Applying God's Word to Politics

[studier]

I talk to very specific people about things in actually interested in. I just ignore everything else.

Like what?

 

[Eli1]

The millennial makes some good points but her rhetoric is off the charts, almost like a boomer.
It's important to find the things we agree about.

 

[ParticularWife]

The millennial makes some good points but her rhetoric is off the charts, almost like a boomer.
It's important to find the things we agree about.

I might overcorrect, but I strive to emphasize that I don't accept the idea that most people should even have political opinions. I don't think I should be allowed to vote. This obsession with tribal political wars is dumb, it derives from a breakdown of real community, ethnic homogeneity and, especially, religion. I have an academic and eschatological background in political theory, but nobody cares, so it's just idle chatter. It's like sports, but even lamer.

 

[HeIsHere]

The millennial makes some good points but her rhetoric is off the charts, almost like a boomer.
It's important to find the things we agree about.

Generalizations are never good points really.

 

[studier]

Totally agree with you here and i especially agree with Romans 1 and your explanation that the KOG is internal and working its way outwards.
But it should never be outwards working its way inwards as is the case with Maga which has nothing to do with the KOG.

Totally agree with you again brother. What's important is to focus on the things we agree on, as i agree on many things with the major and maybe have a little laugh on the things we disagree on.
But we always remain bothers in Christ!

@GWH pointed you to TPUSA. I find it an interesting group. IMO it's Christian activism on a scale I haven't seen. I'm not sure what you mean re: MAGA and the KOG working its way inwards.

I just read some work on the Nicene Creed history. It was very interesting to see how the theological battles were breaking apart the Church and how at a few points it took an Emperor (or more) to try to keep the Church from fracturing. Brothers in Christ have a long history of battling one another. Nothing new under the sun as one famous writer wrote. It's quite a task to remain respectful.

 

[studier]

I have an academic and eschatological background in political theory, but nobody cares,

What makes you think this? Probably experience. What does your PostMil eschatology and your exposure to Theonomy and the GNorth crowd tell you about political theory?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I talk to very specific people about things I'm actually interested in. I just ignore everything else.

Ok, what are you interested in? I will make sure not to bother taking part in a conversation you're not interested and waste your time.

 

[Eli1]

Generalizations are never good points really.

Of course not, but stereotypes are funny. This is why SNL stopped being funny at around 1999 when they didn't want to stereotypes.
And generalizations are a response to other generalizations sometimes when the conversations go that route consciously or unconsciously.

 

[GWH]

Agreement is good.

I think we collectively are that stupid and much stupider would end up in deeper destruction. I've been paying some attention to such things since Bush Obama caught my eye when the homosexual issue actually made a POTUS debate stage. Whether right or wrong in anyone else's eyes, that was a Romans 1 moment for me indicating that the God turning people over to their "worthless minds" had reached a certain mass. The Obama years hit me during a time I was studying how God controls the capacity for thought in relations to His righteousness and truth. We can look back and find other Christians who were sounding various alarms in prior years as they saw certain things trending ungodly. IMO the hatred against Trump 2016 outed many things that were trying to be accomplished more in stealth. This current admin IMO shows what we're really dealing with and what has been going on for quite some time.

The KOG is internal and working its way outward. Any time human organizations gain a certain mass, the corrupting influences are part - the birds are in the branches.


I normally try to make certain I understand someone's meaning. At times this goes down to many single words someone uses. It just indicates I'm trying to have a real conversation where we're not talking past one another because we use words or phrases together while internally attaching different meanings to them. IOW, we're peaking different languages in a sense.

The Bible issue is always the same no matter what topic it is being used to address. For those of us who see it as our Standard, it seems to me all we can do is our best to seek its meaning and decide where to land on an issue. Since the unity of what represents itself as the Church on earth is so denominationalized, that quite a challenge these days as the theological sections of this forum indicate.

Amen! (The thumb up imogee just wasn't quite enough :^)

 

[Eli1]

@GWH pointed you to TPUSA. I find it an interesting group. IMO it's Christian activism on a scale I haven't seen. I'm not sure what you mean re: MAGA and the KOG working its way inwards.

I just read some work on the Nicene Creed history. It was very interesting to see how the theological battles were breaking apart the Church and how at a few points it took an Emperor (or more) to try to keep the Church from fracturing. Brothers in Christ have a long history of battling one another. Nothing new under the sun as one famous writer wrote. It's quite a task to remain respectful.

Okay, at some point during our talk here me and the major started throwing acronyms without understanding what each-other was saying. I enjoy that a lot. Not sure if the major realizes it or not, but the point here is what in the world is TPUSA?

Also to answer your question about MAGA and KOG.
KOG is an inwards inspiration by the Holy Spirit to live our lives as closest as possible to Jesus while changing the world in free-will, not through politics and especially religious politics because then we become no different than muslims who legislate their morality through extremes of the Koran.
This is why MAGA or any other political movement in history has nothing to do with the KOG and that's why we need to be aware of that distinction as Christians otherwise we'd be very confused like the trans people who also confuse their understanding of the Bible as a free-for-all understanding where anything goes.

I'm glad you mentioned the early church because back then it was an even more muddy time than today but eventually Christ's message broke through as is His will by His apostles and saints throughout history.

 

[HeIsHere]

Of course not, but stereotypes are funny. This is why SNL stopped being funny at around 1999 when they didn't want to stereotypes.
And generalizations are a response to other generalizations sometimes when the conversations go that route consciously or unconsciously.

Yes but they get old too, and I am thinking the generalizations are not an attempt at being funny, but rather elevating oneself as not part of any particular group that has caused the perceived damage.

Did SNL ever stereotype itself? I cannot remember.

 

[Eli1]

Yes but they get old too, and I am thinking the generalizations are not an attempt at being funny, but rather elevating oneself as not part of any particular group that has caused the perceived damage.

Did SNL ever stereotype itself? I cannot remember.

It's important to forgive and see things in a positive spirit which is why humor helps and yes SNL did make fun of itself which they can't touch now such as making fun of how people look, how people talk and how people dress.

 

[HeIsHere]

It's important to forgive and see things in a positive spirit which is why humor helps and yes SNL did make fun of itself which they can't touch now such as making fun of how people look, how people talk and how people dress.

I rarely watched it so thanks for the info.

Seeing things in a positive light only goes so far on some issues ... you seem to take the trans issue fairly seriously..... if one travels down that road too far "darkness becomes light and light becomes darkness" but that is just how I see.

 

[studier]

Okay, at some point during our talk here me and the major started throwing acronyms without understanding what each-other was saying. I enjoy that a lot. Not sure if the major realizes it or not, but the point here is what in the world is TPUSA?

Sorry. I've joined the just Google it crowd for some things. Try Charliekirk.com also. Christian youth political activism on steroids relatively speaking. Probably the Rush Limbaugh replacement.

I'm going to read your next statements and answer separately.

 

[Eli1]

I rarely watched it so thanks for the info.

Seeing things in a positive light only goes so far on some issues ... you seem to take the trans issue fairly seriously..... if one travels down that road too far "darkness becomes light and light becomes darkness" but that is just how I see.

Understood. We all have unique personalities like the apostles did.
The trans issue is a manifestation of extreme ideologies going unchecked for a few years, which then gives rise to an equal counter response by the society to squash it.
I think we both said that history repeats itself right? And to relate it to this thread, earthly politics have nothing to do with God.
We have the Kingdom of God in us, here and now which is something we can show to our closest friends and relatives because we as individuals can't change the world.
Christ will save the world on His second coming.

 

[Eli1]

Sorry. I've joined the just Google it crowd for some things. Try Charliekirk.com also. Christian youth political activism on steroids relatively speaking. Probably the Rush Limbaugh replacement.

I'm going to read your next statements and answer separately.

Ah okay, thank you.
Okay look, i agree with many points in the conservative crowd, i agree with many points in Project 25 too.
But, and this is the key, i don't confuse them with the Kingdom of God. This is what gives the major, a major headache.
He wants to sell me a package that the KOG is the same as conservative ideals in USA. There's no such thing.
It's simple confusion. Similar confusion with the trans crowd where they take some passages out of the Bible to justify their sins.

 

[GWH]

@GWH pointed you to TPUSA. I find it an interesting group. IMO it's Christian activism on a scale I haven't seen. I'm not sure what you mean re: MAGA and the KOG working its way inwards.

I just read some work on the Nicene Creed history. It was very interesting to see how the theological battles were breaking apart the Church and how at a few points it took an Emperor (or more) to try to keep the Church from fracturing. Brothers in Christ have a long history of battling one another. Nothing new under the sun as one famous writer wrote. It's quite a task to remain respectful.

I just posted on the KISSed HOB thread requesting input regarding the Nicene Creed if you would like to share there. Thanks.

 

[studier]

KOG is an inwards inspiration by the Holy Spirit to live our lives as closest as possible to Jesus while changing the world in free-will, not through politics and especially religious politics because then we become no different than muslims who legislate their morality through extremes of the Koran.
This is why MAGA or any other political movement in history has nothing to do with the KOG and that's why we need to be aware of that distinction as Christians otherwise we'd be very confused like the trans people who also confuse their understanding of the Bible as a free-for-all understanding where anything goes.

Some random thoughts and questions in response.

• There are always many interpretations of things as we work to narrow down to truth and reality. There is also in the KOG discussion, the concept that the internal KOG is working at a level that is not a work in the world. For example, don't be angry vs. don't murder. Christ is being internalized to conform Christians to His likeness. Ultimately this is God's will for all mankind and is a way of looking at an elaborated meaning of 1Tim2:4 that @GWH uses a lot.
• As the KOG is being developed within, it is to spread without. Behind the individual, if we take one of @ParticularWife desires for community and we have the KOG within ideally all, then we have a small collective of the KOG - a.k.a. Christ's Ekklesia (community instead of "church") manifesting Righteousness outwardly. I'm not using "morality" because even though we use it widely, it is not a word God appropriated in our Text and probably for good reason since what I've just described being developed within Christians is beyond human viewpoint morality.
• I guess a question as it relates to politics, is, 'when we Christians have God's Standards and know that God has instilled them in mankind (i.e. you shall not murder), then why do we not function as salt and light (another thing @GWH speaks of frequently) in the nation we've been born into in time and space according to God, and promote God's standards in the secular realm. The earth is our Lord's, it's KING. We're not forcing others to be Christians but standing for God's Standards that He's placed in the conscience of His creatures and codified for a specific culture of them.
  • I don't know if you're familiar with Theonomy that @ParticularWife mentioned, but this is the basic question it asked, 'By What Standard?' As I read it and was involved in some of the discussions online, for some who considered it worthy of discussion, it became one of 'how do we read and interpret God's Law?' IOW, it's pretty simple to say that 'Do not murder' should be universal among men, but what about the rest of the Mosaic Code?
  • For some of us dealing with secular society just meant I don't want you trying to murder me or steal my wife and if you do then I want a culture structured to deal with your or providing for me to deal with you and backing me up depending upon the circumstances. You can apply this conceptually to many issues we're dealing with today, i.e. I don't want you in a public restroom with my daughter and you best not go there.
  • Is this an outworking of the KOG to some degree? Is it salt and light preserving a culture and in effect saying there is a God whose Standards need to be preserved on earth (while some of us know the KOG is being developed within us that is far more in depth than these basic morality issues?).
• From there, we can discuss what MAGA is really about. And then we have to have agreement on terms like 'Christian Nationalism' & 'Theocracy' and such because these are phrases thrown at such ideologies to try to discredit them.
  • Since we live in a nation that votes (whatever we think of such a political theory), do we want:
    • Cheating in elections?
    • Men in little girls restrooms?
    • Criminals looting the national treasury?
    • Criminal takeover of the justice system?
    • Etc, etc, etc?
  • Why is the US political theory not an allowance of God to teach us how to think and function in a form of Gov't that provides for us to learn to consider issues from a Biblical viewpoint and decide accordingly? It may be quite a teaching tool even if it exposes how poorly we are collectively at doing it well. It also may reveal some who are fairly good at it and thus have learned from Him.

Just some thoughts to see where we can take this.

 

[studier]

He wants to sell me a package that the KOG is the same as conservative ideals in USA. There's no such thing.

Same or some of the same resulting Standards?

 

[Eli1]

@studier first of all thank you for the well-written and intelligent post.
I agree with you in almost all the points and these are points which i have mentioned here before many times. We can discuss them further and i don't mind repeating myself but i can tell you with all my heart that i agree with you on almost all the points.

However, to stay a bit focused on the topic since we agree on everything else, we need to understand our "confusion" of mixing earthly politics with the KOG.
This is why i mentioned to you the examples of two christian nations (Greece and USA) in relation to their approach on abortion.
We need to distinguish that implementing something into law based on our understanding of the Bible is very different from exhibiting our love for God in free-will to a secular audience and even within ourselves as Christians as evidenced with the example of two nations (Greece and USA) having a different stance on abortion which many Christians in USA want to link a lawful and biblical angle to it.
This is what we need to separate and understand.

Having this sort of "blind" righteousness can lead inevitably anyone into extremes as it's shown in Muslim countries or even at other points in history where the Christian church itself prosecuted free-minds for their observations of reality, morality and free will.
This is why we can never confuse the KOG for which Christ told us it's in us when we accept Him, with some topic-of-the-day in politics at this point in history while we're alive and at this corner of the globe.

Many nations, Christian or not, will legislate their country based on tolerance. When the tolerance shifts and becomes intolerant then societies correct themselves. This is how it's always been in history including atheist nations.
This is why i also support Trump, Maga and conservatives because they are a reaction to the extremity of the left. But, they or other men before them in history have nothing to do with the Kingdom of God that Christ told us about.
And to bring this home to the topic, Christ Himself did NOT establish and earthly kingdom here did He? Despite all the disappointment of many Jews who were waiting for a military commander.
This is what we need to remember. Kingdom of God and the New Jerusalem bring us home, full-circle back into The Garden conditions of Adam and Eve in the presence of God. Where we can see, hear and touch God and be forever at peace and joy (which begins here and now by having KOG in our hearts) and where we will understand (hopefully) many mysteries of existence (1 John 3:2 ) which we don't understand here and now such as What is free-will or What is an incorruptible body How was the universe created and many many other topics.
We will be home but with more appreciation due to our growth and free-will.