Are giants the offspring of angels and humans?

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Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
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Pennsylvania
#61
I have always believed this to be the case.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

However I have come to doubt this theory now as i've actually read the book of Enoch and it contradicts the Bible in some details, not to mention just doesn't "sound right" Doesn't sound like its from the spirit of God. I can discern that its not. You may disagree thats fine but that is where we must agree to disagree.

Jesus says: Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

How could angels coming down and fornicating with women work if this is the case?

Is there any credible alternative explanation? In the OT, "sons of God" most often means angels, doesn't it?

Help a brother out here.
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Here is my 2 cents:

Correct term is Nephilim but I would say all or most were of giant statue.

Angels are spiritual beings except when they come upon the earth at which time they take the form of flesh and blood. We would take away from scriptures if we say the angels or sons of God did not mate with the daughters of men.

Many of the Nephilim died during the flood and they became the evil spirits which bring sickness upon God.s creation.
 

Hakawaka

Active member
Jul 1, 2021
362
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#62
I use the Hebrew and since the English is mostly a translation of the Hebrew to Greek and then to English it looks butchered because compared to the authentic Hebrew the English is a butchered translation.

But I do believe it was God's will for the angels to both save Lot and destroy Sodom.
Not all of us can read hebrew though. Are you israeli by any chance? I refuse to read a language I cant speak. Looking up a lexicon isnt it either.
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,206
439
83
Pennsylvania
#63
Jude 1: 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.
 
Nov 14, 2024
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#64
I would disagree on that. I say the war in Rev 12 is past. Jesus saw satan falling from heaven in the gospel of John, which matches the description in Rev 12.

Plus Rev 12 has the birth of Jesus being described, its clearly 1st century history, which continues on as the dragon wages war upon the saints even till this day.
The heavenly war described in Revelation chapter 12 is definitely not past. Again, when it takes place, it will be the fulfillment of what Daniel prophesied here.

Dan 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Dan 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:5
Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
Dan 12:6
And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
Dan 12:7
And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

In verse 1, we see the archangel Michael, the great prince who stands for the children of Israel, stand up, and at that time, there will be a time of trouble (the great tribulation) such as never was since there was a nation, even to that same time. Furthermore, in verse 7, Daniel is told the duration of the great tribulation, and it is for a time, times, and an half, or it is a timeframe of 3 1/2 years, and this is precisely the timeframe that is being described in relation to the war in Revelation chapter 12.

Rev 12:6
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

In verse 7, we see the same archangel Michael standing up for the children of Israel (the woman in verses 6, 13, and 14) that we saw standing up in Daniel 12:1.

In verses 6, 12, and 14, we see the same exact "short time" of great tribulation, or the same exact "short time" of Satan's great wrath, and it is a timeframe of "a thousand two hundred and threescore days" (3 1/2 years), or "a time, and times, and half a time" (3 1/2 years), or the same exact "time, times, and an half" (3 1/2 years) that we read about in Daniel 12:7.

What Jesus described in Luke 10:18 (not in the gospel of John), has absolutely nothing to do with what I just accurately described here.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,081
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#65
Your statement is refuted by Rahab and Ruth.


Where is that in Scripture?


Ishmael was not the heir because he was not the son of Abraham's wife. However, Scripture doesn't tell us he was ever a "slave".
Don’t make the mistake of thinking the promise is tide to anything physical. Do you recall Rahab’s and Ruth‘s declarations? Read them and you will hear the sound of promise.
 
Nov 1, 2024
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#67
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:5
Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
Dan 12:6
And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
Dan 12:7
And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
Daniel was told to shut up and seal the scroll of the time of the end. but John was told to take the little opened scroll and prophesy its contents. It is little because it pertains only to the very brief time of the end

And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little scroll open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, Revelation 10:1-2
And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little scroll which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. Revelation 10:5-8
And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. Revelation 10:11
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,297
3,725
113
#68
The giants are coming back in the end times, during the tribulation, to rule over the ten kingdoms. They are what is described as iron mixed with clay. They are the foot of the image of the ruling kingdoms throughout human history.

These are the results of fallen angels mixing their seed with the daughters of men.
 
Nov 1, 2024
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#69
We would take away from scriptures if we say the angels or sons of God did not mate with the daughters of men.
It's a huge, and frankly silly, assumption to think a spirit that appears as a man has sex organs and can mate with humans. That's called adding to scripture
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,307
2,568
113
#71
I have always believed this to be the case.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

However I have come to doubt this theory now as i've actually read the book of Enoch and it contradicts the Bible in some details, not to mention just doesn't "sound right" Doesn't sound like its from the spirit of God. I can discern that its not. You may disagree thats fine but that is where we must agree to disagree.

Jesus says: Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

How could angels coming down and fornicating with women work if this is the case?

Is there any credible alternative explanation? In the OT, "sons of God" most often means angels, doesn't it?

Help a brother out here.
First off....
What is an angel?
What is the meaning of the word in Original Language? Hebrew? Koine Greek? Early Latin?

What jobs do they do?
The rule about "names" in the Old Testament is that names weren't tags for people....they were titles. Adam was not just a person's name it was a title like President or Duke are titles somewhat used as tags. Baker, Farmer, Tanner, and etc are also titles of occupations used as tags we are familiar with. These "titles" became more commonly known as last names..."Waxman" was the family of candlemakers.... Smith was A metalworker....horseshoes, blades or silver/gold/copper/brass or whatever. Miller was the grain grinder....Weaver made cloth or rugs....

So let's start there.....

Then there are Notable and named Angels like Gabriel. His name means "Strength of God" and his "Job" was always the foretelling about the arrival of the Messiah.
He also stands in the throne room of heaven....meaning he serves at the highest level of importance....meaning whatever he has to tell you comes directly from God.

BUT

Is God incapable of veiling Himself sufficiently? Can God not deliver a message himself? Is God limited?
 

lrs68

Active member
Dec 30, 2024
254
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#72
Not all of us can read hebrew though. Are you israeli by any chance? I refuse to read a language I cant speak. Looking up a lexicon isnt it either.
The Mosaic Torah in Bereshit 6:2 states the Divine Beings saw the human women....

The English best translation states Sons of God.

But Divine Beings is in no possible way a human being.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,297
3,725
113
#73
It's a huge, and frankly silly, assumption to think a spirit that appears as a man has sex organs and can mate with humans. That's called adding to scripture
Ask the people of Sodom and Gomorrah who wanted to have sexual relations with the angels that visited Lot. At the point of Genesis 6, the only sons of God in existence were Adam, who was a son of God, and the angels, including the angels that sinned.

Here's what I believe to be a good working definition of a son of God: Any being created of God that was sinless in its creation.

1. All the angels, cherubims, seraphims, etc.
2. Adam
3. Jesus
4. All those that believe on Jesus after the cross have power to become sons of God
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,081
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#74
The Mosaic Torah in Bereshit 6:2 states the Divine Beings saw the human women....

The English best translation states Sons of God.

But Divine Beings is in no possible way a human being.
Is Peter talking about human beings or angelic spirit-beings here:

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


The "sons of God" were priests of God Most High, like Melchizedek. This was the priesthood before the Levites were made priests at Sinai. This is the only priesthood mentioned in the scriptures before this was written:

“Also let the priests who come near the LORD consecrate themselves, lest the LORD break out against them.”

And...

Then the LORD said to him, “Away! Get down and then come up, you and Aaron with you. But do not let the priests and the people break through to come up to the LORD, lest He break out against them.”

We know, through the revelation given to the writer of Hebrews, that Christ returns us, who believe in Him, to the order of Melchizedek... the order of priesthood that existed before the law given at Sinai.

In Psalms:

“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”


And then in Hebrews:

As He also says in another place:
“You
are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek”


And...

"..where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."

These priests were the oldest living family members who walked with God. They were not determined by the flesh, they were assigned by promise: believing God and doing what God was doing.

This standard continues for the sons of God today:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner."

It may also be written like this: "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness..."

This is the "ministry of reconciliation" spoken of by Paul.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
3,075
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#75
Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every
inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time. And the LORD regretted
that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, “I will
blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—every man and beast and crawling
creature and bird of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.” Genesis 6:5-7


God established that each kind reproduces only after its own kind (Genesis 1:11-12, 21, 24-25).
Very true, but man also corrupted his self to the point God went ahead and hit reset on the whole earth. I don't believe this was only moral corruption. Also I of course agree with you and scripture here, that everything was made to reproduce with its own kind, but don't you think corrupting that order isn't in the fallen ones wheel house. Whatever it was brought about a worldwide judgement. Anyway that's just my angle, and I do believe the Gen. 6 was angels and humans coming together to make offspring, I just don't see the text making sense any other way without presups or bringing to the text.
 
Nov 1, 2024
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#76
Ask the people of Sodom and Gomorrah who wanted to have sexual relations with the angels that visited Lot. At the point of Genesis 6, the only sons of God in existence were Adam, who was a son of God, and the angels, including the angels that sinned.
The perverts of Sodom saw what they thought were men, so they wanted to do what came naturally to them. Have you ever seen a dog hump somebody's leg? According to your reasoning a leg is a dog.

The sons of God were Adam and his godly offspring, ie the genealogy listed in Genesis 5
 
Oct 24, 2012
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#77
Just saying the English is supposed to be a translation of the Hebrew that existed before the English language existed. But the English translation doesn't actually say the exact same thing as the Hebrew does.
yes, and the Greek was written by the disciples that is translated from the Greek, yet there are mistakes in translations exactly.
Bottom line
God loves us all, otherwise Son would not have been sent to save us through his death burial first that brought us all reconciliation, forgiveness to us from God Father first. We, at least me by Son are all reconciled in his one time willing death for us. he took the death for us all to believe it or not, as if you, I and all others have never sinned, even though I at least know I have and need God to lead, not me any longer learning this daily, in the risen Son given me to be.
Grow in Grace be thankful we now can get in by Father and Son as Won for me at least, I see no other way, since I'm not perfect, only Son was/is and forever is for us to be made new in this love and mercy given us to give the same love and mercy out to all, not a few, thank you
all I see as left is:
Love as you are loved by God first on that cross of Son for you, as reconciled forgiven. Do the same to all is how I see it and am not good at it
therefore I see me crucified, nevertheless I live, not by me, by God Father and Son for me
Thanks, that is how I see God in thanksgiving and praise with all sin taken out of the way as far as the east is from the west
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,080
1,529
113
#78
The giants are coming back in the end times, during the tribulation, to rule over the ten kingdoms. They are what is described as iron mixed with clay. They are the foot of the image of the ruling kingdoms throughout human history.

These are the results of fallen angels mixing their seed with the daughters of men.
scifi theology. dispensationalism's fruit
 

lrs68

Active member
Dec 30, 2024
254
92
28
#79
Is Peter talking about human beings or angelic spirit-beings here:

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


The "sons of God" were priests of God Most High, like Melchizedek. This was the priesthood before the Levites were made priests at Sinai. This is the only priesthood mentioned in the scriptures before this was written:

“Also let the priests who come near the LORD consecrate themselves, lest the LORD break out against them.”

And...

Then the LORD said to him, “Away! Get down and then come up, you and Aaron with you. But do not let the priests and the people break through to come up to the LORD, lest He break out against them.”

We know, through the revelation given to the writer of Hebrews, that Christ returns us, who believe in Him, to the order of Melchizedek... the order of priesthood that existed before the law given at Sinai.

In Psalms:

“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”


And then in Hebrews:

As He also says in another place:
“You
are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek”


And...

"..where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."

These priests were the oldest living family members who walked with God. They were not determined by the flesh, they were assigned by promise: believing God and doing what God was doing.

This standard continues for the sons of God today:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner."

It may also be written like this: "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness..."

This is the "ministry of reconciliation" spoken of by Paul.
If a Bible doesn't match the original Hebrew text it's not much of a Bible.
 

lrs68

Active member
Dec 30, 2024
254
92
28
#80
yes, and the Greek was written by the disciples that is translated from the Greek, yet there are mistakes in translations exactly.
Bottom line
God loves us all, otherwise Son would not have been sent to save us through his death burial first that brought us all reconciliation, forgiveness to us from God Father first. We, at least me by Son are all reconciled in his one time willing death for us. he took the death for us all to believe it or not, as if you, I and all others have never sinned, even though I at least know I have and need God to lead, not me any longer learning this daily, in the risen Son given me to be.
Grow in Grace be thankful we now can get in by Father and Son as Won for me at least, I see no other way, since I'm not perfect, only Son was/is and forever is for us to be made new in this love and mercy given us to give the same love and mercy out to all, not a few, thank you
all I see as left is:
Love as you are loved by God first on that cross of Son for you, as reconciled forgiven. Do the same to all is how I see it and am not good at it
therefore I see me crucified, nevertheless I live, not by me, by God Father and Son for me
Thanks, that is how I see God in thanksgiving and praise with all sin taken out of the way as far as the east is from the west
Amen!