The term "see", for this explanation, cannot be literally understood as physically seeing with our eyes since we cannot physically see anything that is invisible.
Another interpretation, that is as equally damaging to FWT, is that Jesus personifed the kingdom (as he often did) by substituting "kingdom" for the word "king". In other words, Jesus is very likely telling Nicodemus that no one can "see" Him (the KING) unless he's born again! And how ironic is this, since Jesus was standing right there in front of Nicodemus. This Pharisee certainly physically "saw" Jesus, but he did not see Him for who He truly was -- the promised Davidic King of the Jews! In other words, Nicodemus didn't understand who Jesus was and wouldn't unless he became born from above! And this is why I personally favor the double entendre interpretation. This text, therefore, is profoundly paradoxical.
Whaddya think?
John 3:3
3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
NIV
This text is devastating to FWT in a couple of ways. The first important thing to observe is that the term "see" is in the present tense. Therefore, Jesus is telling Nicodemus that no one can [presently] see the invisible kingdom of God until the new birth occurs. This can be taken in at least one of two ways or two ways if Jesus was employing a double entendre. One way of understanding it is that no one can understand the kingdom or the nature of it unless he has been born again. The term "see", for this explanation, cannot be literally understood as physically seeing with our eyes since we cannot physically see anything that is invisible.
Another interpretation, that is as equally damaging to FWT, is that Jesus personifed the kingdom (as he often did) by substituting "kingdom" for the word "king". In other words, Jesus is very likely telling Nicodemus that no one can "see" Him (the KING) unless he's born again! And how ironic is this, since Jesus was standing right there in front of Nicodemus. This Pharisee certainly physically "saw" Jesus, but he did not see Him for who He truly was -- the promised Davidic King of the Jews! In other words, Nicodemus didn't understand who Jesus was and wouldn't unless he became born from above! And this is why I personally favor the double entendre interpretation. This text, therefore, is profoundly paradoxical.
Whaddya think?
I've already told you...the revelation of the Father of the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. And Jesus gave an example of it...Peter...Matthew 16.
He also gives an example of some who recognize Jesus in the same...Matthew 7...who are not saved. He tells why...I never knew you.
True salvation always has an attending spiritual element present.
What do you think it means that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation?
He also gives an example of some who recognize Jesus in the same...Matthew 7...who are not saved. He tells why...I never knew you.
True salvation always has an attending spiritual element present.
What do you think it means that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation?
Yes. We agree! They were convinced of the truth. Believed. And looked.
Isa 53:6
All of us, like sheep, have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the wrongdoing of us all To fall on Him.
Acts 11:14
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Acts 16:30-31
and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
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You also have a description of us. We believed and were saved and are a witness to unbelievers.
You also have a description of "Crisis evangelism." Many look to God through intense suffering and desperation.
Good post.
Isa 53:6
All of us, like sheep, have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the wrongdoing of us all To fall on Him.
Acts 11:14
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Acts 16:30-31
and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
~~~~
You also have a description of us. We believed and were saved and are a witness to unbelievers.
You also have a description of "Crisis evangelism." Many look to God through intense suffering and desperation.
Good post.
Where in scripture were the angels commanded to make that decision? You and CV5 just LOVE reading your rubbish into God' pure, holy Word, don't you? And, yet, you project your consistent practice of eisegesis unto Reformed believers. 
You feeling bruised and battered?
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Where in scripture were the angels commanded to make that decision? You and CV5 just LOVE reading your rubbish into God' pure, holy Word, don't you? And, yet, you project your consistent practice of eisegesis unto Reformed believers.
And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more
and more in knowledge and depth of insight."
Philippians 1:9
The Reformation has turned into a great Deformation.
Speaking of eisegesis...
Now, go back into your crib and play with your rattles of irresistible grace and limited atonement.
You can't waste my time.
And do you think all who are such labelled actually are? Isn't that just a name that gets thrown around
and applied to people whether they actually are a Calvinist or not? All one has to do to "earn" such a label
is disagree with the idea of free will, which Augustine taught, among other ideas that Scripture does not
truly bear out. Oh, I get it, that many make no distinction between having and making choices, and the
FACT that the will is not free. However, failing to make that distinction does not mean it does not exist,
just like calling someone a Calvinist does not necessarily mean they are.
and applied to people whether they actually are a Calvinist or not? All one has to do to "earn" such a label
is disagree with the idea of free will, which Augustine taught, among other ideas that Scripture does not
truly bear out. Oh, I get it, that many make no distinction between having and making choices, and the
FACT that the will is not free. However, failing to make that distinction does not mean it does not exist,
just like calling someone a Calvinist does not necessarily mean they are.
I think it has validity, the double entendre interpretation. Remember Nathaniel ? Jn 1:46-49
46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
Jesus in Vs 47 Identified Nate as a Israelite indeed, no guile. Jesus was saying nate was born again spiritual Israelite, with spiritual circumcision of the heart, and so Nathaniel recognized Jesus Spiritual Kingship, similar to Peter in Matt 16:16
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ[The anointed], the Son of the living God.
46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
Jesus in Vs 47 Identified Nate as a Israelite indeed, no guile. Jesus was saying nate was born again spiritual Israelite, with spiritual circumcision of the heart, and so Nathaniel recognized Jesus Spiritual Kingship, similar to Peter in Matt 16:16
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ[The anointed], the Son of the living God.
Folks, this wanna-be resident scholar who prides himself as the smartest man in room just proved that he's a son of perdition since all the offspring of Satan are continuously bent on destroying what God builds, e.g. His Church (1Pet 5:8; Jn 10:10). (Like father, like son!) This truth, though, sadly is never obvious to the self-deceived; for unawareness is the by-product of self-deception.