Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Bless you and burst out laughing but i must say, that's conflating choice with free will. I think we have agency and choice but the only one who has free will is the BIG GUY upstairs, he's the only one who can do what he wants unilaterally. Us created need tacit approval or help unless it involves something inconsequential to others.
I half follow you through some of this, but to suggest Jesus was born with the same nature as us is just very wrong. While Jesus was born 100% man, He was not born of Adam. I don't want to act like I'm teaching you anything here, you seem to get it for the most part until I read "If He did not come with the same nature as you and me then He is not our example, He had a huge advantage". Are you kidding here? Jesus was born of the Spirit and flesh, but not of Adam. The rest of your comment seems to understand this, but the only way we can know the Spirit is when we are born again, or reborn of the Spirit, a nature we've NEVER known until God transforms us, and the ONLY nature Jesus ever knew, so this last sentence is just false from top to bottom no matter what angle you want to look at it from. I really don't understand why so many seem to want to diminish Gods power and complete superiority and sovereignty over us. He is our example because He didn't share our nature, and I don't get the logic in saying He can't be our example if this isn't true.
He had to make himself be as a man... FULLY.
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who,
though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God
a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,
being born in the likeness of men." Philippians 2:5-7
He had to make himself to be the second Adam to reverse the problem caused by the first Adam....
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who,
though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God
a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,
being born in the likeness of men." Philippians 2:5-7
He had to make himself to be the second Adam to reverse the problem caused by the first Adam....
How is the the baby disconnected from God like a 99 yo sinner.... ?
How has sin seperated the baby that has not committed sin?
What causes separation ?
Sin causes separation and if the child has not sinned. Not guilty of choosing sin then by which charge, law are they found guilty.
All have sinned and all are sinful because of the choices we make.
We are born with in the flesh that is powerless to overcome without Gods help.
So I agree that we are hopeless but and born with sinful natures but the way it works is ..... sin = death.
You are saying we have sinned before we have choosen to sin. No sin = death ...
Jesus was tempted in all points like you and me.
He was born of the flesh like us but He never sinned. He was full of the Spirit and did not obey the flesh.
We too can be like Jesus..
If Jesus was not born like us How can we be like Him?
How has sin seperated the baby that has not committed sin?
What causes separation ?
Sin causes separation and if the child has not sinned. Not guilty of choosing sin then by which charge, law are they found guilty.
All have sinned and all are sinful because of the choices we make.
We are born with in the flesh that is powerless to overcome without Gods help.
So I agree that we are hopeless but and born with sinful natures but the way it works is ..... sin = death.
You are saying we have sinned before we have choosen to sin. No sin = death ...
Jesus was tempted in all points like you and me.
He was born of the flesh like us but He never sinned. He was full of the Spirit and did not obey the flesh.
We too can be like Jesus..
If Jesus was not born like us How can we be like Him?
Are we guilty of sin and death when we are born or not?
When God judges us, how do we stand when we are first born?
We are neither saved or unsaved.
Babies have not choosen to sin or choosen to follow Jesus.
When does our inherited fallen nature dissappear? We fight it every day
War against the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Walking in the Spirit is the solution but the corrupted flesh does not go away.
Does this mean we are always seperated from God because the flesh is still part of me?
When God judges us, how do we stand when we are first born?
We are neither saved or unsaved.
Babies have not choosen to sin or choosen to follow Jesus.
When does our inherited fallen nature dissappear? We fight it every day
War against the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Walking in the Spirit is the solution but the corrupted flesh does not go away.
Does this mean we are always seperated from God because the flesh is still part of me?
Of course God wants the giver to be cheerful.
Here is how you make sure that the giver can be cheerful when giving...
desire to maintain being real before God, and not made into some programmable puppet of religiosity.
............
Here is how you make sure that the giver can be cheerful when giving...
Let each one give as he has made up his own mind and purposed in his heart,
not reluctantly or sorrowfully or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful
giver [whose heart is in his giving]. 2 Corinthians 9:7
Churches that lay down law with tithing will cause all sorts of problems with believers who trulydesire to maintain being real before God, and not made into some programmable puppet of religiosity.
............
Grasp
God can't be equal with God because there is only One Mighty God, Everlasting Father.
John 14:9
Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
John 5:18
Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
God can't be equal with God because there is only One Mighty God, Everlasting Father.
John 14:9
Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
John 5:18
Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
That's a great explanation thank you.
The natures, spirit and soul?
John 12:27
Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? No, it is for this purpose that I have come to this hour.
Luke 23:46
And having called out in a loud voice, Jesus said, "Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit." And having said this, He breathed His last.
The natures, spirit and soul?
John 12:27
Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? No, it is for this purpose that I have come to this hour.
Luke 23:46
And having called out in a loud voice, Jesus said, "Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit." And having said this, He breathed His last.
Please give clear bible verses...
Gen 2:7 KJV And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
In the creation I see only 2 ingredients
Dust and breath
This resulted in a living soul
Man became a living soul.
Psa 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Life from God is what He put into our physical bodies and we became a living soul.
Gen 2:7 KJV And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
In the creation I see only 2 ingredients
Dust and breath
This resulted in a living soul
Man became a living soul.
Psa 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Life from God is what He put into our physical bodies and we became a living soul.
You can search it " Gen 2:7 breath of lives plural" -and find out what I am about to say is true.
The problem is that tradition sometimes trumps accuracy for translators.
Here is the problem:
............."and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life."
The Hebrew does not say that.
This is more accurate.,..
................"and breathed into his nostrils the breath of lives." It's plural!
The original state of Adam was unfallen and without sin. Therefore?
God breathed into his nostrils both soul life (soul) and his human spirit!
A living soul is a soul that is spiritually alive! Having both soul and human spirit!
That is how he became a 'living soul!'
................
The problem is that tradition sometimes trumps accuracy for translators.
Here is the problem:
............."and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life."
The Hebrew does not say that.
This is more accurate.,..
................"and breathed into his nostrils the breath of lives." It's plural!
The original state of Adam was unfallen and without sin. Therefore?
God breathed into his nostrils both soul life (soul) and his human spirit!
A living soul is a soul that is spiritually alive! Having both soul and human spirit!
That is how he became a 'living soul!'
................
What makes you a troll i don't find amusing or interesting, is your lack of imagination and creativity. You're just unpleasant and far too predictable, decent example being the above post of yours.
You waited some hours until you hoped i was out of the way, probably hoping i might have lost interest. Which won't happen, i understand your type/ilk and will throw enough spanners in your works, for you to realise you're cruising for a bruising.
However, trolls aren't created in a vacuum, your need to control others could be a result of personal hurt and damage to you. Which elicits some understanding but must not be indulged, as causing harm to others is unacceptable/wrong and harmful to you too. Hope you have the slight cover being very young offers but sadly, i strongly suspect you're of mature years.
You waited some hours until you hoped i was out of the way, probably hoping i might have lost interest. Which won't happen, i understand your type/ilk and will throw enough spanners in your works, for you to realise you're cruising for a bruising.
However, trolls aren't created in a vacuum, your need to control others could be a result of personal hurt and damage to you. Which elicits some understanding but must not be indulged, as causing harm to others is unacceptable/wrong and harmful to you too. Hope you have the slight cover being very young offers but sadly, i strongly suspect you're of mature years.
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The soul is used for both good and bad people. Those with God's Spirit and those without God's Spirit.
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
1Pe 3:20 ....when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Lev 7:21 Moreover the soul that shall touch any unclean thing, as the uncleanness of man,.....even that soul shall be cut off from his people.
Lev 4:2 ..... If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:
Job 12:10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
The Soul of every living thing.
Every living thing has a soul..
Strong's Definition: From H5314; properly a breathing creature.....
Isa 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul?
Rom 2:8-10
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
The word soul in all these verses does not fit with a Godly spirit that comes and goes.
The soul dies.
All have a soul.
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
1Pe 3:20 ....when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Lev 7:21 Moreover the soul that shall touch any unclean thing, as the uncleanness of man,.....even that soul shall be cut off from his people.
Lev 4:2 ..... If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:
Job 12:10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
The Soul of every living thing.
Every living thing has a soul..
Strong's Definition: From H5314; properly a breathing creature.....
Isa 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul?
Rom 2:8-10
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
The word soul in all these verses does not fit with a Godly spirit that comes and goes.
The soul dies.
All have a soul.