Testing gift of prophecy on christianchat.

[sawdust]

You apparently didn't read the rest of my sentence:




I don't understand why what I wrote hit a nerve in you that you couldn't even finish reading that sentence.


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I read it mate but it makes no sense because you still want the gifts knowledge and prophecy to operate. They were designed to inform us about God and His plans not where you should buy your next house or for what job you should apply. First understand what the gifts were and their purpose.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

The gift of knowledge was never about our personal or corporate understanding. It is given to teach the things of God that were not covered in the OT especially regarding the Church.

How can those possibly be held up against scripture that hasn't already been written? What is prophetic or interpreted from tongues or knowledge will always line up with scripture.

I read it mate but it makes no sense because you still want the gifts knowledge and prophecy to operate. They were designed to inform us about God and His plans not where you should buy your next house or for what job you should apply. First understand what the gifts were and their purpose.

You've convinced me pretty much that you're scared of these gifts simply because you're getting so defensive.

So I'll just leave it here. I don't want to fight with you. You can keep denying these gifts for yourself. It's not going to stop the Holy Spirit from giving them to other people willing to receive them.


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[Blain]

You bet they do. But those gifts preach and teach the mind of Christ. No need to use "signs and wonders"to prove His word .

sorry I missed this post. Signs and wonders are indeed for proving but proving to unbelief you never know when an unbeliever is in the mix
my issue isn't that the gifts teach the mind of Christ it is when people say they have ceased that is when I have issue they do indeed speak and teach the will of God and the mind of Christ but for three of them knowledge wisdom and prophecy you need all three to create the holy trinity of the mind of Christ so to speak

these threee are needed because even in the church we have unbelief I was astounded by some of the unbelief I saw in many churches I went to. I had one person tell me they doubted Christ rose from the dead because they have studied the word for years and no act of God ever happened so he stopped believing.

So I recieved a word to tell him and said here is your act of God your cat is going to bring you a dead baby racoon. you bet he laughed and thought I was crazy well three days later I went to wendsday church and he saw me came running and said I believe now you were right my cat brought a dead baby racvoon to my foot and so if prophecy was gone like some say how did I firstly know he had a cat and second know he was going to be brought a dead baby racooon?

 

[Blain]

And because I don't want you to be ignorant, as you have no idea what I have faced in my life, please read the following passage.

Luke 10:17-20
17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

I know with absolute certainty my name is written in heaven.

James 4:7
Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.


Thanks be to God the Father through Jesus Christ the Lord!

yes your name is written in heaven did you know there is a library in heaven? I got to see this library once it has all the names and stories of every person who has existed exists now and will exist every detail including every sin except those who have been forgiven their sins are wiped from their books including every future sin

 

[sawdust]

Did you know his eyes are blue? did you know that his laughter is a hearty one? did you know he did not wear a white robe?

How will any of that serve to mature you in the knowledge of the word? Will knowing His eyes are blue help you when the devil comes a knocking trying to tempt you? Did Jesus reply, in his own temptation, "I don't wear a white robe" get away from me Satan?

Please don't insult my intelligence.

 

[sawdust]

that is completely wrong my friend the gofts of knowledge is nowhere mentioned to be that you cannot just add meaning or take away meaning knowledge is for the use of knowing him wisdom is to know how to use that knowledge where in the word is it written that it was for what the ot lacked? where do you get that from the gift of knowledge?

Huh? I say the gift of knowledge was to know who God is, you say it was for the use of knowing Him but you're right and I'm wrong?

I think you're just moving into knee jerk reactions now. I have seen the risen Christ too but it was not the visual but the scripture that came with the visual that informed me as to Who I was seeing.

 

[Blain]

How will any of that serve to mature you in the knowledge of the word? Will knowing His eyes are blue help you when the devil comes a knocking trying to tempt you? Did Jesus reply, in his own temptation, "I don't wear a white robe" get away from me Satan?

Please don't insult my intelligence.

you asked so I answered I am not insulting your intellegancebut there are things about him you won't find in the word only by knowing him

 

[Blain]

Huh? I say the gift of knowledge was to know who God is, you say it was for the use of knowing Him but you're right and I'm wrong?

I think you're just moving into knee jerk reactions now. I have seen the risen Christ too but it was not the visual but the scripture that came with the visual that informed me as to Who I was seeing.

You read about him yet when I describe him I am insulting your intellegence and you are the one who says the gift of knowledge has ceased are you not? well if they ceased and for only knowing him then we would know him completely wouldn't we?
you say the gifts are for knowing him but they are the manifestation of the spirit that is in scripture what you say they are for is not

 

[Blain]

You read about him yet when I describe him I am insulting your intellegence and you are the one who says the gift of knowledge has ceased are you not? well if they ceased and for only knowing him then we would know him completely wouldn't we?
you say the gifts are for knowing him but they are the manifestation of the spirit that is in scripture what you say they are for is not

sorry I meant to say you say the gift of knowledge is for knowing him

 

[Kroogz]

sorry I missed this post. Signs and wonders are indeed for proving but proving to unbelief you never know when an unbeliever is in the mix
my issue isn't that the gifts teach the mind of Christ it is when people say they have ceased that is when I have issue they do indeed speak and teach the will of God and the mind of Christ but for three of them knowledge wisdom and prophecy you need all three to create the holy trinity of the mind of Christ so to speak

these threee are needed because even in the church we have unbelief I was astounded by some of the unbelief I saw in many churches I went to. I had one person tell me they doubted Christ rose from the dead because they have studied the word for years and no act of God ever happened so he stopped believing.

So I recieved a word to tell him and said here is your act of God your cat is going to bring you a dead baby racoon. you bet he laughed and thought I was crazy well three days later I went to wendsday church and he saw me came running and said I believe now you were right my cat brought a dead baby racvoon to my foot and so if prophecy was gone like some say how did I firstly know he had a cat and second know he was going to be brought a dead baby racooon?

It really comes down to His Word. Would we want signs and wonders to be our "proof" of Christ or His written word? His word trumps everything else.........Meaning His word is sufficient.

 

[Blain]

It really comes down to His Word. Would we want signs and wonders to be our "proof" of Christ or His written word? His word trumps everything else.........Meaning His word is sufficient.

apparently not for some

 

[sawdust]

you asked so I answered I am not insulting your intellegancebut there are things about him you won't find in the word only by knowing him

You are equating your experience as being just as authoritative as the written word. I find that insulting sir.

I can tell you the colour of Mel Gibson's eyes but I don't know the man.

You read about him yet when I describe him I am insulting your intellegence and you are the one who says the gift of knowledge has ceased are you not? well if they ceased and for only knowing him then we would know him completely wouldn't we?
you say the gifts are for knowing him but they are the manifestation of the spirit that is in scripture what you say they are for is not

Knowing things about people is not knowing them. You should know that. You're not even making sense in the last two sentences. I don't just "read" about Him, the Spirit lives in me. The Christian faith is dynamic not simply a "good read". We learn to walk by faith in the word of God or we end up relying on our own understanding. Your "dreams and visions" are not on the same level of authority as the written word, stop treating them as if they are or you may well find yourself in a world of hurt and I do not want that for anyone.

 

[sawdust]

apparently not for some

Huh? You're the one saying His word is not sufficient. You seem to think there is more to know outside the word that is essential to knowing the mind of Christ or His plans for this world.

 

[Snackersmom]

Huh? You're the one saying His word is not sufficient. You seem to think there is more to know outside the word that is essential to knowing the mind of Christ or His plans for this world.

Hi Sawdust! Can I first say that I 100% believe (based on numerous other posts of yours) that you are my sister in Christ and we will meet in Heaven someday?

That said, I think you are misunderstanding what the gifts (especially prophecy) are actually used for, and just how practical and effective they can be in ministry.

- Prophecy was used to discern who had been called to specific roles in the church (1Timorhy 4:14)

- Prophecy was used to comfort and edify the church (1 Cor. 14:3)

- Prophecy could be evangelistic, as in 1 Cor 14: 24-25:

But if all prophesy and an unbeliever comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all. And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face he will worship God and report that God is truly among you"

There is a common misconception that "Prophecy" only pertains to foretelling future events. That is incorrect. If you look into the examples above, I think you will agree that all those situations are still relevant to the church and its current calling. Do we "Need" the gift of prophecy in order to fill church positions, comfort and edify, and spread the Gospel? Technically, no..... all we "need" for that is the Bible. But the gift does make the job 1,000 X cooler, funner, and easier!

 

[lrs68]

Where is it located at within the 4 Gospels, specifically Jesus' own words, that the existing Church built from the establishment in the Book of Acts would stop being like the original Church?

My Bible states that God doesn't change and will be the same as He was all throughout the entire Bible. You people act like we should not be like the first Church we read about in the Book of Acts. Where does it say we're supposed to change?

 

[lrs68]

Jesus said to preach the Gospel and make Disciples and Baptize them. That's what the Church in the Book of Acts did and we're supposed to do. There's nothing that says we're supposed to change from the original Church. What they did we're supposed to also be doing.

 

[Blain]

Huh? You're the one saying His word is not sufficient. You seem to think there is more to know outside the word that is essential to knowing the mind of Christ or His plans for this world.

Firstly I was refering to the man I spoke about it my example second yes there is more than just his written word he is not just some distant God we can only know by reading his word he is a personal one too a real life person who can even show up in your room.
Do you really just stop at the written word and not get to know him and experience him personally? If I told you he will fill your room up with his presence would you believe me? Or to get to know the fear of the Lord first hand for instance to the point your body is trembling and you dare not look up at him because his presence is so mighty and awesome?

Oh but let me guess that isn't in scripture right? So therefore it cannot be true but you seem to forget he is a real person not just someone you read about. I study the word and I experience the word

 

[Blain]

You are equating your experience as being just as authoritative as the written word. I find that insulting sir.

I can tell you the colour of Mel Gibson's eyes but I don't know the man.



Knowing things about people is not knowing them. You should know that. You're not even making sense in the last two sentences. I don't just "read" about Him, the Spirit lives in me. The Christian faith is dynamic not simply a "good read". We learn to walk by faith in the word of God or we end up relying on our own understanding. Your "dreams and visions" are not on the same level of authority as the written word, stop treating them as if they are or you may well find yourself in a world of hurt and I do not want that for anyone.

How I experience him may not be how you do but I still hold his word in very high regard and do not equate my visions to it you just assume that, if you would listen to me you know I am saying that yes his word is the ultimate authority but that isn't all there is to it you keep making these assumptions about me but you know nothing about me people on here who do know me know that I hold his word in very high regard however I also am open about what he has shown or revealed to me in my time of studies or worship

I am done arguing here you clearly have your opinion of me and that isn't ins't going to change so be it so with that I am shaking the dust off my feet

 

[Blain]

Also for the cause of the thread title to test prophecy I was in worship with God last night and I asked him to speak to me something anything I just wanted to hear from him and I heard the end will come when the blood moon rises
in the last days the sun will turn black as sackloth and the moon to blood so before anyone starts hounding me on this it is in scripture

"I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord"

 

[sawdust]

Sorry, I missed responding to this post somehow.

How can those possibly be held up against scripture that hasn't already been written? What is prophetic or interpreted from tongues or knowledge will always line up with scripture.

I think you and several others have misunderstood what I said here. It was in response to you claiming we have the gift of knowledge today because of all the misunderstandings that face to face with Christ will be put away. The gift of knowledge is just that, knowledge, it is not designed to make you understand, that would be the gift of wisdom. Peter might make it clearer when he says:

2 Peter 3:16
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

The gift of knowledge was not given to make you understand but to inform you of the nature/character and purposes of God. If one does not understand it could be a number of reasons but one's lack of understanding has no impact on the use of the gift so it is not needed simply because people don't understand. You would need the gift of wisdom for understanding. I have seen that gift operate in myself and others at times. It is having an understanding you know cannot possibly have come from one's own capacity either in respect to knowledge or experience. It certainly isn't my gift and whether it is still a gift given today to individuals, I cannot say, however it was most needed in the times I have seen it work.

You've convinced me pretty much that you're scared of these gifts simply because you're getting so defensive.

You should not be so easily convinced.

There is no new knowledge one can impart that cannot be found in scripture nor is there any prophecy that reveals any new will or workings of God that cannot be found in scripture. Ergo, why is God wasting His time giving that which is not needed? The Lord God is the epitome of good management.

I have to go but let me say I don't want to fight either. If I have sounded a little harsh with you, I apologise. I can assure you, I value your input.