Loss of salvation???
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Actually, no. He wasn't, and it was indeed about justification, not sanctification. I'm not sure how you got that so backward, so here is what James actually said...in brief:
James 2:14, 17, 20-22, 24
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? ...
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. ...
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? ...
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Sanctification isn't even mentioned in the entirety of the book of James that I can find using Blue Letter Bible online.
Perhaps you didn't mean to say it that way, and therefore have a clarification?
MM
James 2:14, 17, 20-22, 24
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? ...
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. ...
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? ...
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Sanctification isn't even mentioned in the entirety of the book of James that I can find using Blue Letter Bible online.
Perhaps you didn't mean to say it that way, and therefore have a clarification?
MM
James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
YOU see sanctification and believers works as evidence. Sanctified and working for the Lord.
God sees, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. Justified, through faith alone.
The believers who do not advance.......Sin unto death. Discipline. Loss of rewards. Loss of reign. Saved as if through fire. Shame.
YOU see sanctification and believers works as evidence. Sanctified and working for the Lord.
God sees, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. Justified, through faith alone.
The believers who do not advance.......Sin unto death. Discipline. Loss of rewards. Loss of reign. Saved as if through fire. Shame.
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This is long after Paul's conversion:
Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
According to James, it was only faith and works for salvation, with works continuing for reward, and yes, adherence to the commandments, which is the Law, as is stated by the counsel of the apostles reporting such to Paul. They did not hold back on the continuation with the Law. That is the nature of the Kingdom Gospel that most Gentiles don't like to hear because that destroys their desire for the rudiments of replacement theology. They don't want to be back under what the Jews celebrated and boasted about to Paul.
MM
Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
According to James, it was only faith and works for salvation, with works continuing for reward, and yes, adherence to the commandments, which is the Law, as is stated by the counsel of the apostles reporting such to Paul. They did not hold back on the continuation with the Law. That is the nature of the Kingdom Gospel that most Gentiles don't like to hear because that destroys their desire for the rudiments of replacement theology. They don't want to be back under what the Jews celebrated and boasted about to Paul.
MM
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Ok, I'm not sure what you missed in what James stated with emphatic and clear language, but he was in fact talking exactly about salvation:
James 2:14, 17, 20-22, 24
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? ...
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. ...
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? ...
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
We all know that faith is one of the two most crucial of the elements for salvation, with the Blood of Christ being THE most important.
Paul, not once, even hinted at the requirement for water baptism for salvation as did Peter when speaking to all those Jews in Acts 2, many of whom were from many different countries with varied language barriers among them.
James at no point ever draw back from the requirement for works for salvation. Nowhere did James speak of sanctification.
For all who are reading, justification and sanctification are not at ALL the same thing...just in case anyone is mixing them up. Justification is an event, where sanctification is a process.
MM
James 2:14, 17, 20-22, 24
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? ...
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. ...
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? ...
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
We all know that faith is one of the two most crucial of the elements for salvation, with the Blood of Christ being THE most important.
Paul, not once, even hinted at the requirement for water baptism for salvation as did Peter when speaking to all those Jews in Acts 2, many of whom were from many different countries with varied language barriers among them.
James at no point ever draw back from the requirement for works for salvation. Nowhere did James speak of sanctification.
For all who are reading, justification and sanctification are not at ALL the same thing...just in case anyone is mixing them up. Justification is an event, where sanctification is a process.
MM
Agreed.
And this is what @Musicmaster is doing to scripture to advance the thinking that Jews were saved apart from His Grace before the Church age.
And this is what @Musicmaster is doing to scripture to advance the thinking that Jews were saved apart from His Grace before the Church age.
Does that prove you really do not want to understand beyond your over simplistic restrictive method?
In response to your way of thinking...
Paul would say you are refusing the following.
And this is my prayer: that your love may abound
more and more in knowledge and depth of insight. Philippians 1:9
Like I said....
You pray to find a good teacher, unless you like refusing to grow and never growing up.
And this is my prayer: that your love may abound
more and more in knowledge and depth of insight.
grace and peace .............
Grace accomplishes many things for us, but not as much for the OT believers.
For both OT and NT salvation?
The act of salvation could not take place unless grace suppressed the flesh as to free up the soul to make a choice freely.
The Jews received the same salvation grace in their believing on the Lord.
But, the Jews were placed under Law after they were saved.
We are not placed under Law after we are saved, for we have a new form of grace that is given following salvation.
Note carefully how it was worded....
Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you,
searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances
to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the
Messiah and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11
A special grace has come to the Church that the Jews did not have given them!
That grace has us made able to be walking in the Spirit and truth, not under Law.
Now the Spirit controls us, not the Law.
grace and peace .............
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Using N.T. and cite the verses. Does Paul state that faith and love must be growing. Does Paul identify a dead faith as a faith without love.
ChatGPT said:
Yes, in the New Testament, Paul emphasizes that faith and love must be growing, and while he does not use the exact phrase "dead faith" (which is more associated with James), Paul strongly links genuine faith with active love, implying that a faith without love is ineffective or even invalid.
Here’s a breakdown with cited verses:
1. Paul teaches that faith and love must be growing
a) 2 Thessalonians 1:3 (ESV)
a) Galatians 5:6 (ESV)
While Paul doesn't use the phrase "dead faith" (that phrase is from James 2:17), he clearly teaches that:
ChatGPT said:
Yes, in the New Testament, Paul emphasizes that faith and love must be growing, and while he does not use the exact phrase "dead faith" (which is more associated with James), Paul strongly links genuine faith with active love, implying that a faith without love is ineffective or even invalid.
Here’s a breakdown with cited verses:
1. Paul teaches that faith and love must be growing
a) 2 Thessalonians 1:3 (ESV)
“We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers, as is right, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing.”
- Paul clearly commends the growth of both faith and love. The words “growing abundantly” and “increasing” show these qualities are meant to develop over time, not remain static.
“And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment.”
- Paul prays that their love would grow, again showing that love is not merely a one-time feeling or commitment, but a dynamic and increasing quality.
a) Galatians 5:6 (ESV)
“For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.”
- Paul defines authentic faith as one that "works through love." A faith that does not express itself in love is not the kind of faith Paul recognizes as saving or meaningful.
“And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.”
- Even mountain-moving faith is worthless without love. This directly shows that faith without love is ineffective, even though Paul doesn't use the phrase "dead faith."
- Faith and love must grow – 2 Thess. 1:3; Phil. 1:9
- True faith works through love – Gal. 5:6
- Faith without love is meaningless – 1 Cor. 13:2
While Paul doesn't use the phrase "dead faith" (that phrase is from James 2:17), he clearly teaches that:
- Faith and love are meant to increase.
- A faith without love is empty and non-saving.
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Faith does come by hearing but the Holy Spirit is received after believing.
How can we know that someone knows Jesus by that love which is the ultimate defining feature of the Christian life.
Christianity was never an empty doctrinal statement.
Faith is never alone, grace comes first and love follows.
Ai will explain Christian growth in faith, love and knowledge.
Yes, both Paul and John address the idea that faith and love must not be stagnant, and that spiritual growth and fervency are essential in the Christian life. Let’s break this down with New Testament citations for each part of your question.
1. Does Paul state that faith and love must be growing?
Yes, Paul frequently emphasizes that faith and love should increase and grow in the life of a believer.
Here are some key verses:
a) 2 Thessalonians 1:3 (ESV)
This verse is a direct affirmation that Paul expects and commends growth in faith and love.
b) Philippians 1:9 (ESV)
Paul is not content with static love—he prays for it to overflow and mature.
c) 1 Thessalonians 3:12 (ESV)
This again highlights that love must expand and deepen over time.
d) Colossians 1:10 (ESV)
Though this emphasizes growth in knowledge, it’s part of the holistic spiritual growth Paul encourages—faith, love, and knowledge all grow together.
2. What does John mean when he says those that are lukewarm are spat out?
This comes from Revelation 3:15–16, where Jesus (through John’s vision) addresses the church in Laodicea:
Revelation 3:15–16 (ESV)
John is warning that half-hearted discipleship is repugnant to Christ. Jesus desires a faith that is either fervently for Him (hot) or even an honest rejection (cold) over one that pretends to care but does nothing.
Summary
How can we know that someone knows Jesus by that love which is the ultimate defining feature of the Christian life.
Christianity was never an empty doctrinal statement.
Faith is never alone, grace comes first and love follows.
Ai will explain Christian growth in faith, love and knowledge.
Yes, both Paul and John address the idea that faith and love must not be stagnant, and that spiritual growth and fervency are essential in the Christian life. Let’s break this down with New Testament citations for each part of your question.
1. Does Paul state that faith and love must be growing?
Yes, Paul frequently emphasizes that faith and love should increase and grow in the life of a believer.
Here are some key verses:
a) 2 Thessalonians 1:3 (ESV)
“We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers, as is right, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing.”
This verse is a direct affirmation that Paul expects and commends growth in faith and love.
b) Philippians 1:9 (ESV)
“And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment.”
Paul is not content with static love—he prays for it to overflow and mature.
c) 1 Thessalonians 3:12 (ESV)
“And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love for one another and for all, as we do for you.”
This again highlights that love must expand and deepen over time.
d) Colossians 1:10 (ESV)
“… so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him: bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God.”
Though this emphasizes growth in knowledge, it’s part of the holistic spiritual growth Paul encourages—faith, love, and knowledge all grow together.
2. What does John mean when he says those that are lukewarm are spat out?
This comes from Revelation 3:15–16, where Jesus (through John’s vision) addresses the church in Laodicea:
Revelation 3:15–16 (ESV)
“I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.”
What does this mean?- Lukewarm symbolizes spiritual indifference or complacency. The Laodicean church was not fervent in faith (“hot”), nor outright opposed or rejecting of Christ (“cold”). Instead, they were in a passive, self-satisfied, ineffective state.
- The cultural context helps too: Laodicea had lukewarm water that was unpalatable—unlike the hot springs in nearby Hierapolis (used for healing) or the cold, refreshing springs in Colossae. So the metaphor would have been very striking to the original audience.
- “Spitting out” (Greek: emeō – “to vomit”) symbolizes Jesus’ strong rejection of this kind of faith. It’s a vivid image to show how displeasing spiritual lukewarmness is.
John is warning that half-hearted discipleship is repugnant to Christ. Jesus desires a faith that is either fervently for Him (hot) or even an honest rejection (cold) over one that pretends to care but does nothing.
Summary
- Paul teaches that faith and love must be growing and abounding, not static.
- John (in Revelation) conveys that lukewarm, apathetic faith is unacceptable to Christ and will be rejected.
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