The double-standards of the preterist and why I left that system

[CS1]

• Amillennialism means the denial of a millennium amillennialism is based on an allegorical or figurative interpretation of biblical prophecy.
• Postmillennialism teaches that Christ's second coming is after the Millennium, which postmillennialists define as the Church Age in which we are now living.
• Premillennialism acknowledges that Christ will come to earth before the Millennium to set up His earthly kingdom of 1,000 years.

The terms used in a scholarly study of biblical end-time prophecy can be confusing. There is amillennialism, postmillennialism, and premillennialism. Then the terms get more confusing with pre-Tribulation, mid-Tribulation, and post-Tribulation.

Lets talk about these three shall we?

 

[CS1]

• Amillennialism means the denial of a millennium amillennialism is based on an allegorical or figurative interpretation of biblical prophecy.
• Postmillennialism teaches that Christ's second coming is after the Millennium, which postmillennialists define as the Church Age in which we are now living.
• Premillennialism acknowledges that Christ will come to earth before the Millennium to set up His earthly kingdom of 1,000 years.

The terms used in a scholarly study of biblical end-time prophecy can be confusing. There is amillennialism, postmillennialism, and premillennialism. Then the terms get more confusing with pre-Tribulation, mid-Tribulation, and post-Tribulation.

Lets talk about these three shall we?

The Basis of Amillennialism

As we have already noted, amillennialism is based on an allegorical or figurative interpretation of biblical prophecy. Since this interpretation of prophecy began within a few centuries of the death of Jesus, it became the prophecy interpretation of the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches, both of which retain this position today. The view is held by many liberal Protestant groups and the is the most common view of various evangelical reformed groups today.

Amillennialism teaches that the saints of all ages are members of the church. So the church has replaced national Israel under the New Covenant. There is no end-time role for Israel! Therefore, it applies all the Old Testament prophecies about a restored Israel to the church. Whereas premillennialists consider the 1948 formation of a national Israel in Palestine* a significant event in prophecy, amillennialists claim that the event is irrelevant to God’s end-time plan. But the promises that have yet to be fulfilled cannot be overlooked so easily. Israel will be blessed with peace, prosperity, and its own land, according to the Bible (Leviticus 26:4-12 and reaffirmed in Deuteronomy 28:3-12). Israel will be a great nation, blessed more than all other nations, according to the Bible (Deuteronomy 7:14 and 28:1).

Israel, of course, is expected to listen to and obey the voice of the Lord (Deuteronomy 28:1 and Exodus 19:5). But that obedience is also a part of end-time prophecy. “This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. . . . They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God” (Ezekiel 37:21, 23). The New Testament confirms what the Old Testament promises: “Israel has experienced a hardening, in part, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved” (Romans 11:25-26). The vast difference between a literal reading and a symbolic interpretation alone here is obvious.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Until it was destroyed, there was a period of transition which God allowed.

That idea, from what I understand is based on a warped understanding of Hebrews 9:8 that is taught in preterism.

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

But if you actually look at the context; the discussion in Hebrews 9 does not refer to the destruction of the temple at all; but in fact this verse with the verse GaryA mentioned earlier, (Mark 15:38) shows that there cannot have been an 'overlap', 'transition' or 'intertestamental period'.

 

[HeIsHere]

That idea, from what I understand is based on a warped understanding of Hebrews 9:8 that is taught in preterism.

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

But if you actually look at the context; the discussion in Hebrews 9 does not refer to the destruction of the temple at all; but in fact this verse with the verse GaryA mentioned earlier, (Mark 15:38) shows that there cannot have been an 'overlap', 'transition' or 'intertestamental period'.

Can you be specific about "warped"?

The destruction of he temple occurred in 70 AD, until that time there was still sacrifices occurring and some people being converted to the faith (that is time of transition) once the temple was destroyed the entire religious system of ancient Israel was done.

There is nothing warped, it is historical fact.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Can you be specific about "warped"?

Sure- there is preterist preaching that says that this verse is saying that the temple had to be destroyed in order for the new covenant to take effect: but that is not even close to what this passage is talking about.

) once the temple was destroyed the entire religious system of ancient Israel was done.

The existence of jews and Judaism certainly carried on through the destruction of the temple and through the centuries afterward and some are still being converted today.

Now if by "done" you mean invalid for purposes of atonement, etc. that was already true since the beginning of the new covenant.

 

[HeIsHere]

Sure- there is preterist preaching that says that this verse is saying that the temple had to be destroyed in order for the new covenant to take effect: but that is not even close to what this passage is talking about.

The existence of jews and Judaism certainly carried on through the destruction of the temple and through the centuries afterward and some are still being converted today.

Now if by "done" you mean invalid for purposes of atonement, etc. that was already true since the beginning of the new covenant.

Have you read anything by Josephus?

 

[Jimbone]

Sure- there is preterist preaching that says that this verse is saying that the temple had to be destroyed in order for the new covenant to take effect: but that is not even close to what this passage is talking about.

The existence of jews and Judaism certainly carried on through the destruction of the temple and through the centuries afterward and some are still being converted today.

Now if by "done" you mean invalid for purposes of atonement, etc. that was already true since the beginning of the new covenant.

It was done in the sense God said it was done. The whole purpose of the Temple and sacrificial system was to point to Jesus. Jesus came and fulfilled His purpose leaving the whole purpose of the temple fulfilled as well. By done I imagine He meant finished, fulfilled, over, or done.

 

[SomeDisciple]

It was done in the sense God said it was done. The whole purpose of the Temple and sacrificial system was to point to Jesus. Jesus came and fulfilled His purpose leaving the whole purpose of the temple fulfilled as well. By done I imagine He meant finished, fulfilled, over, or done.

Bruh, do you have a point? What point of my post did you even disagree with?

 

[SomeDisciple]

Have you read anything by Josephus?

Yes; but you have to keep in mind that not only is Josephus an extra-bilical source; but there are also different versions of his work that say different things.

 

[HeIsHere]

Yes; but you have to keep in mind that not only is Josephus an extra-bilical source; but there are also different versions of his work that say different things.

Yes it is an extra-biblical source, yet a very important, informative source.

There Levitical system of sacrifices is no longer in operation.
One age ended and the new one started and there was a time of transition in between.

I cannot see how his is disputable.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The destruction of he temple occurred in 70 AD, until that time there was still sacrifices occurring and some people being converted to the faith (that is time of transition) once the temple was destroyed the entire religious system of ancient Israel was done.

There is nothing warped, it is historical fact.

“once the temple was destroyed the entire religious system of ancient Israel was done.”

Exactly they can’t perform anything such as an atonement none of the priestly sacrifices without a temple and why would God ever go back to sinful preists sacrificing animals for sin atonement’s ect ? When now we have anew testament written in the blood of Jesus our worthy atonement made by himself


“Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Komentaja]

Well - this happens to be a case of not being able to tell you what it is so much as what it is not. With the exception of the phrase 'the temple of God', the verse as a whole certainly makes sense as fitting into a future-time event. But we know that - the moment "the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom" (Mark 15:38) - there could no longer be a legitimate 'the temple of God' in the form of a physical building/structure. The only valid answer to this phrase would seem to have to be "in the abstract" somehow and not referring to an actual physical building/structure of any kind.

The only reason you are forced to say that is because you just refuse to believe the temple will be rebuilt. Simple as that.

 

[Komentaja]

I think if we just read longer sections for instance the op mentions this

“But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be…..

but when Jesus is done telling them what’s about to happen in Jerusalem to them preparing them he eventually comes to this place

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:20-21, 34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that part tells us it was going to happen in that generation which 70 ad was about appx 30 yrs after Jesus told them and prepared them for the destruction of Jerusalem and it’s desolation.

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. ( it’s about the things in the ot being fulfilled the wrath upon jerusalem ) But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Nothing ever says it’s going to be rebuilt in the nt but after the time of the gentiles being allowed into the kingdom then Christ will return

The temples purpose was a holy place for Gods spirit to dwell in the center of and he could dwell
Among the people this way be among his chosen israelite people ….but that’s the Old Testament now he has a temple already

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God doesn’t need a building now he has a church to dwell within and among that’s new there’s no purpose any longer for a temple …..it has no function anymore there’s no building on earth God will dwell within because he dwells in believers and they in him . There’s a place restored Jerusalem but no temple in it

“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ….And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. ( he describes the city )

….And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:2, 9, 22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s no more need for an imperfect levite priest to sacrifice animals blood upon an altar , and the veil was already torn to hide the inner most holy place .

No more need for the daily sacrifices ect if you break it down everything the temple was built for is already fulfilled in Christianity .



Jerusalem will eventually be revealed but for now it’s a heavenly place and will come from heaven to earth

How do you have Matthew 24:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 12:7, and Revelation 11:1-15fulfilled? Matthew 24 and Daniel 12 both speak of a time of tribulation never seen before, this is the same time period, during this time period the daily sacrifices are stopped and the abomination of desolation occurs, and for anyone trying to put that solely into the AD70 timewindow, you have to explain why in Matthew 24:31 and Daniel 12:2 immediately after this tribulation there is a resurrection?

I agree logically the 3rd temple makes no sense, but biblically it just has to be, for Scripture to be fulfilled. All the alternative interpretations are really really weak.

 

[TMS]

Once I saw all these glaring faults in the preterist system I have since abandoned it in favour of a simple, yet biblical method of reading the book. Once you read in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 of a man of sin sitting in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be god, you can believe there will be a man who will sit in a temple in Jerusalem doing that, you can know by comparing it to Matthew, Revelation, Daniel, Mark. You line all the verses together and they match perfectly.

In conclusion, if you read this far: Congratulations. I have too much free time But I wanted to type this out, who knows, this convinced me to leave preterism, maybe someone else will be inclined to leave as well.

I'm glad you seen the truth about preterism.
I just hope you don't fall into the trap of futurism...

Many of the prophesies have dual applications.. they applied to the people of God at Jesus's first coming and will apply at the second coming. But the second is more so spiritual..

Israel today are those that love and obey Jesus.

Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

One faith.....

Jesus does not touch this Earth until the 1000 years have finished.

Futurism was invented at the same time as preterism and is just as (even more) deceptive.

Research the reason why preterism and futurism were invented and that will help you understand why they are evil.

 

[HeIsHere]

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Amen!

 

[HeIsHere]

The only reason you are forced to say that is because you just refuse to believe the temple will be rebuilt. Simple as that.

If it is rebuilt it will not be prophetic nor in God's will.

See Post by @Pilgrimshope
#111

 

[HeIsHere]

I'm glad you seen the truth about preterism.

Jesus was a preterist, His words make it clear.
It was not invented, it was understood.
There is nothing in scripture that states there will be dual, triple and quadruple fulfillments.

What is very clear is that God told us about the end of the age (Preterism) and what that would look like and then the start of the new age.

 

[TMS]

Jesus was a preterist, His words make it clear.
It was not invented, it was understood.
There is nothing in scripture that states there will be dual, triple and quadruple fulfillments.

What is very clear is that God told us about the end of the age (Preterism) and what that would look like and then the start of the new age.

Look up the definition of
Historism
Preterism
And Futurism

Jesus was followed Historism.

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
We should study the days of Noah to see what is coming in our days.
Mat 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Luk 11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.

If you look at many things in the old testament they have dual application.

Mostly pointing to Jesus both to the first and the second coming of Jesus.

We can learn lots from the past...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The only reason you are forced to say that is because you just refuse to believe the temple will be rebuilt. Simple as that.

How do you have Matthew 24:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 12:7, and Revelation 11:1-15fulfilled? Matthew 24 and Daniel 12 both speak of a time of tribulation never seen before, this is the same time period, during this time period the daily sacrifices are stopped and the abomination of desolation occurs, and for anyone trying to put that solely into the AD70 timewindow, you have to explain why in Matthew 24:31 and Daniel 12:2 immediately after this tribulation there is a resurrection?

I agree logically the 3rd temple makes no sense, but biblically it just has to be, for Scripture to be fulfilled. All the alternative interpretations are really really weak.

do you have Matthew 24:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 12:7, and Revelation 11:1-15fulfilled? Matthew 24 and Daniel 12 both speak of a time of tribulation never seen before”

you have to remove this don’t you to make it not happen when Jesus said it would ?

“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All I’m doing is reading the whole section and noticing he said it would happen to those he was speaking to in that generation the first generation of the church ….and it’s strangle tbat most of them were slaughtered mercilessly by rome that tbier city was besieged like the ot said it would be , that the people were slaughtered as it said that thier temple was torn down and hasn’t been rebuilt for 2000 years aboit now that an Islamic mosque now sits atop the temple mound ect

at he reason I believe it’s about that generation and what happened in 70 ad is because Jesus said it would happen in that generation. Seems like just readin comprehension

 

[Komentaja]

do you have Matthew 24:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 12:7, and Revelation 11:1-15fulfilled? Matthew 24 and Daniel 12 both speak of a time of tribulation never seen before”

you have to remove this don’t you to make it not happen when Jesus said it would ?

“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All I’m doing is reading the whole section and noticing he said it would happen to those he was speaking to in that generation the first generation of the church ….and it’s strangle tbat most of them were slaughtered mercilessly by rome that tbier city was besieged like the ot said it would be , that the people were slaughtered as it said that thier temple was torn down and hasn’t been rebuilt for 2000 years aboit now that an Islamic mosque now sits atop the temple mound ect

at he reason I believe it’s about that generation and what happened in 70 ad is because Jesus said it would happen in that generation. Seems like just readin comprehension

I just simply view the verse differently. Jesus talks about looking at the fig tree and seeing it blossom, reading the signs, and then says this generation shall not pass. Meaning the generation that witnesses these signs.

No matter how you try to interpret it, Jesus did NOT return in AD70. The elect were NOT gathered in AD70.