Understanding God’s election
- Thread starter dougcho
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Those who walked away did not acknowledge and/or embrace the Truth. Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom but not the final outcome, for fear has to do with punishment, and perfect love drives out fear... and that comes as one grows in the knowledge and grace of God, after surrendering. So yes, we should all as Christians have come to that place of, where else would we go now that we know the Truth? And also be able to echo Paul, in acknowledging ourselves the worst of sinners, but many here cannot attribute to the natural man anything that even near approaches that.
No? Then why did He pour out His wrath upon Jesus.
Do you know what it means for God to be holy? How offensive sin is to God? Even the slightest of offenses is worthy of death. That's why the cross was necessary. Someone is always punished for sin. If it wasn't Jesus, it will be the individual. But no sin will go unpunished. Sin is only forgiven when it has been paid for.
Do you know what it means for God to be holy? How offensive sin is to God? Even the slightest of offenses is worthy of death. That's why the cross was necessary. Someone is always punished for sin. If it wasn't Jesus, it will be the individual. But no sin will go unpunished. Sin is only forgiven when it has been paid for.
I don't know what you mean by that, that is, just the smack on His face, or the rip of His beard, the crown on His head, or all the nails, etc. What I know for sure is I am not worthy of the love God bestowed on me. To hear some here talk, they deserve it, because that natural man guy was not so bad after all- they relate to him in such a shallow manner, they have to deny most of what is said of him. And they do.
I understand. This is how you perceive certain people that post here, but I can only guess who you're thinking of in particular. I think I've argued at least one point with everyone on this platform but wouldn't venture to fathom the depth of their relationship with Him according to their relationship with me. According to Peter, Paul was hard to understand, and I'm not absolutely certain that Paul understood Peter either.
Interesting to transfer what I called a shallow understanding of the natural man to the nature of their relationship with God. I suppose there is some correlation but I was not pointing to it. More a reference to that fact that a plethora of verses get denied regularly. I don't think they know that guy even though it is them. For some he does not seem to come much into view at all. Maybe they think of themselves as good people. Jesus said there was no such thing. It is reiterated throughout Scripture. It reminds me of the person who comes here and says they were born a Christian... or they have been one all their life. Except we know there is no such thing. It speaks of a lack of awareness.
This propensity is common to all and so it's really nothing that I care to note, even though many times I can't help but notice. I look for the smallest of anomalies found here and there, those interesting little shoots that indicate new growth, often times emerging after a slight and careful snipping... and looking forward to this...
Though I do come with full awareness that these begin a bit sour, of course.
Though I do come with full awareness that these begin a bit sour, of course.
Agreed.
Your prior wrath premise then was that God, who laid out the rule of Law and Sin poured His wrath out upon Himself because humans nature, God's creation, needed to be redeemed by His sacrificing Himself so to free Elect humans from the Sin condition God predetermined to occur in the beginning.
Your prior wrath premise then was that God, who laid out the rule of Law and Sin poured His wrath out upon Himself because humans nature, God's creation, needed to be redeemed by His sacrificing Himself so to free Elect humans from the Sin condition God predetermined to occur in the beginning.
This propensity is common to all and so it's really nothing that I care to note, even though many times I can't help but notice. I look for the smallest of anomalies found here and there, those interesting little shoots that indicate new growth, often times emerging after a slight and careful snipping... and looking forward to this...
Though I do come with full awareness that these begin a bit sour, of course.
Though I do come with full awareness that these begin a bit sour, of course.
the Bible actually says. Perhaps my expectations are too high. But one can always hope...
Thats the reasoning of carnal man who rejects the ways of God, Rom 9:11-22
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
