what I learned about oneness pentecostalism

lrs68 · Monday at 3:45 PM

^

Look at the timeframe of the list of names you supplied. Most are around the 4th century and beyond which matches the RCC CATECHISM.

Most Theologians are convinced that the Didache is a Catholic knock off and the true Apostles would have no idea about the contents in it.

Read the last portion titled INTO CHRIST

TheLearner · Monday at 3:45 PM

Quotations from the Old Testament
It is claimed that most of the quotations from the Old Testament are borrowed from the Septuagint, and that this fact proves that the Gospel of Matthew was composed in Greek. The first proposition is not accurate, and, even if it were, it would not necessitate this conclusion. Let us examine the facts. As established by Stanton ("The Gospels as Historical Documents", II, Cambridge, 1909, p. 342), the quotations from the Old Testament in the First Gospel are divided into two classes. In the first are ranged all those quotations the object of which is to show that the prophecies have been realized in the events of the life of Jesus. They are introduced by the words: "Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which the Lord spoke by the prophet," or other similar expressions. The quotations of this class do not in general correspond exactly with any particular text. Three among them (ii, 15; viii, 17; xxvii, 9, 10) are borrowed from the Hebrew; five (ii, 18; iv, 15, 16; xii, 18-21; xiii, 35; xxi, 4, 5) bear points of resemblance to the Septuagint, but were not borrowed from that version. In the answer of the chief priests and scribes to Herod (ii, 6), the text of the Old Testament is slightly modified, without, however, conforming either to the Hebrew or the Septuagint. The Prophet Micheas writes (5:2): "And thou Bethlehem, Ephrata, art a little one among the thousands of Juda"; whereas Matthew says (ii, 6): "And thou Bethlehem the land of Juda art not the least among the princes of Juda". A single quotation of this first class (iii, 3) conforms to the Septuagint, and another (i, 23) is almost conformable. These quotations are to be referred to the first Evangelist himself, and relate to facts, principally to the birth of Jesus (i, ii), then to the mission of John the Baptist, the preaching of the Gospel by Jesus in Galilee, the miracles of Jesus, etc. It is surprising that the narratives of the Passion and the Resurrection of Our Lord, the fulfilment of the very clear and numerous prophecies of the Old Testament, should never be brought into relation with these prophecies. Many critics, e.g. Burkitt and Stanton, think that the quotations of the first class are borrowed from a collection of Messianic passages, Stanton being of opinion that they were accompanied by the event that constituted their realization. This "catena of fulfilments of prophecy", as he calls it, existed originally in Aramaic, but whether the author of the First Gospel had a Greek translation of it is uncertain. The second class of quotations from the Old Testament is chiefly composed of those repeated either by the Lord or by His interrogators. Except in two passages, they are introduced by one of the formula: "It is written"; "As it is written"; "Have you not read?" "Moses said". Where Matthew alone quotes the Lord's words, the quotation is sometimes borrowed from the Septuagint (v, 21 a, 27, 38), or, again, it is a free translation which we are unable to refer to any definite text (v, 21 b, 23, 43). In those Passages where Matthew runs parallel with Mark and Luke or with either of them, all the quotations save one (xi, 10) are taken almost literally from the Septuagint.
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10057a.htm

TheLearner · Monday at 3:49 PM

lrs68 said:

You are making up that nonsense about the Didache. We both posted quotes that the early church fathers were disciple and taught by the apostles. I am a certified Historian and Theologian. Joseph Fitzmyer is worth reading.

lrs68 · Monday at 3:57 PM

According to historical records, Saint Jerome, a prominent early Christian scholar, claimed to have seen and read a Hebrew version of the Gospel of Matthew, stating that he had access to a copy used by Jewish Christian communities, often referred to as the "Gospel of the Hebrews" or "Gospel According to the Hebrews" which he believed was the original Hebrew text written by Matthew himself.

lrs68 · Monday at 3:59 PM

TheLearner said:

Yes, many theologians believe that the Didache was not written by the apostles.

AI Overview
Yes, most theologians believe that the Didache was not written by the apostles. The Didache is a Christian manual that is anonymous and was not written by the apostles.

TheLearner · Monday at 4:01 PM

In Jewish thought, I should know since I studied in Temple that "in the name of" refers to authority. I already posted a link to that effect. Luke also, used a well know shorthand in Acts 2:38.

7 Now about baptism: this is how to baptize. Give public instruction on all these points, and then "baptize" in running water, "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."498 2If you do not have running water, baptize in some other. 3If you cannot in cold, then in warm. If you have neither, then pour water on the head three times "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."499 4Before the baptism, moreover, the one who baptizes and the one being baptized must fast, and any others who can. And you must tell the one being baptized to fast for one or two days beforehand.

5You must not let anyone eat or drink of your Eucharist except those baptized in the Lord's name.

Acts 2:38
Peter said to them, “Change your hearts and lives and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ.

Acts 8:12
But Philip told the people the Good News about God’s kingdom and the power of Jesus Christ. Men and women believed Philip and were baptized.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 8:13
Simon himself also believed, and after he was baptized, he stayed close to Philip. When he saw the miraculous signs and powerful things Philip did, he was amazed.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 8:16
These people had been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, but the Holy Spirit had not yet come down on any of them. This is why Peter and John prayed.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 8:36
While they were traveling down the road, they came to some water. The official said, “Look, here is water! What is stopping me from being baptized?”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 8:38
Then the official ordered the chariot to stop. Both Philip and the official went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 9:18
Immediately, something that looked like fish scales fell off Saul’s eyes. He was able to see! Then he got up and was baptized.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 10:37
“You know what has happened all over Judea. It began in Galilee after John told the people they needed to be baptized.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 10:47
“How can anyone object to these people being baptized in water? They have received the Holy Spirit the same as we did!”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 10:48
So Peter told them to baptize Cornelius and his relatives and friends in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 11:16
Then I remembered the words of the Lord Jesus: ‘John baptized people in water, but you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit.’
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 13:24
Before he came, John told all the people of Israel what they should do. He told them to be baptized to show they wanted to change their lives.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 16:15
She and all the people living in her house were baptized. Then she invited us into her home. She said, “If you think I am a true believer in the Lord Jesus, come stay in my house.” She persuaded us to stay with her.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 16:33
It was late at night, but the jailer took Paul and Silas and washed their wounds. Then the jailer and all his people were baptized.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 18:8
Crispus was the leader of that synagogue. He and all the people living in his house believed in the Lord Jesus. Many other people in Corinth also listened to Paul. They, too, believed and were baptized.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 18:25
He had been taught about the Lord and was always excited to talk to people about Jesus. What he taught was right, but the only baptism he knew about was the baptism that John taught.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 19:3
Paul asked them, “So what kind of baptism did you have?” They said, “It was the baptism that John taught.”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 19:4
Paul said, “John told people to be baptized to show they wanted to change their lives. He told people to believe in the one who would come after him, and that one is Jesus.”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 19:5
When these followers heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 22:16
Now, don’t wait any longer. Get up, be baptized and wash away your sins, trusting in Jesus to save you.’

Baptized in the name of ??? is just shorthand by Luke for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit

TheLearner · Monday at 4:08 PM

lrs68 said:

"Gospel of the Hebrews" or "Gospel According to the Hebrews" are well known pseudepigraphal text.

"Gospel of the Hebrews" or "Gospel According to the Hebrews" is considered a well-known pseudepigraphal text, meaning it is a religious text falsely attributed to an earlier author, in this case, believed to be written by early Jewish Christians and not actually by the Hebrews themselves

Some scholars believe that the Gospel of the Hebrews was originally written in Greek, although Jerome indicates that he had translated it from Hebrew (On Famous Men, 2–3). Jerome called it “the Gospel according to the Hebrews, which is written in the Chaldee and Syrian language, but in Hebrew characters, and is used by the Nazarenes to this day” (Against the Pelagians III:2). According to the historian Eusebius, the early church father Papias claimed that Matthew had originally recorded Jesus’ words in the Hebrew language (History, III:39.16). There is still much uncertainty concerning the origin and content of the Gospel of the Hebrews, in light of the current lack of manuscripts.

The Gospel of the Hebrews, as the name suggests, seems to have been oriented toward Jewish Christians. Some of the quotes are similar to Jewish wisdom literature. Jerome relates that, in the Gospel of the Hebrews’ resurrection account, the Lord’s brother James is prominent (On Famous Men, 2); this fact suggests a Jewish-Christian influence in the book. Despite the handful of allusions to it in early church writings, the Gospel of the Hebrews was never considered canonical. Origen cast doubt on the veracity of the book in that he preceded a quotation from it with the words “If any one should lend credence to the Gospel according to the Hebrews” (Commentary on the Gospel of John, II:6).

Two other works generally come up in any discussion about the Gospel of the Hebrews: the Gospel of the Ebionites and the Gospel of the Nazarenes. The Gospel of the Ebionites was a religious text used by the heretical Ebionites; it was perhaps a modified version of the Gospel of the Hebrews or an adaptation of the Gospel of Matthew. The Gospel of the Nazarenes was another early Hebrew or Aramaic text, though it may be another name for the Gospel of the Hebrews. The relationship of these three works to each other is a subject of debate among scholars and is unlikely to be resolved anytime soon.

The early church ultimately rejected the Gospel of the Hebrews. Christians can be confident that, under the sovereign guidance of the Holy Spirit, the early church made the right decision. There are no “lost books” of the Bible, and all the books that are in the Bible are the books God intended to be in the Bible. The four gospels we possess accurately recount the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, who achieved victory over death and paid the price for our sin so that we might live forever with Him.
https://www.gotquestions.org/gospel-of-the-Hebrews.html

TheLearner · Monday at 4:11 PM

Jerome, who is our chief source of knowledge about this Gospel, says that he had made a Greek and a Latin version of it. The statement is wholly rejected by some, and by others thought to be an exaggeration. It is very difficult to accept it as it stands. Perhaps, as Lagrange suggests, the truth may be that Jerome took notes of the text in Greek and Latin. Schmidtke, it should be added, has tried to show that all Jerome's quotations are borrowed from an earlier writer, Apollonaris; but there is no positive evidence for this.

If the Oxyrhynchus Sayings do come from Hebrews, they seem to imply the existence of a Greek version before Jerome's time. This is also implied by the entry in the Stichometry.

I will translate the fragments as they appear in the most recent study on the subject, that of the Rev. Pere Lagrange in the Revue Biblique, 1922.

He begins by giving the fragments quoted by Epiphanius from what is properly called the Gospel of the Ebionites. Then he gives those of our Gospel, arranging them in the chronological order of the writers and the works in which they are found. This entails some little repetition, but is otherwise historically interesting, and sound.

Irenaeus Against Heresies, i.26.2. But the Ebionites use only that Gospel which is according to Matthew, and repudiate the Apostle Paul, calling him an apostate from the Law.

iii.11.7. For the Ebionites, who use only that Gospel which is according to Matthew, are convicted out of that very book as not holding right views about the Lord.
https://www.holypig.com/cotor/Bible/Bible/A&P/NTA&P/Gospels/The Gospel of the Hebrews.htm

Lynx · Monday at 4:14 PM

TheLearner said:

I am a UPCI minor minister, and that is not at all what we believe or teach. At least not in my church.

I don't know what church you went to, but it sounds pretty weird.

TheLearner · Monday at 4:14 PM

Antilegomena of the New Testament:
Apocalpyse of John, Apocalpyse of Peter, Epistle of Barnabas, and
Gospel accrding to the Hebrews, 2,200 lines (300 lines less than the canonical Matthew).

Jerome. He is our principal authority in this matter.

https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/gospelhebrews-mrjames.html

lrs68 · Monday at 4:14 PM

^
Difference is that Jerome read it and verified it and claimed it to be the same. Considering the Bible you use has come from Jerome via the later 10th century copy that ultimately was basis for the KJV it's foolish for YOU to blast Jerome too much. If we prove him wrong, which we cannot and can only offer opinion, then we must question the Bible we use. So you are treading on extremely thin ice here.

TheLearner · Monday at 4:18 PM

Lynx said:

Please link to statement of faith for your church. thanks
Also links to those in your church is on a major Bible translation committee.
Links to your church'e Systematic Theology please.

Simple challenge: List what doctrines you believe, go to newadvent.org to find early church fathers really taught. After all they were taught by the Apostles.

TheLearner · Monday at 4:25 PM

lrs68 said:

18. Papias
Papias, the pupil of John, bishop of Hierapolis in Asia, wrote only five volumes, which he entitled Exposition of the words of our Lord, in which, when he had asserted in his preface that he did not follow various opinions but had the apostles for authority, he said I considered what Andrew and Peter said, what Philip, what Thomas, what James, what John, what Matthew or any one else among the disciples of our Lord, what also Aristion and the elder John, disciples of the Lord had said, not so much that I have their books to read, as that their living voice is heard until the present day in the authors themselves. It appears through this catalogue of names that the John who is placed among the disciples is not the same as the elder John whom he places after Aristion in his enumeration. This we say moreover because of the opinion mentioned above, where we record that it is declared by many that the last two epistles of John are the work not of the apostle but of the presbyter.

TheLearner · Monday at 4:27 PM

lrs68 said:

Jerome
“Seeing that a man, baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, becomes a temple of the Lord, and that while the old abode is destroyed a new shrine is built for the Trinity, how can you say that sins can be remitted among the Arians without the coming of the Holy Ghost? How is a soul purged from its former stains which has not the Holy Ghost?” (Dialogue Against the Luciferians 6 [A.D. 382]).

TheLearner · Monday at 4:34 PM

36. Pantænus
Pantaenus, a philosopher of the stoic school, according to some old Alexandrian custom, where, from the time of Mark the evangelist the ecclesiastics were always doctors, was of so great prudence and erudition both in scripture and secular literature that, on the request of the legates of that nation, he was sent to India by Demetrius bishop of Alexandria, where he found that Bartholomew, one of the twelve apostles, had preached the advent of the Lord Jesus according to the gospel of Matthew, and on his return to Alexandria he brought this with him written in Hebrew characters. Many of his commentaries on Holy Scripture are indeed extant, but his living voice was of still greater benefit to the churches. He taught in the reigns of the emperor Severus and Antoninus surnamed Caracalla.

Hebrew characters is transliteration, not original language.

Transliteration is the process of converting a word or text from one script to another while preserving its pronunciation. It's used to help people understand how words are pronounced in foreign languages.

https://www.google.com/inputtools/services/features/transliteration.html

https://medium.com/neuralspace/what...is-it-different-from-translation-16fff6c3e0cc

TheLearner · Monday at 4:36 PM

109. Didymus the Blind
Didymus, of Alexandria, becoming blind while very young, and therefore ignorant of the rudiments of learning, displayed such a miracle of intelligence as to learn perfectly dialectics and even geometry, sciences which especially require sight. He wrote many admirable works: Commentaries on all the Psalms, Commentaries on the Gospels of Matthew and John, On the doctrines, also two books Against the Arians, and one book On the Holy Spirit, which I translated in Latin, eighteen volumes On Isaiah, three books of commentaries On Hosea, addressed to me, and five books On Zechariah, written at my request, also commentaries On Job, and many other things, to give an account of which would be a work of itself. He is still living, and has already passed his eighty-third year.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/2708.htm

TheLearner · Monday at 4:54 PM

TheLearner · Monday at 5:09 PM

Jerome quotes passages from this Hebrew gospel in the following examples, in the ﬁrst of which, attributed to Jesus, he adds a comment:

“A moment ago my mother, the Holy Spirit, took me up.” No one should be scandalized by this, since in Hebrew spirit is in the feminine gender, while in our language [Latin] it is masculine and in Greek it is neuter. There is no gender in the godhead. (Commentary on Isaiah, on 40:9)

In the gospel according to the Hebrews…among the most grievous offences is this: “He who has grieved the spirit of his brother.” (Commentary on Ezekiel, on 18:7)

The Lord says to his disciples: “Do not rejoice except when you look on your brother with love.” (Commentary on Ephesians, on 5:4)

TheLearner · Monday at 5:16 PM

read the gospel of the Hebrews for yourself: https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/gospelhebrews-mrjames.html

Edify · Monday at 5:26 PM

I skipped from p4 to p8, didn't miss a thing.
Are you guys done arguing yet, or are you gonna go another 8 pages?
This helps nobody.
The only thing I've learned is CC goes thru these fighting cycles every few months.
Who wants to be bothered with you after all this? I don't.

what I learned about oneness pentecostalism

Active member

Attachments

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Folksy yet erudite

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member