Does man have a freewill ?

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Magenta

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from Ephesians 4 verses 17-19 ~ Gentiles walk in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. Having lost all sense of shame, they have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity, with a craving for more.
 

Magenta

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Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death. Now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the outcome is eternal life. 2 Corinthians 3 verse 17; Galatians 5 verse 1; Romans 8 verse 2; from Romans 6 verse 22
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Discussion is pointless if you are unwilling (Matt. 23:37) to acknowledge that Paul answered the jailer's question
about how to be saved by saying "Believe in the Lord Jesus".
When you make something a requirement in salvation, that's by default a law based salvation, as like under the old covenant. Paul was a New Covenant Minister 2 Cor 3:5-6

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Now you promoting the letter with your requirements.
 

brightfame52

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rolleyes ... complete and utter nonsense.





Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.





God has given faith to all mankind ... faith is inherent within all descendants of Adam ... some believe lies and reject God Who has given everything mankind needs in order to come to Him ... like the lie that "Belief in Christ isnt a requirement for salvation".

What we are told in Philippians 1:29 is that just as God provided everything we need in order to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, God shall supply everything we need in order to remain steadfast and not be terrified by [our] adversaries (Phil 1:28) so we are able to withstand when we suffer for His sake (Phil 1:29):

Philippians 1:

27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake

while we suffer for His sake (Phil 1:29), we are not to be terrified by [our] adversaries (Phil 1:28) because God has given us everything we need to stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel (Phil 1:27).





why go back to Acts 13:48 in your reading of Acts 16? ... just continue reading in Acts 16:

Acts 16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
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Believing in Christ is given to the elect, the Sheep, not all mankind. Its not a requirement. Its given by grace. The word given in Phil 1:29 is the greek word charizomai :

to do something pleasant or agreeable (to one), to do a favour to, gratify

  1. to show one's self gracious, kind, benevolent
  2. to grant forgiveness, to pardon
  3. to give graciously, give freely, bestow
    1. to forgive
Believing in Christ is bestowed upon an individual by Grace. And charizomai is from charis , which is Grace. You cant make a Gift of Grace a requirement, that's perverting Salvation by Grace and making it a work

And yes it appears God gave the same grace to believe to members of his home.
 
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you have described the time and effort you put into each of your panels. I work with various computer applications and I can appreciate the investment of time, resources, effort, revisions/edits to get it "just right" ... the "kike the pretender you are" is uncalled for.




praying for Holy Spirit inspiration to get you through ...




sigh ... I searched to see how many times I rolled my eyes at you. Here they are:








and fyi, the reason I type out "rolleyes" is because the smilie doesn't always work for me and it appears wonky in the post.




you are free to place me on ignore
you are free to continue to believe I lied about what you said
you are free to continue to believe I am a pretentious hypocrite


praying that God will work mightily in the Christian Chat forum to restore fellowship between the members of the body of Christ ... of which the Lord Jesus Christ is the Head.

1 Corinthians 12:

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee ...
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Join the club of being put on ignore and being called a liar and other names.

I join your prayer group re spiritual unity on CC!
 
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When you make something a requirement in salvation, that's by default a law based salvation, as like under the old covenant. Paul was a New Covenant Minister 2 Cor 3:5-6

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Now you promoting the letter with your requirements.
No, the condition of faith is NOT law-based salvation nor a meritorious work,
just as someone who accepts your gift does not thereby earn it.
The sufficiency you affirm is what I call seeking grace,
and what Paul refers to as God's leading in Romans,
which enables sinners to seek salvation or not.


1. Romans 1:16 says the Gospel reveals that (s/e) is for “everyone who believes”, both Jew and Gentile.

2. Romans 1:17 describes s/e as “righteousness from God” that is by faith “from first to last” or from creation until the end.

3. Romans 2:4 teaches that God’s kindness or patience with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading.

4. Romans 2:5 warns that those who do not repent but instead stubbornly resist God’s leading are storing up wrath against themselves for the day when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed, which implies that God enables sinners to repent–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19).

5. Romans 2:6 affirms what is called karma by saying that “God will give to each person according to what he has done”, which (in Gal. 6:7-9) is called reaping what a person sows.

6. Romans 2:7 speaks of the need for “persistence in doing good” and seeking glory, honor and immortality in order to receive s/e or eternal life, which echoes what Jesus commanded (in Matt. 7:7) and connects with the doctrine of perseverance (cf. Heb. 10:36 & Jam. 1:3-4).

7. Romans 2:11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17), which is how God judges people justly, so the fact that some sinners ignore God’s Gospel indicates that His will or leading is resistible because of MFW.

8. Romans 2:15 teaches that sinful souls have a conscience or awareness of “the requirements of the law”, which may be combined with Romans 1:20 to teach that God’s power and moral nature or will may be perceived via creation and conscience (called natural revelation), thus those unfamiliar with God’s Word in Scripture have no good reason for resisting divine leading and choosing atheism/evil.

9. Romans 3:20-21 states the law makes souls conscious of sin and that “the Law and Prophets testify” or prepare the way for the new revelation of righteousness from God apart from the Law, which takes up where Romans 1:17 left off.

10. Romans 3:22a says that “righteousness from God” or s/e comes through faith “in Jesus Christ” (cf. Eph. 2:8), a phrase Paul used eleven times in Ephesians 1:3-14 to indicate s/e.

11. Romans 3:22b says that God’s righteousness is given “to all who believe—there is no difference”” signifying that all sinners may believe or be s/e (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16, Tit. 2:11), because there is no favoritism (#7).

12. Romans 3:23 teaches that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”, meaning that no one can be good enough to earn salvation because of their own merit.

13. Romans 3:24 says sinners “are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” (via faith per v.22, cf. 3:27-28); s/e is free because Christ paid the price/cost.

14. Romans 3:25a explains redemption as being “a sacrifice of atonement” for those who have faith in Christ’s work of dying in their place.

15. Romans 3:25b further explains that God demonstrated his just patience (#3) or forbearance in leaving unpunished those sins committed before the revealing of the Gospel (foreshadowed in Gen. 22:8 & 13), implying that sinners had/have the opportunity to believe and be s/e thereby demonstrating God’s justice/not showing favoritism (#11).

16. Romans 3:26 continues to emphasize divine justice by declaring it three ways (“justice…, just…, justifies”), which justness is synonymous with righteousness (2Thes. 1:5-6, Heb. 6:10).

17. Romans 4:1-25 presents Abraham as a Gentile who became the physical father of the Jews and the spiritual father of all who choose to have faith in God/Christ.

18. Romans 5:1 echoes Eph. 2:8 by describing s/e as justification through faith, Eph. 1:5 & 7 by using the phrase “through Jesus Christ”, and Eph. 2:14 by describing s/e as having peace with God.
 
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You cant make a Gift of Grace a requirement, that's perverting Salvation by Grace and making it a work
Philippians 1:29 is not speaking of believing unto salvation. Philippians 1:29 is speaking of the unceasing grace which God bestows upon the born again one so that he or she is enabled to continue on in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as he or she faces the suffering for His sake.

Look at the beginning verses of Philippians 1:

Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons

Paul wrote to the saints in Christ Jesus ... these are born again believers.


Philippians 1:3-6 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ

Paul prayed for their fellowship in the gospel ... unbelievers do not fellowship in the gospel ...


Philippians 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

unbelievers are not filled with the fruits of righteousness


Philippians 1:27-28 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.

unbelievers do not stand fast in one spirit, with one mind, striving together for the faith of the gospel


Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake

God continues to pour out His grace upon the born again believer throughout his or her lifetime so that the believer is able to stand firm in the face of our adversaries ... not terrified by them, but firmly confident in God's provision for each one of us in the Lord Jesus Christ. It is only in Him that we are victorious over any adversity we face ... without Him we can do nothing.

Philippians 1:29 reminds me of what is written in Rom 1:17 ... the just shall live by faith ... the life of the believer is begun in faith and continues in faith. It's not from works to faith or from faith to works, but from faith to faith.
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lrs68

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What does make me chuckle is even though the LAW was personally handed to Moshe by God, the LAW accounts and applies to [(all human beings that have ever existed)]. So whether by natural birth one is a Jew or Gentile they [(ALL)] are still held accountable to the LAW. And God even instructed Moshe that if anyone wanted to join to accept them and they must live according to the LAW.

But somehow, with a God that [[((NEVER CHANGES))]] people have taken the words of Paul and now have turned them from God's view towards ALL HUMANS to just a select few. But they want anyone who can understand that God never changes to believe that He did change. It's the only way that doctrine can exist.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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@GWH

Yes, as Paul and Silas told the Philippian jailer: “Believe in the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 16:31) This is the Gospel kerygma (preaching) or God's requirement for salvation (GRFS) in a nutshell.
Belief in Christ isn't a requirement for salvation, and that's not what Paul said in Acts 6:31 Paul knew that believing on Christ was given to Gods elect, he later wrote to the Philippians that believing on Christ was something given Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

So you think he would have told that Philippian jailor, hey believe on Christ, that's a requirement for salvation.

No, Paul went on and taught the Jailor the word of God, and led him to believe in Christ Acts 16:32

And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

And as Paul spoke to them the word of the Lord, he knew that if they had been appointed to eternal life they would believe Acts 13:48

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Now to say Paul imposes a requirement to the Jailor is not in the text, you cant require a person to do something, which is given as a gift of grace.
 
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What does make me chuckle is even though the LAW was personally handed to Moshe by God, the LAW accounts and applies to [(all human beings that have ever existed)]. So whether by natural birth one is a Jew or Gentile they [(ALL)] are still held accountable to the LAW. And God even instructed Moshe that if anyone wanted to join to accept them and they must live according to the LAW.

But somehow, with a God that [[((NEVER CHANGES))]] people have taken the words of Paul and now have turned them from God's view towards ALL HUMANS to just a select few. But they want anyone who can understand that God never changes to believe that He did change. It's the only way that doctrine can exist.
Yes, God never changes, but human understanding of GW varies.
The Mosaic Law that Paul understood to apply to all including Gentiles eternally is the moral law of love (Gal. 5:6, 16 & 22).
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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@reneweddaybyday

is not speaking of believing unto salvation. Philippians 1:29 is speaking of the unceasing grace which God bestows upon the born again one so that he or she is enabled to continue on in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as he or she faces the suffering for His sake.
Faith/Believing on Christ is not a condition, its a Gracious bestowal given in Salvation. You guys pervert Faith from being a grace given and making it a mans condition to get saved.
 
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Faith/Believing on Christ is not a condition, its a Gracious bestowal given in Salvation.
salvation is the "Gracious bestowal" given to those who believe:

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.




brightfame52 said:
You guys pervert Faith from being a grace given and making it a mans condition to get saved.
who are you to insist that "Belief in Christ isn't a requirement for salvation" when it is God Himself Who tells us the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ...


Romans 1:16-18 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness

If a person suppresses the truth in unrighteousness when the gospel is preached to him or her ... the wrath of God shall surely follow.

You are free to claim I "pervert Faith" ... however, the one who "pervert(s) Faith" is the one who claims "Belief in Christ isn't a requirement for salvation".

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
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I'd also add from context that:
Paul is speaking about things he can only teach to the more mature Christians 1Cor2:6 which alone takes this out of the realm of being about the basics of the Gospel.
yes, HELPS Word-studies defines the word "perfect" [Greek = téleios] as follows:

téleiosmature (consummated) from going through the necessary stages to reach the end-goal, i.e. developed into a consummating completion by fulfilling the necessary process (spiritual journey).

In 1 Cor 2:2, Paul indicated he could speak of Christ, and Him crucified among the general congregation. Christ and Him crucified refers to the gospel and, yes, the gospel is of utmost importance as it is the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.




studier said:
Paul elaborates and says it's about the things God has prepared for those who love Him 1Cor2:9 and says it's about the deep things of God 1Cor2:10 and the things freely given by God to Christians 1Cor2:12 that Paul speaks about in words taught by God's Spirit [which only believers have] 1Cor2:13 and that Christians have the mind/thinking of Christ 1Cor2:16. None of this is about the basics of the Gospel.
right ... believing the gospel is only the beginning ... and the gospel is glorious in scope and magnificence ... and there is much, much more to understand when it comes to what God describes as the hidden wisdom. In fact, Eph 3:8 speaks of the unsearchable riches of Christ. There is no end to this hidden wisdom. :cool:

I do not believe that pointing out the error of placing the gospel so out of reach due to misunderstanding what is revealed concerning the spiritual matters Paul discussed with more mature believers at Corinth in any way, shape, or form diminishes the magnificence of the gospel.




studier said:
To provide an inclusio to the above clarification that Paul is talking about things he can only teach to the more mature Christians, he then says he can only teach the milk to the infants [in Christ] the immature Christians he couldn't yet teach the deep things to, those he could not yet speak to as "spiritual" Christians - which is wording Paul uses to mean they were immature in Spirit, infants [in Christ] as he says. This too means what Paul is talking about is not the basics of the Gospel men are required to believe to become Christians, because he's talking about baby Christians here who have already believed Jesus is the Christ not yet being able to understand this teaching about deeper [spiritual] things.
vs 12 – we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God

vs 13 – Paul says we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth

Now vs 14 – the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him – we either follow man's wisdom or we follow the Lord Jesus Christ. A lot of the believers in the church at Corinth followed men ... that was the whole problem in the church as revealed in 1 Cor 1:10-13, 1 Cor 2:1-5, 1 Cor 3:1-4.

Following men continues on to this day ... that, coupled with a failure to put off the old man is why we see contentiousness on full display ... these things ought not so to be.




studier said:
The natural man cannot understand the mystery, the deep things of God, the things freely given by God to Christians Paul is able to teach only to mature/spiritual Christians and not even to new Christians. The new Christians do not yet have the spiritual vocabulary (words taught by God's Spirit) which is developed as a Christian matures under being taught beyond the milk of God's Word.

As you essentially said, and I fully agree, this is not about the natural man being unable to hear, understand and believe the basic saving message of the Gospel. It's about things even baby Christians (who were natural men but then believed the saving Gospel) can't yet understand but will under continued discipleship.
We are all under tutelage of the Holy Spirit ... none of us has attained full maturity and we never will in this lifetime. We continue to grow and mature, but full maturity will only occur when we see the Lord Jesus Christ face-to-face (and even then, I'm not sure that eternity can bring us to the end of the unsearchable riches of Christ).

1 Corinthians 13:11-12 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
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salvation is the "Gracious bestowal" given to those who believe:

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

who are you to insist that "Belief in Christ isn't a requirement for salvation" when it is God Himself Who tells us the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ...

Romans 1:16-18 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness

If a person suppresses the truth in unrighteousness when the gospel is preached to him or her ... the wrath of God shall surely follow.

You are free to claim I "pervert Faith" ... however, the one who "pervert(s) Faith" is the one who claims "Belief in Christ isn't a requirement for salvation".

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
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Believing in Christ is a gracious bestowment. The word given χαρίζομαι in Phil 1:29

to do something pleasant or agreeable (to one), to do a favour to, gratify

  1. to show one's self gracious, kind, benevolent
  2. to grant forgiveness, to pardon
  3. to give graciously, give freely, bestow
    1. to forgive
JFB writes:

29. For—rather, a proof that this is an evident token from God of your salvation, "Because," &c.
it is given—Greek, "it has been granted as a favor," or "gift of grace." Faith is the gift of God (Eph 2:8), not wrought in the soul by the will of man, but by the Holy Ghost (Joh 1:12, 13).

believe on him—"To believe Him," would merely mean to believe He speaks the truth. "To believe on Him," is to believe in, and trust through, Him to obtain eternal salvation. Suffering for Christ is not only not a mark of God's anger, but a gift of His grace.
Matt Poole:

For unto you it is given; he adds a further argument to move them unto that he had exhorted, from God’s freely bestowing, of his mere grace, what he had required of them.

In the behalf of Christ; upon the account of Christ’s merit and mediation; not that they could have either evangelical faith, or patience, by virtue of their own strength, Philippians 4:13.

Not only to believe on him; that they did not only believe Christ, but believe on him, was not from any power of their own, John 6:37,44, but of God’s free gift, Ephesians 2:8, as they had an instance amongst them in Lydia, Acts 16:14; unto her and others was this victorious grace of faith freely given by the hearing of the word, which was not unto many others that heard, Matthew 13:11 2 Thessalonians 3:2 Titus 1:1; and as the grace itself was given, so was the exercise of it.

But also to suffer for his sake; upon the account of Christ, patience was given; so that to suffer, here, doth not only import a power to suffer, but actual suffering; not only the habit of faith, but the act of believing, even as the fruits of trees at the first creation were produced, as well as the trees which had a power to bear them: wherefore, if, by the grace of God, and Spirit of faith, they were empowered actually to believe, Mark 9:24 1 Corinthians 15:10 2 Corinthians 4:13, having trust through Christ God-ward, 2 Corinthians 3:4; and upon the same account they were continually enabled to suffer, not simply, but in bearing testimony to Christ, Acts 5:41 1 Peter 3:14 4:16; they might be of good comfort and courage, to the daunting of their adversaries.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ,.... For the sake of his Gospel, for the good of his interest, and the glory of his name. The Alexandrian copy reads, "to us it is given", &c,
not only to believe in him; for faith in Christ, which is not merely believing that he is the Christ, and all that is said of him, or all that he himself says, but is a seeing of the Son, a going to him, receiving, embracing, leaning, relying, and living upon him, as God's salvation, is a pure gift of grace; it is not in nature, nor in every man, and in whom it is, it is not of themselves, it is the gift of God; the first implantation of it, all its acts and exercise, its increase, and the performance of it at last with power, are all owing to the grace of God; and this is only given to the elect, for it is a distinguishing gift; it is given to them, and them alone, and, therefore called the faith of God's elect
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Vincent Cheung writes in his Commentary on Philippians 1:29

Sinners will oppose us. Just as true Christian unity has a common biblical theology as its foundation, although sinners appear to have diverse beliefs and cultures, all sinners in fact have only one purpose – to oppose the gospel. As Jesus says, "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters" (Matthew 12:30). Of course unbelievers can appear to unite, since their differences are superficial, whereas true Christians differ with all others at the foundational level. There are really two options – either unite to promote the gospel, or unite to oppose the gospel. Their opposition against those of us who unite around the true gospel is a sign of our salvation and their damnation. The fact that we would unite around the true gospel message and even deny our self-interests to promote it is one sign that God has chosen us for salvation and changed us for service. It is God who grants us grace to believe the gospel, and then grants us grace to suffer for the gospel. On the other hand, the fact that non-Christians would oppose us exposes them as reprobates, designated by God for everlasting damnation. Some of them may be like Paul, who persecuted the church at first, but was later changed by God. But unless that happens, anyone who opposes those who unite around the gospel exposes himself as unsaved, and doomed to destruction. Therefore, when sinners oppose your bold stance for the faith, rejoice that God has granted you faith to believe the gospel, and grace to suffer for the gospel. Everywhere we bring it, the gospel is life to the chosen ones, and death to the reprobates (2 Corinthians 2:14-16). Unlike non-Christian unity, our unity around the gospel is not to enhance our ability for self-preservation; rather, we give up self-preservation for the sake of the gospel (Mark 8:35), but trust God to deliver us.
https://www.vincentcheung.com/books/Commentary on Philippians.pdf
Faith and suffering are elements that accompany Salvation Heb 6:9

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Faith/believing in Christ is not a requirement, thats law talk, Salvation Faith is about Grace, Grace and Law/works dont mix
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Faith/believing in Christ is not a requirement, thats law talk
tell that to the Author of Scripture:

Romans 3:

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets


God's Word reveals righteousness apart from the law ... and specifically states righteousness by faith to all who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ:


Romans 3:

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


Hey ... you don't want to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ ? ... fine by me ... but you will find yourself in a sorry state of affairs come judgment day if you do not believe in Him.

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Sep 2, 2020
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I only speak what I believe, God must change both the heart and mind of those who hear.
“God must change both the heart and mind of those who hear.”


How does he do that ?

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That true scripture leads to this one

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i eouod submit that hearing his word is the very thing that changes our understanding ( heart and mind ) from wrong and corrupt to right and in line with the true God

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i believe hearing Gods true word, the gospel is what leads to faith and changes our mind and heart from corruption to righteousness and gives life to those condemned to die for sin

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭