Is Eschatology or prophecies a “salvation issue”?

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Nov 14, 2024
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#41
I'm not sure what's going on between you two, but I think he merely meant that heaven isn't our eternal home.
That is exactly what I meant. According to a multitude of scriptures, heaven is not the Christian's eternal home. Initially, a Christian will go to be with Jesus in heaven when he or she dies. Then a Christian will return to this earth in a glorified body with Jesus at his second coming in order to reign with him for 1000 years during his Millennial Reign. Finally, the new heaven, new earth, and new Jerusalem will come, and that is where the Christian will spend eternity.

What is going on between me and this poster? Simply this. He posted error, I pointed it out, and that allegedly makes me contentious and arrogant. Both false accusations are ridiculous and unfounded, and if he truly is a Christian, then let him repent for making them both. Far from being arrogant, I humbly accept what God's word actually teaches, and I am not swayed by the proud false teachings of others. Far from being contentious, and contention only comes by pride, I merely contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints as any Christian ought to.

If this poster is not willing to discuss the Bible, then he should find another place other than the "Bible DISCUSSION Forum" to make his posts.
 
Nov 14, 2024
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#42
With your first response, while John wasn’t talking about the end times in that verse concerning love, you’re missing the authors point as to how he is applying it to himself. He is simply saying God’s love casts out any fear that he (the author) has about those things.
I am not missing the author's point, nor was he saying that God's love casts out any fear that he (John) has about those things. Here is what John actually said.

1Jo 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1Jo 4:13
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
1Jo 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
1Jo 4:15
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1Jo 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1Jo 4:17
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1Jo 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

In verse 12, John said that if we love one another, then God dwells in us, and his love is perfected in us. This, in context, is the "perfect love" that John is talking about. In other words, it is the love of God being perfected in us as we love one another. In fact, earlier in this same epistle, John said the following.

1Jo 2:3
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jo 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jo 2:5
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

If we truly love God, then we will keep his word, and, in doing so, the love of God will be perfected in us. In other words, the proof that we truly love God will be manifest by our keeping of his word, and this, in context, is the "perfect love" that John is talking about.

Turning back to chapter 4, John said:

1Jo 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1Jo 4:17
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1Jo 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

It is the same exact principle. OUR LOVE IS MADE PERFECT ("perfect love") as we dwell in love and dwell in God who is love. It is this "perfect love" which will give the Christian "boldness in the day of judgment: BECAUSE AS HE IS, SO ARE WE IN THIS WORLD." in other words, if we are truly loving as God is loving, then we have nothing to fear on the day of judgment. Again, in context, which you, and not I, have totally ignored, this is the "perfect love" which casts out fear.

To put it in simple terms, God is love, and his law is love. If we keep that law of love, then we have nothing to fear on the day of judgment.

Now, let's see how loving you are. You have resorted to falsely accusing me of pride and arrogance for merely alluding to such a truth as this. Will you repent? Time will tell. Whatever you decide to do, know of a certainty that falsely accusing a devout, born-again Christian who has literally hazarded his life for the gospel's sake is not "loving" in God's eyes. I would deal with that if I were you.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#43
That is exactly what I meant. According to a multitude of scriptures, heaven is not the Christian's eternal home. Initially, a Christian will go to be with Jesus in heaven when he or she dies. Then a Christian will return to this earth in a glorified body with Jesus at his second coming in order to reign with him for 1000 years during his Millennial Reign. Finally, the new heaven, new earth, and new Jerusalem will come, and that is where the Christian will spend eternity.

What is going on between me and this poster? Simply this. He posted error, I pointed it out, and that allegedly makes me contentious and arrogant. Both false accusations are ridiculous and unfounded, and if he truly is a Christian, then let him repent for making them both. Far from being arrogant, I humbly accept what God's word actually teaches, and I am not swayed by the proud false teachings of others. Far from being contentious, and contention only comes by pride, I merely contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints as any Christian ought to.

If this poster is not willing to discuss the Bible, then he should find another place other than the "Bible DISCUSSION Forum" to make his posts.
Well, it seems rather contentious to me to split hairs regarding "heaven is not the Christian's eternal home" and "the new heaven... is where the Christian will spend eternity".
 
Nov 14, 2024
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#44
Well, it seems rather contentious to me to split hairs regarding "heaven is not the Christian's eternal home" and "the new heaven... is where the Christian will spend eternity".
It would not seem the least bit contentious to you or anybody else if you understood the major difference between the "heaven" that the OP was referring to and the "new heaven" that I mentioned.

The Bible indicates that there are three heavens.

Co 12:2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)
2Co 12:4
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

According to scripture, "the third heaven" is where "paradise" is currently located, and it is the place where God, Jesus, and the dead in Christ currently reside. If there is a "third heaven," and there is, then logic dictates that there must also be a first heaven and a second heaven. Here is the first heaven.

Gen 1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

According to scripture, that which we might rightly call "the first heaven" is where the fowl fly, or it is part of this earth's atmosphere. If there is a first heaven and a third heaven, and there is, then logic dictates that there must be a second heaven situated somewhere between the two of them. Here is the second heaven.

Gen 1:14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17
And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18
And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

According to scripture, that which we might rightly call "the second heaven" is where the sun, moon, and stars are, or what we might call "outer space."

In his erroneous claim, the OP was (and still is) insisting that "the third heaven" is where Christians will spend eternity, and this is not only patently false, but that "heaven" and the "new heaven" are not the same place. Consider what Peter said here.

2Pe 3:1
This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2Pe 3:2
That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe 3:3
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14
Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

In relation to scoffers in the last days who will walk after their own lusts or desires, Peter said that they will believe that "all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation" (vs. 4), but their beliefs will be unfounded. In other words, Peter said that they would be "willingly ignorant" (vs. 5) in relation to the heavens and earth of old, or in relation to the heavens and earth that we read about in the creation account in Genesis chapter 1. According to Peter, "the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" (vs. 6), or the original heavens and earth were greatly changed as a direct result of the great deluge in the days of Noah. In other words, there were both atmospheric and geological changes which took place at that time.

In fact, Peter went on to distinguish between the original heavens and earth and the heavens and earth in which you and I currently live when he said "but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men" (vs. 7). Notice "the heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW." Again, our current heavens and earth are not the original heavens and earth of Genesis chapter 1 because of the atmospheric and geological changes which occurred at the time of the great deluge in Noah's day. Not only this, but Peter said that the heavens and the earth, which are now, "are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men" (vs. 7). In other words, whereas the original heavens and earth of Genesis chapter 1 were greatly changed BY WATER as a direct result of the great deluge in Noah's day, the current heavens and earth will be greatly changed BY FIRE at some future time, and Peter went on to address it further when he said how Christians are "looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat" (vs. 12). He then added how "we," Christians, "according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness" (vs. 13). In other words, this new heavens and a new earth have absolutely nothing to do with what the Bible calls "the third heaven" (2 Cor. 12:2). Instead, they have everything to do with the heavens and the earth which have been (in Noah's day), and which will be (at a future time), affected atmospherically and geologically BY WATER (in Noah's day) and BY FIRE (at a future date).

I ran out of space, so I will have to conclude in my next post.
 
Nov 14, 2024
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#45
With these biblical truths before us, "the third heaven" where the OP has insisted Christians will spend eternity is truly not a Christian's eternal home. Instead, as i rightly stated, when a Christian dies, initially, they go to be with the Lord in "the third heaven." After that, they will return to this earth with Jesus at his second coming in order to reign and rule with him during his Millennial Reign. Hear the song of the redeemed.

Rev 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

After Christ's Millennial Reign, the new heaven and new earth shall appear (Rev. 21:1), and, hopefully, you now understand what this new heaven and new earth will be. Again, it will only be "new" in the sense that it will have experienced atmospheric and geological changes as the direct result of FIRE. Of course, the new Jerusalem will also descend from heaven to this earth at that time (Rev. 21:2), but this does not change the fact that the coming "new heaven" and "the third heaven" are not the same place.

Anyhow, when the OP insisted that "heaven," as in "the third heaven," will be the place where Christians spend eternity, he was greatly mistaken, and it was not "contentious" of me to point out the truth concerning the matter. Instead, I was, and still am, merely contending for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Hopefully, you now recognize the same.
 
Feb 17, 2023
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#46
I just think neither of you should get angry over this. Just rejoice that when all this is over, we will be where God is whether either one of you is right about it or not.


👩‍🚀
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#47
It would not seem the least bit contentious to you or anybody else if you understood the major difference between the "heaven" that the OP was referring to and the "new heaven" that I mentioned.

The Bible indicates that there are three heavens.

Co 12:2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)
2Co 12:4
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

According to scripture, "the third heaven" is where "paradise" is currently located, and it is the place where God, Jesus, and the dead in Christ currently reside. If there is a "third heaven," and there is, then logic dictates that there must also be a first heaven and a second heaven. Here is the first heaven.

Gen 1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

According to scripture, that which we might rightly call "the first heaven" is where the fowl fly, or it is part of this earth's atmosphere. If there is a first heaven and a third heaven, and there is, then logic dictates that there must be a second heaven situated somewhere between the two of them. Here is the second heaven.

Gen 1:14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17
And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18
And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

According to scripture, that which we might rightly call "the second heaven" is where the sun, moon, and stars are, or what we might call "outer space."

In his erroneous claim, the OP was (and still is) insisting that "the third heaven" is where Christians will spend eternity, and this is not only patently false, but that "heaven" and the "new heaven" are not the same place. Consider what Peter said here.

2Pe 3:1
This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2Pe 3:2
That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe 3:3
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14
Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

In relation to scoffers in the last days who will walk after their own lusts or desires, Peter said that they will believe that "all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation" (vs. 4), but their beliefs will be unfounded. In other words, Peter said that they would be "willingly ignorant" (vs. 5) in relation to the heavens and earth of old, or in relation to the heavens and earth that we read about in the creation account in Genesis chapter 1. According to Peter, "the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" (vs. 6), or the original heavens and earth were greatly changed as a direct result of the great deluge in the days of Noah. In other words, there were both atmospheric and geological changes which took place at that time.

In fact, Peter went on to distinguish between the original heavens and earth and the heavens and earth in which you and I currently live when he said "but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men" (vs. 7). Notice "the heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW." Again, our current heavens and earth are not the original heavens and earth of Genesis chapter 1 because of the atmospheric and geological changes which occurred at the time of the great deluge in Noah's day. Not only this, but Peter said that the heavens and the earth, which are now, "are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men" (vs. 7). In other words, whereas the original heavens and earth of Genesis chapter 1 were greatly changed BY WATER as a direct result of the great deluge in Noah's day, the current heavens and earth will be greatly changed BY FIRE at some future time, and Peter went on to address it further when he said how Christians are "looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat" (vs. 12). He then added how "we," Christians, "according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness" (vs. 13). In other words, this new heavens and a new earth have absolutely nothing to do with what the Bible calls "the third heaven" (2 Cor. 12:2). Instead, they have everything to do with the heavens and the earth which have been (in Noah's day), and which will be (at a future time), affected atmospherically and geologically BY WATER (in Noah's day) and BY FIRE (at a future date).

I ran out of space, so I will have to conclude in my next post.
Actually, there was no need for what you have already posted, because no one disputes that there is the original creation and the new creation. I merely pointed out that to quibble about whether Christians go to heaven or to the new heaven seems to be splitting hairs in the mode of contentiousness, because nowhere in Scripture do Jesus and Paul encourage us to be saved to anyplace but heaven and from anyplace but hell.

To speculate about degrees of either is just that. My speculation is that the enjoyment of heaven may be enhanced by the suffering that was endured during earthly existence and that the suffering in hell will correspond to the suffering one caused during earthly existence along the lines of the "eye for eye" principle of just consequences.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
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#48
For example: if someone believes in the pre-trib rapture they will not believe they must prepare for events that are coming to the earth. God, in His mercy, might allow them to die early, so that they would not be subject to the sufferings to come. They will still be with the Lord but they will not endure, because of their beliefs, the tribulations suffered by the believers. Although this is to their shame toward man, God will still raise them to eternal life when the Lord returns.
 
Nov 14, 2024
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#49
nowhere in Scripture do Jesus and Paul encourage us to be saved to anyplace but heaven
"The third heaven" initially (with exceptions), but not ultimately.

You might want to reread your Bible, and this might be a good place to start.

Psa 37:11
But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Mat 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

It is a crying shame that so many people, like you, for example, call themselves Christians, and yet they do not even know what Christ's inheritance is or what their inheritance is as "joint-heirs with Christ" (Rom. 8:17).

I get my doctrine from the Bible, and not from the erroneous and unbiblical opinions of men.
 
Feb 22, 2021
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#50
For example: if someone believes in the pre-trib rapture they will not believe they must prepare for events that are coming to the earth.
Very Correct, we are preparing For The Judgment Seat Of Christ, To Be Held In Heaven, Wherewith
is our 'citizenship'...

Although this is to their shame toward man, God will still raise them to eternal life when the Lord returns.
The self-shame is for the ones "saved, yet so as by fire", who did not prepare by taking "...heed how
they (as co-laborers with God) built upon The Foundation Of Jesus Christ, suffering "loss of
rewards" for incorrect "building materials [ wood, hay, and stubble ]" (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV)

Amen.
 
Sep 2, 2020
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#51
Yep, I agree that only faith in the Gospel is necessary in order to satisfy God's requirement for salvation, the elaboration of which is called the kerygma to distinguish it from the myriad secondary details, which may be called the didache. (The essential Gospel is simple enough for a child of about eight years old to understand sufficiently to be saved :^)
Yeah to be honest brother . I don’t really know what any of those terms mean lol

but I could tell you things the lord said about our salvation when he preached the gospel. Before he died was buried and rose on the third day and ascended into heaven where he had come from after he had atoned for the worlds sin.

and yes I would agree that children often respond to Jesus better than adults do. Depending on what they have heard in thier household beforehand as they developed thier mind and convictions.

For instance a Muslim child of eight years has heard very different things about Jesus than a Christian households child of eight. Children are very open to influence from thier environment and especially thier parental figures who have continual influence on the children they are raising up early on , I mean until about ten or so probably in all cases but in a lot of cases that strong o fluency lasts a lifetime especially if it is good , nurturing , and loving . Rather than destructive and absent and a form of live but missing the actions ect children often develope great resentment from thier chiikdhood experiences against thier families for instance

but my point is children can be directed in either direction in thier mind and heart early on . A farmer or ranchers child for instance is raised possibly around animal harvest for food. But a city child who has small pets as children and pets growing up might join peta because of by bier beliefs and become an animal rights activist who spends tbier life warring against animal farming practices ect

my point is children are like blank clay they do have certain traits all thoer own but also parents shape thier children to an extent knowingly or unknowingly . Each person is very different . So the name Jesus , is going to be received differently early because of a lot of factors. This of course doesn’t limit Gods ability but the timing might be later in the persons life when they really hear the gospel message of Jesus the Christ . the son of God who came to die for our sins because of Gods great love for us all though all have sinned , and of his glorious resurrection and victory over death !

there’s even examples of the gospel preached to people who had died beforehand. So they heard it after Jesus died and went into that next realm of the spirit.

and so that message that he is Gods only begotten and chosen Son and hier and that he willingly died because of his great love towards mankind as a whole is something everyone will eventually have to hear it seems like

Children are different for instance

muslims say “Jesus was a good man and prophet but he wasn’t Gods son , he didn’t atone for the worlds sin , and he didn’t rise from the dead , he’s going to return later for a short time and get married then die before Muhammad comes ect ect “ they say things along those lines to thier children and so the child’s mind is Ill prepared to receive the gospel …..yet . but of course with God all things are possible

Wheras it seems to me just my guess . a Christian child is likely taught more of what the Bible teaches about Jesus and might be taught to pray in his name , believe in his name in his life death and resurrection , his commission and ascention and glorification on the throne of heaven ect ect……as tbier thinking is being developed.

So for then it’s simple with an atheist households chikd or Muslim or even what’s written religion or non religion they came from it seems it’s about individuals with Jesus and every man must appear before him to be judged if we believe the Bible the good the bad and the ugly.
 
Jan 16, 2025
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#52
If someone has a misunderstanding or is incorrect about verses like a prophecy or end times, will it cause one to be lost? I sure hope not, because there are so many verses in the Bible that I’m not sure what they mean. And there are a lot of disagreements with certain verses.
I often think of that scripture.. If anyone thinks he knows anything, let him admit he knows nothing yet as he should know.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#53
"The third heaven" initially (with exceptions), but not ultimately.

You might want to reread your Bible, and this might be a good place to start.

Psa 37:11
But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Mat 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

It is a crying shame that so many people, like you, for example, call themselves Christians, and yet they do not even know what Christ's inheritance is or what their inheritance is as "joint-heirs with Christ" (Rom. 8:17).

I get my doctrine from the Bible, and not from the erroneous and unbiblical opinions of men.
So the meek don't get to go to heaven? No wonder you are so pejorative!

(BTW, I start with the MT 5:10, "Blessed are those who are persecuted [by keepingthingsreal] because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven :^)
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#54
Yeah to be honest brother . I don’t really know what any of those terms mean lol

but I could tell you things the lord said about our salvation when he preached the gospel. Before he died was buried and rose on the third day and ascended into heaven where he had come from after he had atoned for the worlds sin.

and yes I would agree that children often respond to Jesus better than adults do. Depending on what they have heard in thier household beforehand as they developed thier mind and convictions.

For instance a Muslim child of eight years has heard very different things about Jesus than a Christian households child of eight. Children are very open to influence from thier environment and especially thier parental figures who have continual influence on the children they are raising up early on , I mean until about ten or so probably in all cases but in a lot of cases that strong o fluency lasts a lifetime especially if it is good , nurturing , and loving . Rather than destructive and absent and a form of live but missing the actions ect children often develope great resentment from thier chiikdhood experiences against thier families for instance

but my point is children can be directed in either direction in thier mind and heart early on . A farmer or ranchers child for instance is raised possibly around animal harvest for food. But a city child who has small pets as children and pets growing up might join peta because of by bier beliefs and become an animal rights activist who spends tbier life warring against animal farming practices ect

my point is children are like blank clay they do have certain traits all thoer own but also parents shape thier children to an extent knowingly or unknowingly . Each person is very different . So the name Jesus , is going to be received differently early because of a lot of factors. This of course doesn’t limit Gods ability but the timing might be later in the persons life when they really hear the gospel message of Jesus the Christ . the son of God who came to die for our sins because of Gods great love for us all though all have sinned , and of his glorious resurrection and victory over death !

there’s even examples of the gospel preached to people who had died beforehand. So they heard it after Jesus died and went into that next realm of the spirit.

and so that message that he is Gods only begotten and chosen Son and hier and that he willingly died because of his great love towards mankind as a whole is something everyone will eventually have to hear it seems like

Children are different for instance

muslims say “Jesus was a good man and prophet but he wasn’t Gods son , he didn’t atone for the worlds sin , and he didn’t rise from the dead , he’s going to return later for a short time and get married then die before Muhammad comes ect ect “ they say things along those lines to their children and so the child’s mind is Ill prepared to receive the gospel …..yet . but of course with God all things are possible

Wheras it seems to me just my guess . a Christian child is likely taught more of what the Bible teaches about Jesus and might be taught to pray in his name , believe in his name in his life death and resurrection , his commission and ascention and glorification on the throne of heaven ect ect……as tbier thinking is being developed.

So for then it’s simple with an atheist households child or Muslim or even what’s written religion or non religion they came from it seems it’s about individuals with Jesus and every man must appear before him to be judged if we believe the Bible the good the bad and the ugly.
Oh yes you do know that the essential Gospel is simple enough for a child of about eight years old to understand sufficiently to be saved. A child knows that faith means belief, Gospel means good news, God's requirement is like a parent's rule, salvation means being happy instead of getting punished, kerygma means--okay a child would not know Greek (ditto re didache :^)
 
Nov 14, 2024
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#55
So the meek don't get to go to heaven? No wonder you are so pejorative!

(BTW, I start with the MT 5:10, "Blessed are those who are persecuted [by keepingthingsreal] because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven :^)
The meek initially go to heaven when they die, and then they return to earth with Jesus at his second coming.

By defending biblical truth I am persecuting you or the other crybaby?

Seriously, grow up.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#57
The meek initially go to heaven when they die, and then they return to earth with Jesus at his second coming.

By defending biblical truth I am persecuting you or the other crybaby?

Seriously, grow up.
Seriously, employing ad hominem attacks is a pejorative technique utilized by persecutors when they have no good logical or biblical argument to make.

So I guess I will have to go to heaven and then back to earth while you take a short cut to the third or highest heaven?
(I will try not to be envious :^)
 
Nov 14, 2024
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#58
Seriously, employing ad hominem attacks is a pejorative technique utilized by persecutors when they have no good logical or biblical argument to make.

So I guess I will have to go to heaven and then back to earth while you take a short cut to the third or highest heaven?
(I will try not to be envious :^)
I have presented good, logical, and biblical arguments here.

Anyhow, you are going on ignore.

I am here to discuss the Bible with adults, and not to waste time with children.

Bye.
 
Jan 11, 2025
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#59
Seriously, employing ad hominem attacks is a pejorative technique utilized by persecutors when they have no good logical or biblical argument to make.

So I guess I will have to go to heaven and then back to earth while you take a short cut to the third or highest heaven?
(I will try not to be envious :^)
There’s a reason why I put the individual you are talking to on ignore. I knew right off the bat the type of individual he is at his first response to me. I suggest you do the same for your own peace.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#60
There’s a reason why I put the individual you are talking to on ignore. I knew right off the bat the type of individual he is at his first response to me. I suggest you do the same for your own peace.
I don't know how to put someone on ignore, but I guess it isn't necessary at least in this case (so no need for this old dog to learn a new trick :^)