Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

i started out as more Calvinist March '24. There's a lot right about Calvinism but from what i've read, potential salvation is offered well beyond a small elect group. However, as i said, i had moments where i thought there must be a God but didn't act on it until God decided to activate me. That's the only way i can describe it, we certainly can have moments of semi-belief but our hearts are hostile and must be regenerated by the Spirit. Which can only happen if he calls us.

Don't think Magenta is Calvinist myself, she also knows free will is a lie we're told. Probably so Satan can try to accuse us before God, of being complicit in the evil. i'm definitely the Apologetic/Rational sort of Christian, Mike Winger is my favourite podcaster.

What prevents free will for man?

Man's flesh is fallen flesh.
His fallen flesh possesses the defect we inherited from Adam.

But?
Our soul is not from Adam.
Only our body is.
God creates each and every soul.
The soul from God is not with defect, but becomes distorted by default when our soul is placed in a defective fallen body.

The body's effect upon the soul is like a person getting drunk does things his soul would not want to do.
But while drunk, can't stop doing.

Now? If made sober?
That soul can operate within the realm of its value system.

In other words?
All men are born into a fallen type of drunken state of sinfulness that he can not stop by willing it to stop.

It takes God's grace to sober up that soul.

God's grace *power* enables a soul to be sobered up during predetermined times by God, for making a choice about Christ.
And, even now, for believers, we must remain under the filling of the Spirit as to not walk after the flesh.

Which proves it can be done by grace.
Walking free of the depravity of the flesh by the power of God's grace!




But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may
rest on me." 2 Corinthians 12:9

Grace is God's enabling power to be as God wants us to become.
By God's grace God can bring a person's soul into a state of freedom to make his choice concerning Christ possible.

But, just the same. That state of grace enabling does not guarantee that one will desire to believe in Christ!
That is why the unbeliever will be held accountable for his rejection of God's Son.

Grace and peace ........

 

[cv5]

So you persist in calling man's will free even when it is not.

No doubt whatsoever that man has free will.

Adam made wrong choices while he was yet unfallen and perfectly holy. So did the Woman.
Subsequently, Adam made right choices after the fall had taken place. So did the Woman.

Now you do Cain and Abel.

 

[Genez]

That is not setting anything aside. You cling to your unBiblical presupposition... while pretending you don't.

The Biblical view is, the natural man has a will, it is enslaved to sin. But you can't agree with that.

Is it your right eye?
Or your left one?
Which is the blind one you keep turning to?

It still stands, and is amazing how God has provided for your alleged, fatalistic, incurrable, disease.

So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.​

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Galatians 5:16​

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But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us
from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:7-9​

​

​

.​

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Has anybody defined free will yet?

 

[cv5]

The Biblical view is, the natural man has a will, it is enslaved to sin. But you can't agree with that.

What a mess.

It is the fool that has said (chosen) in his heart (a choice made from the innermost being) that there is no God (that God shall not rule over him) is he that chooses to be a slave to sin, ultimately because he chose to serve evil and the evil one.

Furthermore Jesus is perfectly clear in saying that he who CHOOSES to sin is a slave to it.

 

[Magenta]

Wish i had your knowledge of scripture sweet friend, that's SO good.

Thank you... and I cannot take credit for the Biblical verses, since it is after all God's revealed written Word, and I use the resources available to us, one of my particular favourites being biblehub... they give the relevant verses when you look up one, there are parallel verses given, too peculiar but so predictable to see the free willers claim they are taken out of context when they are grouped together for a reason, but of course they routinely contradict and deny what is said in the first place, their preference being to throw any artifice they can at the truth trying to discredit what Scripture says, since that suits them fine. Line by line and precept by precept the verses do reveal the truth in a compelling way they willfully wish to ignore and/or throw over in favour of their man-made tradition and vain philosophy.

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Galatians 5 verse 1 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. Romans 6 verse 18 Be careful, however, that your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 1 Corinthians 8 verse 9 Live in freedom, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. 1 Peter 2 verse 16 Though I am free of obligation to anyone, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 1 Corinthians 9 verse 19

 

[PaulThomson]

It appears you don't understand what omnipotence means, however, you can spell it at least.

What my dear, is omnipotent about having will, being able to make choices and the ability to enact will with ease, if it doesn't conflict too much with, or cause trouble for others?

However, if it does cause trouble to others, you won't be allowed to assert your will, hence why it isn't free.

Can I force a prisoner who wants/wills to be freed to stop wanting/willing to be freed? Can I force a person against their will to want/will to drive no faster than 80 km per hour, if they want/will to drive at 150 km/hr on the highway.?

 

[LifelongLearner]

What prevents free will for man?

Man's flesh is fallen flesh.
His fallen flesh possesses the defect we inherited from Adam.

But?
Our soul is not from Adam.
Only our body is.
God creates each and every soul.
The soul from God is not with defect, but becomes distorted by default when our soul is placed in a defective fallen body.

The body's effect upon the soul is like a person getting drunk does things his soul would not want to do.
But while drunk, can't stop doing.

Now? If made sober?
That soul can operate within the realm of its value system.

In other words?
All men are born into a fallen type of drunken state of sinfulness that he can not stop by willing it to stop.

It takes God's grace to sober up that soul.

God's grace *power* enables a soul to be sobered up during predetermined times by God, for making a choice about Christ.
And, even now, for believers, we must remain under the filling of the Spirit as to not walk after the flesh.

Which proves it can be done by grace.
Walking free of the depravity of the flesh by the power of God's grace!




But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may
rest on me." 2 Corinthians 12:9

Grace is God's enabling power to be as God wants us to become.
By God's grace God can bring a person's soul into a state of freedom to make his choice concerning Christ possible.

But, just the same. That state of grace enabling does not guarantee that one will desire to believe in Christ!
That is why the unbeliever will be held accountable for his rejection of God's Son.

Grace and peace ........

Look, this is my final warning or i'm actually going to raise the trolling issue regarding you and your buddies, with CC. i've tried to reason with you lot so many times but you're incapable of reason yourselves, you're like battery operated toys which must be externally turned off.

Doubt you can do anything about the disgust and contempt i feel for you now, just please spout your drivel on your own posts. Hmm, maybe attracting an audience for them might be too problematic for your ilk, which is why you lot poison the posts of people like me.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Can I force a prisoner who wants/wills to be freed to stop wanting/willing to be freed? Can I force a person against their will to want/will to drive no faster than 80 km per hour, if they want/will to drive at 150 km/hr on the highway.?

You are a foolish troll, as i have repeatedly said in reply to idiotic comments from your ilk, choice and will are real. Free will for us isn't true, as there are many constraints preventing us exercising our will at times, so it is limited, not free. The only being who has genuine free will is God.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Has anybody defined free will yet?

I have posted a decent definition many times, however, the plague of trolls spam the post to hide anything reasonable and logical. Which is why i'm so fed up with them, they disgust me.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Thank you... and I cannot take credit for the Biblical verses, since it is after all God's revealed written Word, and I use the resources available to us, one of my particular favourites being biblehub... they give the relevant verses when you look up one, there are parallel verses given, too peculiar but so predictable to see the free willers claim they are taken out of context when they are grouped together for a reason, but of course they routinely contradict and deny what is said in the first place, their preference being to throw any artifice they can at the truth trying to discredit what Scripture says, since that suits them fine. Line by line and precept by precept the verses do reveal the truth in a compelling way they willfully wish to ignore and/or throw over in favour of their man-made tradition and vain philosophy.

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Galatians 5 verse 1 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. Romans 6 verse 18 Be careful, however, that your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 1 Corinthians 8 verse 9 Live in freedom, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. 1 Peter 2 verse 16 Though I am free of obligation to anyone, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 1 Corinthians 9 verse 19

Bless and hugs precious friend, we have much in common, i too refuse to be bullied and silenced, by a gang of trolls and bullies who profess they are Christian.

The evidence for their being Christian is even less evidenced than free will is.

 

[GWH]

Wish i had your knowledge of scripture sweet friend, that's SO good.

Good as far as it goes but it ignores Scripture indicating that God enables all to become believers if they will (Matt. 23:37, Deut. 30:19, 1Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16, Tit. 2:11, etc.).

 

[GWH]

No doubt whatsoever that man has free will.

Adam made wrong choices while he was yet unfallen and perfectly holy. So did the Woman.
Subsequently, Adam made right choices after the fall had taken place. So did the Woman.

Now you do Cain and Abel.

I agree except that A and E were created very good but not perfectly holy.

 

[PaulThomson]

You are a foolish troll, as i have repeatedly said in reply to idiotic comments from your ilk, choice and will are real. Free will for us isn't true, as there are many constraints preventing us exercising our will at times, so it is limited, not free. The only being who has genuine free will is God.

There's a verse in the Bible about a LifelongLearner. 2 Tim 3:7.
Grace and peace.

 

[GWH]

There's a verse in the Bible about a LifelongLearner. 2 Tim 3:7.
Grace and peace.

Yes but also 2Tim. 3:15-17.

 

[LifelongLearner]

There's a verse in the Bible about a LifelongLearner. 2 Tim 3:7.
Grace and peace.

Sadly, my opinion of you is so low, if it wasn't a scripture, i'd avoid it. As regards grace and peace, you can spell the words but don't seem to understand them.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Good as far as it goes but it ignores Scripture indicating that God enables all to become believers if they will (Matt. 23:37, Deut. 30:19, 1Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16, Tit. 2:11, etc.).

Are you silly enough to suggest i don't already know that? i've posted many comments mentioning how God literally pleads with people to turn from evil doing so he won't have to destroy them. Think it's likely there is a small elect group who are more precious to him, which is fair enough but his grace and mercy has a much wider, if less privileged application too.

As i've said previously, i'd rather have the lowest seat in heaven, than the top seat in hell. Why am i not surprised you and your fellow trolls are crawling out of your sewers to disrupt discussion on MY post again? You don't get sympathy from me for yours attracting less interest.

 

[LifelongLearner]

No doubt whatsoever that man has free will.

Adam made wrong choices while he was yet unfallen and perfectly holy. So did the Woman.
Subsequently, Adam made right choices after the fall had taken place. So did the Woman.

Now you do Cain and Abel.

Logical analysis indicates we don't have free will. Enacting will and choice, which we certainly have in certain circumstances, is mistakenly construed as free will.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I agree except that A and E were created very good but not perfectly holy.

Obviously your opinion because such is not stated. What do you mean by perfectly holy?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I have posted a decent definition many times, however, the plague of trolls spam the post to hide anything reasonable and logical. Which is why i'm so fed up with them, they disgust me.

Would you mind posting it again or posting the post#?