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Ballaurena

Well-known member
May 27, 2024
498
344
63
#1
Psalms 31:18 NASB1995
[18] Let the lying lips be mute, Which speak arrogantly against the righteous With pride and contempt.

I am still bleeding over libelous lips that accused my character months ago. We need functioning shepherds on here, and accountability that people aren't allowed to make baseless accusations.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
28,200
9,956
113
#2
Psalms 31:18 NASB1995
[18] Let the lying lips be mute, Which speak arrogantly against the righteous With pride and contempt.

I am still bleeding over libelous lips that accused my character months ago. We need functioning shepherds on here, and accountability that people aren't allowed to make baseless accusations.
The only moderator is an unpaid volunteer.

Also, if you have ever been a moderator on an internet forum or chat room, you will know that you can't just kick people out for any comment that rubs somebody the wrong way. It has to be something clearly against the forum or chat room rules.

Besides, what can anybody here do to you? We are just random people who happen to have internet access. We don't even know where you live, much less have access to the people in your world and the ability to affect what your real life friends, family and coworkers think about you.

I mean, if somebody here called me a blaspheming heretic, it wouldn't really matter much. Random people on an internet forum don't really have a lot of influence in my personal life. They don't know my boss, my father or my pastor. What can any of you do to me?

Trust me, everything said here matters a lot less than you think it does. Just let it go.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
28,200
9,956
113
#3
Psalms 31:18 NASB1995
[18] Let the lying lips be mute, Which speak arrogantly against the righteous With pride and contempt.

I am still bleeding over libelous lips that accused my character months ago. We need functioning shepherds on here, and accountability that people aren't allowed to make baseless accusations.
This does remind me of one time when somebody was complaining about people saying mean things to her. "Fine, we'll just talk about you behind your back."
 
Nov 14, 2024
1,360
925
113
#4
Psalms 31:18 NASB1995
[18] Let the lying lips be mute, Which speak arrogantly against the righteous With pride and contempt.

I am still bleeding over libelous lips that accused my character months ago. We need functioning shepherds on here, and accountability that people aren't allowed to make baseless accusations.
Hi, Ballaurena.

I am sorry that you had to experience what you described, but, truth be told, there is really no way to avoid baseless accusations as a Christian. Jesus said that no servant is above their master, and nobody in the history of mankind has had more baseless accusations leveled against them than Jesus himself. Jesus overcame such accusations in a very simple way, and I would like to share that with you now for your potential good.

1Pe 2:21
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23
Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

Christians have been called to suffer as Christ suffered. When Jesus was reviled, he did not revile in return. When he suffered, he did not threaten anybody. Instead, he committed himself to his heavenly Father who judges righteously, and his Father's assessment of him was always "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased."

Nobody likes being lied about. I know that I do not like it, and people have been telling lies about me for many, many years. It really used to bother me a lot until I came upon the portion of scripture that I just shared with you. Now, when people speak evil of me, I simply look up towards heaven, and I get my heavenly Father's assessment of both me and the situation. If there is some truth to what others are saying about me, then I repent accordingly and apologize to the offended party. If, however there is no truth to what others are saying about me, then I just go with my Father's assessment of me without giving anybody else godlike status in my life.

To stop being hurt by slander, I also needed to start seeing it in a different light. Please consider these verses.

Mat 5:11
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Jesus said that when people revile us, and persecute us, and speak all manner of evil against us falsely, we should rejoice and be exceedingly glad because great is our reward in heaven. Why? Because the prophets who were before us were persecuted in the same manner, and so was Christ himself.

1Pe 4:12
Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1Pe 4:14
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pe 4:15
But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
1Pe 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

Along the same lines of what Jesus said, Peter said that we ought to rejoice when we are partakers of Christ's sufferings. He also said that we are happy or blessed when we are reproached for the name of Christ. Why? Because such things are evidence that the spirit of glory and God rests upon us. He concluded by saying that we should glorify God when these things happen.

Peter was not just blowing smoke, either.

Act 5:40
And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
Act 5:41
And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

After being beaten before a council, and after being commanded to not speak anymore in the name of Jesus, Peter rejoiced that he was counted worthy to suffer shame for Jesus' name. Ultimately, Peter glorified God by losing his life for Christ's and the gospel's sake.

If the things which I have described are even remotely similar to what you have experienced here in the past, then you should rejoice because you are in good company.

Anyhow, if you ever need somebody to talk to about these things, then I have a lot of experience getting rid of pain inside of myself through the provisions which God has made for us, and I would be happy to discuss some of those provisions with you for your own potential healing.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
4,162
3,238
113
#5
Psalms 31:18 NASB1995
[18] Let the lying lips be mute, Which speak arrogantly against the righteous With pride and contempt.

I am still bleeding over libelous lips that accused my character months ago. We need functioning shepherds on here, and accountability that people aren't allowed to make baseless accusations.
This kind of stuff has been happening for over a decade on this site. I don't see them changing that anytime soon. It's pretty much allowed.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
28,200
9,956
113
#6
Psalms 31:18 NASB1995
[18] Let the lying lips be mute, Which speak arrogantly against the righteous With pride and contempt.

I am still bleeding over libelous lips that accused my character months ago. We need functioning shepherds on here, and accountability that people aren't allowed to make baseless accusations.
I should point out that the one single volunteer moderator... Who is definitely not getting paid... Had to approve this thread before it would show up on the forum for the rest of us.

Rest assured, he is aware of your complaint.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,705
3,456
113
Frankston, Victoria
christianlife.au
#7
Psalms 31:18 NASB1995
[18] Let the lying lips be mute, Which speak arrogantly against the righteous With pride and contempt.

I am still bleeding over libelous lips that accused my character months ago. We need functioning shepherds on here, and accountability that people aren't allowed to make baseless accusations.
You need to forgive those who slandered you. That you still angry shows that you have not. God hears everything everyone says. Let Him take care of the situation.

I've been on a forum that was over moderated. It's pointless. I don't agree with open slather either. There is a balance and it's not easy to maintain it. Jesus was slandered, so why should we expect to be treated differently?
 

Ballaurena

Well-known member
May 27, 2024
498
344
63
#8
You need to forgive those who slandered you. That you still angry shows that you have not. God hears everything everyone says. Let Him take care of the situation.
I'm sure you mean well, friend, but you have some misconceptions there. First off, as God has done a lot of refining of my temper, if I'm still angry it means 1 of 2 things:

1) The issue hasn't been resolved and something needs to be done. Anger is an emotion that comes from our reflecting God. It isn't supposed to be dissipated without effect but rather it informs and energizes our hearts to fight for justice. Justice isn't just some hypothetical concept, but rather a real thing spiritually. Also, justice is core to my calling in particular, so looking to just get over it, if that were even possible, could be very bad.

Along those lines, there is absolutely no place for forgiving a truly unrepentant person. I think people often actually mean giving the issue to God, which sometimes has a place, or forgiving the person who really is repentant on a deep level, but actual forgiveness of a unrepentant person would be evil and destructive. Giving it to God means trusting Him to deal with the issue appropriately when the final outcome is seen, most critically the question of if they do repent. Otherwise the pressure on the spiritual reality might be so strong as to actually destroy something by the injustice that would exist. Concepts such as justice, injustice and forgiveness might sound like untethered concepts, but there is actually a truth behind them which makes it critically important not to treat them lightly. As God matures us, though, we become capable of navigating these things ourselves, and then even if we try to give it to God, He just gives it back because it is our right and responsibility to deal with. Therefore there is really no place for blanket directions to just forgive anyone who has hurt you.

2) Satan is messing with me. This isn't something a person can just choose to get over by choice, but rather the evil spirit has to be dealt with. And yes, I do know how to deal with this if a problem, though it sometimes takes a bit to discern if the source of the unrelenting mental discomfort is something I need to deal with or something I need to rebuke, or even both. If there is an element of this going on though, God is perfectly capable of showing me as He has done many times before.

I've been on a forum that was over moderated. It's pointless. I don't agree with open slather either. There is a balance and it's not easy to maintain it. Jesus was slandered, so why should we expect to be treated differently?
Your experience is a useful note. I'm asking for God's answer to the problem, though. I refuse to assume there is no answer just because humans haven't come up with one. God and His people are a team. And if God picks the people, they will be the one's He has gifted and prepared for this very purpose, or at least ones He is teaching so the kingdom can benefit from their mistakes. It's a different way of going about things then how the world does things. Plus God has already defined a position to protect His church of 'shepherd.' By this I mean the biblically defined role, not the modern definition of 'shepherd' that has evolved/devolved over the millennia. I also don't mean the modern definition of 'church' which has no bearing on the Bible or anything I'm speaking of here. Rather God's church is His people themselves, and thus the church is here if in fact His people are here. Therefore I believe we need some kind of God's provision of shepherd, though I believe it will not happen unless enough people here are looking to God enough to see that it happens. In the words of G.K. Chesterton, “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.”

As for Jesus also having been slandered, it is a different thing to be slandered by the church and the world. How intimate could a knight's home life be if he wore his armor to bed? No, within the church (any relationship between followers of Christ) there must be a certain level of intimacy to get anywhere, and this requires a level of safety, which is also why God designed the body to have safeguards like shepherds and warriors. And I can tell you it's needed because the lack of safety is getting in the way of my calling. And I will remind you too, that even Jesus made a big deal of Judas betraying him with a kiss - the intimacy of the attack matters.

Verses of note:

"35 Jesus went through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom and healing every disease and sickness. 36 When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. 37 Then he said to his disciples, 'The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. 38 Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.' " Matthew 9:35-38

"To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2 Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away." 1 Peter 5:1-4

"28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them." Acts 20:28-30

"But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.” 1 Samuel 6:7

"15 'If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that "every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses." 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 18 'Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. 19 'Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.' ” Matthew 18:15-20

Verses on Repentance & Forgiveness:

“If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. 4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.” " Luke 17:3b-4

"19 Joshua said to the people,'You are not able to serve the Lord. He is a holy God; he is a jealous God. He will not forgive your rebellion and your sins. 20 If you forsake the Lord and serve foreign gods, he will turn and bring disaster on you and make an end of you, after he has been good to you.' ” Joshua 24:19-20 (Consider in light of 1 Peter 1:15-16 and Leviticus 19:2 - "Be holy because I, the Lord your God, am holy.")

"And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. " Mark 1:4 (Similar to Luke 3:3)

"so that, “‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’” Mark 4:12

"Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” Luke 23:34a (Not exactly a case of stubborn unrepentance.)

"and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." Luke 24:47

God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins. Acts 5:31

"Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart." Acts 8:22

"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9

And Luke 13:1-5, and many, many more, but hopefully you get the idea. Do realize that with verses like "Forgive, and you will be forgiven" (Luke 6:37), there is no reason to believe they are unqualified statements. In other words, the issue at hand is willingness to forgive, not necessarily a command to forgive no matter the circumstances, which would be counter to much scripture. Realize that qualifications and context can get clunky and in the way of making a new point, so they aren't repeated every time a statement is made. But for this verse of Luke 6:37, the very same book of Luke quotes Jesus elsewhere as saying, "if they repent, forgive them" (Luke 17:3), thus the qualification in this case is given elsewhere.
 
Nov 14, 2024
1,360
925
113
#9
Along those lines, there is absolutely no place for forgiving a truly unrepentant person.
Hi, Ballaurena.

Although I agree with you that genuine repentance needs to precede forgiveness, there is another variable here. As Christians, we ought to be dead to ourselves and alive unto God through Christ, and dead people do not get offended. If we are truly dead to ourselves and alive unto God through Christ, then when somebody sins against us, we are going to be greatly concerned about them potentially finding mercy, and not at all desirous for justice to be served. Here are a couple of scriptural examples of what I mean.

Act 7:59
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Stephen was totally in the right, and those who stoned him to death were totally in the wrong. However, Stephen's final words were "Lord, lay not this sin to their charge." In other words, he desired mercy, and not justice or judgment, for those who were literally killing him. Did God immediately answer this prayer in accordance to Stephen's wishes? I do not believe that he answered it immediately, but he did later stop Saul on the road to Damascus, and Saul ultimately repented of his sins before God, and Stephen's dying request was answered for one of those responsible for his death. Again, genuine repentance needed to precede Divine forgiveness, but that is truly what Stephen desired for his adversaries, and we need to be sure that we truly desire the same for our adversaries as well.

Here is another example.

Luk 23:33
And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
Luk 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

While on the cross, Jesus asked his Father to forgive those who were responsible for crucifying him. Did God immediately grant Jesus his request? No, I believe that it can be proven scripturally that he did not. However, Jesus' disciples were commissioned to go to Jerusalem to preach repentance after his resurrection from the dead, and some of those responsible for Jesus' crucifixion did repent, and, therefore, they received the forgiveness or mercy which Christ truly desired for them. If Christ truly is our example, then we need to truly be desirous for Divine mercy towards our adversaries as well, and that will ultimately require repentance on their parts.

Solomon, via Divine wisdom, said:

Pro 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Again, I do believe, as you seemingly do as well, that people need to confess and forsake their sins to obtain mercy, or I do believe that genuine repentance needs to precede forgiveness. However, even if those who seek to harm us have not yet come to this place of repentance, we ought to be praying that they eventually will, or we ought to be seeking mercy for their sins as opposed to justice or judgment.

To keep this real (remember my username), earlier today, I was thinking about a certain forum member here who has terribly misjudged me several times. And when I say terribly, I mean TERRIBLY!!! Worse or scarier still, this individual totally believes that they are in the right. Was it pleasant for me to think about such things? No, it was not, but, in all honesty, I did take the time today to seriously pray for that person to be convicted by God for their sins so that they might repent and receive mercy from him. Anyhow, my point is that I do practice what I preach.

Jas 2:13
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Mercy rejoices against judgment, and it is mercy that we should always be seeking for our adversaries. Hopefully, you understand what I am saying.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,692
3,794
113
#10
Psalms 31:18 NASB1995
[18] Let the lying lips be mute, Which speak arrogantly against the righteous With pride and contempt.

I am still bleeding over libelous lips that accused my character months ago. We need functioning shepherds on here, and accountability that people aren't allowed to make baseless accusations.
The best recourse is to put them on ignore and forget about them. If they smell blood it only encourages them. More monitors would be nice, but realistically I don't see that happening.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
28,200
9,956
113
#11
I'm sure you mean well, friend, but you have some misconceptions there. First off, as God has done a lot of refining of my temper, if I'm still angry it means 1 of 2 things:

1) The issue hasn't been resolved and something needs to be done. Anger is an emotion that comes from our reflecting God. It isn't supposed to be dissipated without effect but rather it informs and energizes our hearts to fight for justice. Justice isn't just some hypothetical concept, but rather a real thing spiritually. Also, justice is core to my calling in particular, so looking to just get over it, if that were even possible, could be very bad.

Along those lines, there is absolutely no place for forgiving a truly unrepentant person. I think people often actually mean giving the issue to God, which sometimes has a place, or forgiving the person who really is repentant on a deep level, but actual forgiveness of a unrepentant person would be evil and destructive. Giving it to God means trusting Him to deal with the issue appropriately when the final outcome is seen, most critically the question of if they do repent. Otherwise the pressure on the spiritual reality might be so strong as to actually destroy something by the injustice that would exist. Concepts such as justice, injustice and forgiveness might sound like untethered concepts, but there is actually a truth behind them which makes it critically important not to treat them lightly. As God matures us, though, we become capable of navigating these things ourselves, and then even if we try to give it to God, He just gives it back because it is our right and responsibility to deal with. Therefore there is really no place for blanket directions to just forgive anyone who has hurt you.

2) Satan is messing with me. This isn't something a person can just choose to get over by choice, but rather the evil spirit has to be dealt with. And yes, I do know how to deal with this if a problem, though it sometimes takes a bit to discern if the source of the unrelenting mental discomfort is something I need to deal with or something I need to rebuke, or even both. If there is an element of this going on though, God is perfectly capable of showing me as He has done many times before.
That's not what the Bible says.

Paul said the first thing is to talk to a brother in private. If he won't listen, talk to him about it in front of other people. If he still won't listen... Cut the traces and just be done with him.

And that's good advice. You're never going to get a truly unrepentant person to do whatever it is you think will make you happy. All it will get you is high blood pressure and probably migraines. Better to just not have anything else to do with that person.
 

jacko

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2024
1,272
747
113
#12
Let it go it’s the Internet. It’s not that Serious after all, it’s an anonymous forum. Surelyy there are more important things in life To be worried about. Block them and move on
 

Ballaurena

Well-known member
May 27, 2024
498
344
63
#16
Hi, Ballaurena.

Although I agree with you that genuine repentance needs to precede forgiveness, there is another variable here. As Christians, we ought to be dead to ourselves and alive unto God through Christ, and dead people do not get offended. If we are truly dead to ourselves and alive unto God through Christ, then when somebody sins against us, we are going to be greatly concerned about them potentially finding mercy, and not at all desirous for justice to be served. Here are a couple of scriptural examples of what I mean.

Act 7:59
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Stephen was totally in the right, and those who stoned him to death were totally in the wrong. However, Stephen's final words were "Lord, lay not this sin to their charge." In other words, he desired mercy, and not justice or judgment, for those who were literally killing him. Did God immediately answer this prayer in accordance to Stephen's wishes? I do not believe that he answered it immediately, but he did later stop Saul on the road to Damascus, and Saul ultimately repented of his sins before God, and Stephen's dying request was answered for one of those responsible for his death. Again, genuine repentance needed to precede Divine forgiveness, but that is truly what Stephen desired for his adversaries, and we need to be sure that we truly desire the same for our adversaries as well.

Here is another example.

Luk 23:33
And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
Luk 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

While on the cross, Jesus asked his Father to forgive those who were responsible for crucifying him. Did God immediately grant Jesus his request? No, I believe that it can be proven scripturally that he did not. However, Jesus' disciples were commissioned to go to Jerusalem to preach repentance after his resurrection from the dead, and some of those responsible for Jesus' crucifixion did repent, and, therefore, they received the forgiveness or mercy which Christ truly desired for them. If Christ truly is our example, then we need to truly be desirous for Divine mercy towards our adversaries as well, and that will ultimately require repentance on their parts.

Solomon, via Divine wisdom, said:

Pro 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy
....(It wouldn't all fit)
First off, thank you for your friendly tone and agreement where possible. A lot of the problems on this website stem from people speaking in a prideful, divisive tone. We may disagree in part, but that doesn't mean we have to be disagreeable. God has shown me that when all parties have Holy Spirit and a real relationship with God, eldership aside, there is likely to be a piece of the whole picture with each person and all are needed to get to real understanding.

You present an interesting aspect of the issue. I appreciate your viewpoint, and do feel that it is helpful, but I also feel like the truth is more complicated. God has taught me a lot about proper judgment, and there are different levels of motive. What really matters is the deepest level of motivation, which is what a person is aligning their life with in their core intentions.

For example, was it wrong for people like Saul/Paul to stone Stephen to death? In truth the answer is yes and no. Saul/Paul was in truth destroying an innocent man that should have been allowed to live, but in his mind he was defending God. Therefore it was appropriate for Stephen to ask God not to hold it against Saul/Paul and others like him. The crucifixion was similar, in that Jesus had to die on the cross, so many people were setup to fail because of what needed to happen rather than because of some particular blackness in their hearts.

But there is a place and reason for holding accountable. This is why we have imprecatory Psalms, and much writing in the prophets of God's wrath against evil doers. My mom has had a lifelong tendency to let other's abuse go when she shouldn't, and a while back as God was doing something to address the issue, she noted that He was teaching her that the abuser needed to be dealt with because otherwise it suggested that she had no value. Similarly, I was once the first person to recognize when someone I was close to had become possessed, and part of that recognition came when they thought God wanted them to die to themself to the point of being erased as a person. Or consider in the book of Esther when Esther had finally told the king the truth, and while the king stepped out of the room in anger, Haman was falling on Esther's couch to beg for his life. When the king saw, he exclaimed of Haman, “Will he even molest the queen while she is with me in the house?” (Verse 7:8) Rather than being granted the mercy he begged for, Haman was then justly sentenced to be impaled on the very pole he had, had set up to impale Mordecai on because he was both consumed by hate and not respecting of Esther's role as the king's wife.

The point of all this is that, yes there is a place for being "dead to ourselves and alive unto God through Christ," and it is a warning that I need to hear and consider, but you also need to recognize that the proper place for that is dying to our flesh, not our real value as people and God's most valuable creations, and even Bride. And therefore there is a proper place for wanting real justice when someone sins against us from a deeply evil place in their heart.

And as I think I probably said in an earlier post, there is also a place for correcting someone because they need it. Looking again at the different layers of motive, a person who deep down wants God, and wants good, is therefore worthy of correction. This is the situation that Hebrews 12 addresses with us before God. Here are verses 4-10:

4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,

“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”

7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness.


Also, again, yes we need to die to ourselves in a way, but our correction and consequence toward evildoers has a place when our motives are rooted in truth and love. In fact that can and should include godly love for both the perpetrator and ourselves. God demonstrates the importance of self-love to us in scripture, as when he proclaims judgment because He is a jealous God (Exodus 20:5), or says all things are for Him (Romans 11:36). He also told us to love our neighbor as ourself, which would be a meaningless directive if we weren't expected to love ourselves (Various).

Thanks and take care, friend.
 

Ballaurena

Well-known member
May 27, 2024
498
344
63
#17
The best recourse is to put them on ignore and forget about them. If they smell blood it only encourages them. More monitors would be nice, but realistically I don't see that happening.
Your input is noted, but I will be going by where God leads me, thanks. It's possible that God will led me there but each situation has its own nuances and particulars to sort through, and dealing with those seems to be core to my calling in particular. As with any type of war, though, being called and trained to fight doesn't mean there isn't a place for preventative measures where possible since real harm can be done to the best of soldiers. You are probably right that it won't happen, but we still need to do our due diligence to explore the possibility, especially with our having access to God as our helper.
 

Ballaurena

Well-known member
May 27, 2024
498
344
63
#18
Let it go it’s the Internet. It’s not that Serious after all, it’s an anonymous forum. Surelyy there are more important things in life To be worried about. Block them and move on
To automatically block anyone and move on would be to say I have no love for them, or that they are already hopelessly condemned. It would also suggest that I have no value as a human being. And your downplaying things as "not that Serious" when you don't even know the particulars is certainly out of place. It also makes me wonder if you are actually trying to downplay something you are also guilty of. Does not the Bible say that we will answer for every stray word we have spoken for a reason?

At this point God does seem to have shown me that Satan was exacerbating things, but there can be no such autopilot responses if we are to become mature and godly reflections of our Lord who is holy, righteous, loving and just.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
28,200
9,956
113
#19
First off, thank you for your friendly tone and agreement where possible. A lot of the problems on this website stem from people speaking in a prideful, divisive tone. We may disagree in part, but that doesn't mean we have to be disagreeable. God has shown me that when all parties have Holy Spirit and a real relationship with God, eldership aside, there is likely to be a piece of the whole picture with each person and all are needed to get to real understanding.

You present an interesting aspect of the issue. I appreciate your viewpoint, and do feel that it is helpful, but I also feel like the truth is more complicated. God has taught me a lot about proper judgment, and there are different levels of motive. What really matters is the deepest level of motivation, which is what a person is aligning their life with in their core intentions.

For example, was it wrong for people like Saul/Paul to stone Stephen to death? In truth the answer is yes and no. Saul/Paul was in truth destroying an innocent man that should have been allowed to live, but in his mind he was defending God. Therefore it was appropriate for Stephen to ask God not to hold it against Saul/Paul and others like him. The crucifixion was similar, in that Jesus had to die on the cross, so many people were setup to fail because of what needed to happen rather than because of some particular blackness in their hearts.

But there is a place and reason for holding accountable. This is why we have imprecatory Psalms, and much writing in the prophets of God's wrath against evil doers. My mom has had a lifelong tendency to let other's abuse go when she shouldn't, and a while back as God was doing something to address the issue, she noted that He was teaching her that the abuser needed to be dealt with because otherwise it suggested that she had no value. Similarly, I was once the first person to recognize when someone I was close to had become possessed, and part of that recognition came when they thought God wanted them to die to themself to the point of being erased as a person. Or consider in the book of Esther when Esther had finally told the king the truth, and while the king stepped out of the room in anger, Haman was falling on Esther's couch to beg for his life. When the king saw, he exclaimed of Haman, “Will he even molest the queen while she is with me in the house?” (Verse 7:8) Rather than being granted the mercy he begged for, Haman was then justly sentenced to be impaled on the very pole he had, had set up to impale Mordecai on because he was both consumed by hate and not respecting of Esther's role as the king's wife.

The point of all this is that, yes there is a place for being "dead to ourselves and alive unto God through Christ," and it is a warning that I need to hear and consider, but you also need to recognize that the proper place for that is dying to our flesh, not our real value as people and God's most valuable creations, and even Bride. And therefore there is a proper place for wanting real justice when someone sins against us from a deeply evil place in their heart.

And as I think I probably said in an earlier post, there is also a place for correcting someone because they need it. Looking again at the different layers of motive, a person who deep down wants God, and wants good, is therefore worthy of correction. This is the situation that Hebrews 12 addresses with us before God. Here are verses 4-10:

4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,

“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”


7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness.

Also, again, yes we need to die to ourselves in a way, but our correction and consequence toward evildoers has a place when our motives are rooted in truth and love. In fact that can and should include godly love for both the perpetrator and ourselves. God demonstrates the importance of self-love to us in scripture, as when he proclaims judgment because He is a jealous God (Exodus 20:5), or says all things are for Him (Romans 11:36). He also told us to love our neighbor as ourself, which would be a meaningless directive if we weren't expected to love ourselves (Various).

Thanks and take care, friend.
Yes, yes, this is all very eloquently, even grandiloquently put. But it doesn't change the basic economic operation of this forum. We are just not going to be able to afford paid moderators.

Now if you want to personally contribute the money to hire paid moderators around the clock... I'm sure that would be appreciated. But it would be thousands of dollars per week. 168 hours in a week divided by 40 hour work weeks would be 4.2 people being paid to work shifts as moderators. Even at minimum wage that would rack up fast every week. But if you want to make that happen, go for it.
 
Nov 14, 2024
1,360
925
113
#20
First off, thank you for your friendly tone and agreement where possible. A lot of the problems on this website stem from people speaking in a prideful, divisive tone. We may disagree in part, but that doesn't mean we have to be disagreeable. God has shown me that when all parties have Holy Spirit and a real relationship with God, eldership aside, there is likely to be a piece of the whole picture with each person and all are needed to get to real understanding.

You present an interesting aspect of the issue. I appreciate your viewpoint, and do feel that it is helpful, but I also feel like the truth is more complicated. God has taught me a lot about proper judgment, and there are different levels of motive. What really matters is the deepest level of motivation, which is what a person is aligning their life with in their core intentions.

For example, was it wrong for people like Saul/Paul to stone Stephen to death? In truth the answer is yes and no. Saul/Paul was in truth destroying an innocent man that should have been allowed to live, but in his mind he was defending God. Therefore it was appropriate for Stephen to ask God not to hold it against Saul/Paul and others like him. The crucifixion was similar, in that Jesus had to die on the cross, so many people were setup to fail because of what needed to happen rather than because of some particular blackness in their hearts.

But there is a place and reason for holding accountable. This is why we have imprecatory Psalms, and much writing in the prophets of God's wrath against evil doers. My mom has had a lifelong tendency to let other's abuse go when she shouldn't, and a while back as God was doing something to address the issue, she noted that He was teaching her that the abuser needed to be dealt with because otherwise it suggested that she had no value. Similarly, I was once the first person to recognize when someone I was close to had become possessed, and part of that recognition came when they thought God wanted them to die to themself to the point of being erased as a person. Or consider in the book of Esther when Esther had finally told the king the truth, and while the king stepped out of the room in anger, Haman was falling on Esther's couch to beg for his life. When the king saw, he exclaimed of Haman, “Will he even molest the queen while she is with me in the house?” (Verse 7:8) Rather than being granted the mercy he begged for, Haman was then justly sentenced to be impaled on the very pole he had, had set up to impale Mordecai on because he was both consumed by hate and not respecting of Esther's role as the king's wife.

The point of all this is that, yes there is a place for being "dead to ourselves and alive unto God through Christ," and it is a warning that I need to hear and consider, but you also need to recognize that the proper place for that is dying to our flesh, not our real value as people and God's most valuable creations, and even Bride. And therefore there is a proper place for wanting real justice when someone sins against us from a deeply evil place in their heart.

And as I think I probably said in an earlier post, there is also a place for correcting someone because they need it. Looking again at the different layers of motive, a person who deep down wants God, and wants good, is therefore worthy of correction. This is the situation that Hebrews 12 addresses with us before God. Here are verses 4-10:

4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,

“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”


7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness.

Also, again, yes we need to die to ourselves in a way, but our correction and consequence toward evildoers has a place when our motives are rooted in truth and love. In fact that can and should include godly love for both the perpetrator and ourselves. God demonstrates the importance of self-love to us in scripture, as when he proclaims judgment because He is a jealous God (Exodus 20:5), or says all things are for Him (Romans 11:36). He also told us to love our neighbor as ourself, which would be a meaningless directive if we weren't expected to love ourselves (Various).

Thanks and take care, friend.
I get what you are saying, but I was never implying that we should somehow "devalue ourselves." Quite frankly, it is impossible to do the same. Why? Because our value is determined by the price that God was willing to pay to purchase us, and that price was the precious blood of Jesus Christ. Nothing that anybody could ever say or do to us can remove or diminish that value.

In a very real sense, this ties back to what I said before about how Christ simply looked up when he was being reviled in order to get his Father's righteous judgment or assessment of the situation. In Jesus' case, the Father's righteous assessment always was "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." God's assessment of us? There will be times, and, hopefully, many times, when the Father's assessment of us will be the same because we are being falsely judged or accused. At other times, because we are not perfect, there will be partial or possibly total truth to what others have to say about us. In such cases, we need to repent and apologize to those we have offended.

In the scenario that you have described about yourself, you have maintained your Innocence. If such is the case (and I am not doubting that it is), then how would you be "devalued" by being falsely accused and taking it? You are still of great value in God's sight, and no slander can ever change that. The problem arises when we do not look up to get our heavenly Father's assessment of the situation, but, instead, we give other people a godlike status in our lives. At those times, we feel "devalued," but, again, in God's sight, which is the only sight that really matters, our value has not diminished in the least. Instead, we are merely suffering as Christians as Christ himself suffered, and Jesus said that we should rejoice at such times. I hope that you understand what I am trying to say here.

Having said all of that, I do believe that the godly and loving thing to do when somebody mistreats us is to rebuke them for their own potential good. In fact, one of the foundational portions of scripture which governs my own life is this one.

Pro 27:5
Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Pro 27:6
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

To openly rebuke someone, when they need it, is better than to secretly love them. As you stated, God chastens and scourges those whom he loves and receives, and if we are truly going to love as God loves, then there will be times when we will need to do the same. Also, if we are truly someone's friend, then there are going to be times when we will need to faithfully wound them for their own good. Kissing up to people, when they need to be faithfully wounded, is the work of a deceitful enemy, and not the work of a truly faithful friend.

Anyhow, I agree that people need to repent to find forgiveness, and that we should do our parts in that potential process by rebuking or reproving them when such is needed. At the same time, however, we need to guard our hearts from a possible root of bitterness springing up which can easily defile us.