Shroud of Turin—real or fake, and why?

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Let me ask you this. If someone goes around teaching false doctrine, does it matter? Well, if someone is teaching false doctrine in Christ's name, how is that any different from making false claims about a relic that supposedly bears an image of Christ?

I agree, the shroud itself is of no consequence; however, what matters is weather it's a lie or truth.

Of Course, Yes it does matter.

Both in Old Testament and New Testament we are repeated;y warned about false signs and wonders. In fact the Man of Lawlessness will use many false signs and wonders. And in the world we already have many false signs and wonders, one being the Shroud of Turin. And with all these false signs and wonders most believers remain adamant there is yet no Man of Lawlessness.

Pope expresses gratitude for exposition of the Shroud of Turin
Pope Francis writes to the Archbishop of Turin thanking him for the decision to display the Shroud of Turin during a livestreamed prayer service on Holy Saturday,
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/...de-for-exposition-of-the-shroud-of-turin.html

Can you spot the Man of Lawlessness??????

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

The Shroud of Turin, also known as the Holy Shroud , is a length of linen cloth bearing the negative image of a man.

Exodus 20:4-5 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

PRAYER INFRONT OF THE HOLY SHROUD OF TURIN
https://www.facebook.com/ArmaChrist...-christ-through-your-passio/2906509339467094/

Prayer is worship.

Pope bows and prays before the Shroud of Turin

 

[Eli1]

As someone who would love to know what Jesus looked like, i am aware of the shroud of Turin since it's been the most studied object and i do know that it's not a piece of cloth from 2000 years ago.
But, today there's some news on this which says that it is 2000 years old based on x-ray methods which can give an estimate on time.

Personally, i think they want to hype this up because they want it back on the news because the method is not accurate at all.

https://metro.co.uk/2024/08/20/scie...us-buried-in-make-huge-breakthrough-21454792/

 

[Nehemiah6]

Personally, i think they want to hype this up because they want it back on the news because the method is not accurate at all.

It seems that way. The Catholic Church believes that it is authentic, but they have always promoted relics.

 

[Gideon300]

As someone who would love to know what Jesus looked like, i am aware of the shroud of Turin since it's been the most studied object and i do know that it's not a piece of cloth from 2000 years ago.
But, today there's some news on this which says that it is 2000 years old based on x-ray methods which can give an estimate on time.

Personally, i think they want to hype this up because they want it back on the news because the method is not accurate at all.

https://metro.co.uk/2024/08/20/scie...us-buried-in-make-huge-breakthrough-21454792/

My main objection is that it does not match scripture. Isaiah says that the face of Jesus was disfigured more than any man. I had a friend who went through the windscreen of his car. I was shocked at his appearance. Jesus was worse than that. The shroud does not reflect that.

 

[Magenta]

Isaiah says that the face of Jesus was disfigured more than any man.

Isaiah 52:14 “Just as there were many who were appalled at him – his appearance was
so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness-“

Isaiah 53:2b-3

 

[shittim]

new video-

 

[ZNP]

When I taught forensics I picked three examples for forensic studies and we did a month long dive in each one. JFK assassination, 911 and the Shroud of Turin.

JFK obviously a good example of an assassination with just a whole lot of evidence left behind.

911 was both an engineering problem, a fire problem and a bomb problem.

Shroud of Turin was an example of studying artifacts to determine if they are authentic. More studies have been done on the Shroud of Turin than any other artifact. As one of the investigators said, they would have authenticated it long ago if it were not for the fact that the implication of authenticating it was so big.

Personally I became convinced it is authentic. But what I would tell others is that either this item is authentic or we are dealing with the single best counterfeit in human history. If you think this was a counterfeit then you must also agree that the counterfeiter was the most stupid and foolish counterfeiter in human history. He had to have been long dead before this ever was used. I also pointed out that according to the rules of forensic analysis of artifacts no one can claim this item is a forgery. The reason is that before saying an item is a forgery you have to demonstrate how it was done and no one has been able to do that.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The reason is that before saying an item is a forgery you have to demonstrate how it was done and no one has been able to do that.

With what we know now about nuclear physics it probably could be done, but that would take a tremendous amount of money that the world would rather spend on doing the devil's work

 

[shittim]

The L.A. Marzuli video posted on another thread mentions a way it could have been the Creators supernatural work.

 

[Leastofall]

I discredit the shroud because scripture tells us he was unrecognizable as a man.😮‍💨

 

[shittim]

That was while before He was raised.
Did you take that to the Lord as He requires?
Leaning on your own understanding would lead to this error.
The "Holy Fire" theory as put forth by our brother L.A. Marzuli would explain the restoration.
best wishes

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I discredit the shroud because scripture tells us he was unrecognizable as a man.😮‍💨

That's not what Isaiah 52:14 says

 

[ParticularWife]

Maybe this is just me being more Baptist than Keach, but I genuinely don't know that it matters if it's legitimate, a fraud, or really old but just some random dude. I don't believe in Saints' Relicts, this thing always looked like superstitious Popery.
Our Lord in the flesh walked hither and thither all over the Promised Land and possibly elsewhere, He was an itenerant preacher, along with else He did. I still don't think that makes the dirt in Syria magic.

 

[ZNP]

Maybe this is just me being more Baptist than Keach, but I genuinely don't know that it matters if it's legitimate, a fraud, or really old but just some random dude. I don't believe in Saints' Relicts, this thing always looked like superstitious Popery.
Our Lord in the flesh walked hither and thither all over the Promised Land and possibly elsewhere, He was an itenerant preacher, along with else He did. I still don't think that makes the dirt in Syria magic.

Well the most interesting thing I see in the Shroud is something that I found very touching. Whenever you check the authenticity of an artifact you want to focus on the things that are not part of the story or part of the normal practice. Normally they take this burial cloth and cut off a strip one inch wide the length of the Shroud. It is usually around 12 feet long. You lay the body on the shroud and then fold it over the person and tie it up with that strip you cut off. What makes the Shroud of Turin unique in my opinion is that someone sewed that strip back on and it was definitely the most skilled seamstress of the day because at first glance they didn't realize this. Now if this was a fraud why would they think to do that? If this was some other person who was crucified, why would you do that? That looks like a labor of love to me.

 

[Leastofall]

That's not what Isaiah 52:14 says

So what does it mean?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

So what does it mean?

The Hebrew literally says

As many were stunned over you, so marred from man his appearance and his figure from sons of man. Isaiah 52:14​

​

The Greek (LXX) literally says

As many shall be astounded at you, so shall the sight of your appearance be despised by men, and your glory by the sons of men. Isaiah 52:14​

​

So to say he was completely unrecognizable as a man is a bit extreme.

 

[Cranberry]

We watched the Ray Downing documentary,The Real Face of Jesus, again on Christmas.

Fascinating study and I highly recommend watching it.

The research conducted on the shroud by the Downing team that were allowed to access and study a portion of the shroud found the Jesus image was saturated by photons. Light energy that emminated from within what it was wrapped around. That would be His body. And that photon energy embossed,my word,his full bodily image into the shroud fibers.

I believe the shroud is authentic.

 

[hornetguy]

The origin of the Shroud of Turin is from somewhere in the Middle Ages. Nowhere in Scripture is there any record of any of the artifacts surrounding the cross and the tomb. Chances are that those two angels who appeared at the tomb removed the evidence of Christ being laid in that tomb. Just like the Ark of the Covenant is now in Heaven (probably removed by angels also).

The Catholic church -- since its inception -- majored on superstitions, and relics were a part of those superstitions. The Shroud is is one of those relics.

Don't think it was Jesus' shroud...

 

[Leastofall]

The Hebrew literally says

As many were stunned over you, so marred from man his appearance and his figure from sons of man. Isaiah 52:14​

​

The Greek (LXX) literally says

As many shall be astounded at you, so shall the sight of your appearance be despised by men, and your glory by the sons of men. Isaiah 52:14​

​

So to say he was completely unrecognizable as a man is a bit extreme.

So do you think this is the shroud? I still disagree that it is.
People will start to worship and hold this as a holy relic like the saints bones and such.
I don't believe it's a counterfeit but a 1 in a million happenstance.