Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

I appreciate honesty. Sharing your opinion of me was your honest assessment. Saying I was unbiblical was not.

Wait, what? When you share Bible verses, it is unBiblical? Oh, I get it! Black is white and bad is good.

Really it is just more of the same from the free will crowd.

2 Corinthians 4 verses 5-7 ~ We do not proclaim ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Now we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this surpassingly great power is from God and not from us.

 

[Rufus]

Proverbs 19 verse 21 Jeremiah 10 verse 23b ~ Many plans are in a man’s heart, but the purpose of the LORD will prevail. No one who walks directs his own steps.

Now you've done did it! To FWers' this passage means that the sons of men are but mere puppets on God's strings. But I, for one, LOVE my perfect, good, holy, righteous, gracious, merciful, compassionate and loving "Puppet Master". With Him controlling my life, I have every confidence of where I will be spending eternity, thank to His incomprehensible grace.

 

[Jackson129]

Here's my question to both sides. After the old thread wore out afte 15k plus posts here's the exact same new one. Exact same 20 verses by both sides. One side will say that's not what that verse means the other side will say that's out of context. Its like 2 kids in the back seat going i aint touching you, yes you are, no im not . And on and on.

Does either side here think Jesus is not lord and savior? Or that He was not the son of God? No because it is undeniable un-reproachable biblical fact. Have either side here considered the fact that they are arguing about the same thing others have for 300 years or more. Endlessly back and forth is because what they are talking about IS NOT. Maybe both of your sides have some of it right and some of it wrong.

 

[Magenta]

Now you've done did it! To FWers' this passage means that the sons of men are but mere puppets on God's strings. But I, for one, LOVE my perfect, good, holy, righteous, gracious, merciful, compassionate and loving "Puppet Master". With Him controlling my life, I have every confidence of where I will be spending eternity, thank to His incomprehensible grace.

It is so very odd how much they scream against His sovereignty.

 

[Magenta]

Here's my question to both sides. After the old thread wore out afte 15k plus posts here's the exact same new one. Exact same 20 verses by both sides. One side will say that's not what that verse means the other side will say that's out of context. Its like 2 kids in the back seat going i aint touching you, yes you are, no im not . And on and on.

Does either side here think Jesus is not lord and savior? Or that He was not the son of God? No because it is undeniable un-reproachable biblical fact. Have either side here considered the fact that they are arguing about the same thing others have for 300 years or more. Endlessly back and forth is because what they are talking about IS NOT. Maybe both of your sides have some of it right and some of it wrong.

Eh? There are zero verses articulating that the unregnerated man is free. He is called a slave to sin under the power
and influence of the wicked one taken captive to do the will of the devil. Do you really call that freedom??? Are you
agreeing that he will decide to believe what Scripture says he can neither receive nor comprehend while God's enemy?
That it is foolishness to him and he is said to be opposed to the spiritual things of God. Do you know what opposed means?

 

[studier]

She seems to think that it exposes me as a heretic if I ignore it as written.

Not sure if I showed you this before (see bottom of this post) but consider wearing the "heretic" badge proudly around here considering some of the sources.

Actually, we're all heretics and some of us are just trying to convince others here about choosing.

 

[Jackson129]

Eh? There are zero verses articulating that the unregnerated man is free. He is called a slave to sin under the power
and influence of the wicked one taken captive to do the will of the devil. Do you really call that freedom???

I see the other side post Bible versus as well

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If it be hid, it is hid to those that are lost. At least hid to those who are need understanding.

Lol that’s the crux of it huh😂

 

[Lamar]

Oh, are you pretending to have a dialogue with me now after refusing
to answer multiple posts of mine addressed to you from days ago???

You make astute observations but then refuse to acknowledge that you are part of the problem you observe.

Like making stupid assumptions and jumping to erroneous conclusions and then neglecting to admit any error on your part.

You will insist and I have seen you do it more than once, you insist people answer you if they want to dialogue with you.

Do you answer others? Ha!

As a general rule, I do answer questions directed to me and sometimes even questions directed to others. If I ignored your question, I doubt it was on purpose. Your questions are not that hard.

Sometimes I fail to see your prose sandwiched between your large pictures. If you know the post number of the question I missed I will answer it, if not I will search for it myself.

 

[Magenta]

I see the other side post Bible versus as well

But none say what they claim about the person blinded being free to choose.

Scripture ACTUALLY says that person is incapable of obeying God.

Scripture ACTUALLY says that person is hostile to God.

Scripture ACTUALLY says that person is opposed to the spiritual things God.

Scripture also teaches that it is JESUS Who sets us free.

 

[Rufus]

A bit tough for you to grasp. Understood. I can see your confusion.

Let's try again.

Based upon what God has provided in Christ, man is free to choose to be freed from imprisonment under sin and death.

As I said, Rom8:1 is dealing with this freedom from imprisonment. One of the ways to better understand the word typically translated as "condemnation" there is to know that it's speaking not of the verdict but the results of the verdict. Some translate it as "penal servitude" denoting the imprisonment.

FWIW, you're watching too much news and assimilating the silly arguments stated there. In case you haven't noticed these threads get turned into Calvinistic apologetics pretty quickly. I've read some posts from some who have been here for many years and how they noticed it come about some time ago.

So, I don't have some silly syndrome for noting how your views frequently match the T of TULIP when TULIP has become a topic of a thread and from which you try to distance yourself from for whatever reason. You're free to explain why you disagree and Scripture would help and in fact be welcomed.

In turn, I have no problem if you want to try to classify my beliefs. Being involved in these threads I frequently end up looking at various traditions once again after years away from them, considering how I might compare to them, and FWIW find differences with all of them and similarities in places with a few of them.

Finally, "heretic" is a big word people throw around too lightly. Actually, since I normally trend towards literalness, I'm not opposed to the word or concerned with the baggage it's accumulated over time. Here's why:

The Irony of the Word

The etymological root—“to choose”—highlights a deep irony: a heretic is someone who exercises volition, often in pursuit of truth, but ends up outside the bounds of accepted belief. In that sense, the term reflects both freedom and fracture.​

​

I believe in and value the freedom to choose especially in the pursuit of Truth. I'm not concerned about fracturing from non-truth, in fact in pursuing Truth under Grace it's inevitable to fracture from non-truth.

Your "T" similarity or identicalness - whatever the case may be - IMO is not Truth.

Which would make man's will the effective cause of his own salvation. Man can just walk out of prison any time he desires. Paul got 1Cor 1:30 all wrong, didn't he!? That text should read, "By you're freewill choice you are in Christ Jesus".

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I see the other side post Bible versus as well

They act as if no one does though lol as they are shouting that everyone else denies scripture …..it’s like the Olympic gymnastics begin when they see something they don’t like

 

[studier]

Here's my question to both sides. After the old thread wore out afte 15k plus posts here's the exact same new one. Exact same 20 verses by both sides. One side will say that's not what that verse means the other side will say that's out of context. Its like 2 kids in the back seat going i aint touching you, yes you are, no im not . And on and on.

Does either side here think Jesus is not lord and savior? Or that He was not the son of God? No because it is undeniable un-reproachable biblical fact. Have either side here considered the fact that they are arguing about the same thing others have for 300 years or more. Endlessly back and forth is because what they are talking about IS NOT. Maybe both of your sides have some of it right and some of it wrong.

1st Par. Appreciate the perspective.
2nd Par. No. No. Agree. Yes, and I've stated such a few times. Don't understand. Agree and even think some of it is semantics requiring various types of reasoning to explain.

 

[Jackson129]

But none say what they claim about the person blinded being free to choose.

Scripture ACTUALLY says that person is incapable of obeying God.

Scripture ACTUALLY says that person hostile to God.

Scripture also teaches that it is JESUS Who sets us free.

Ok and im saying when either side post things like do you belive in this verse or is it a lie. Is a nonsense question. I believe the Bible is the the word of God. I may understand stand it differently than you. Disagreement with you is different than not believing the verse you are quoting.

 

[Magenta]

Ok and im saying when either side post things like do you belive in this verse or is it a lie. Is a nonsense question. I believe the Bible is the the word of God. I may understand stand it differently than you. Disagreement with you is different than not believing the verse you are quoting.

Laughable. They outright contradict and deny what Scripture says.

And they have ZERO verses articulating what they believe.

It is a vain man-exalting philosophy/tradition of man.

Then others come along and say Oh I have free will because I chose what
colour of socks to wear today. Which completely misses the point.
They just show they have no idea what the discussion is really about.

 

[Cameron143]

Hey Cameron.

Is Magenta's question on post# 3253 fair and honest?

She seems to think that it exposes me as a heretic if I ignore it as written.

Humor? I wasn't sure you were able to laugh. What would your buddy TULIP say?

 

[Jackson129]

Laughable. They outright contradict and deny what Scripture says.

And they have ZERO verses articulating what they believe.

It is a vain man-exalting philosophy/tradition of man.

Then others com along and say Oh I have free will because I chose what
colour of socks to wear today. Which completely misses the point.

If they have zero verses articulating what they belive why do I see and read thier post with verser trying to articulate what they believe.

 

[Rufus]

1st Par. Appreciate the perspective.
2nd Par. No. No. Agree. Yes, and I've stated such a few times. Don't understand. Agree and even think some of it is semantics requiring various types of reasoning to explain, [including the carnal type which is my finely honed specialty.]

FTFY!

 

[Magenta]

If they have zero verses articulating what they belive why do I see and read thier post with verser trying to articulate what they believe.

Trying is not doing. Get real. Saying man makes choices does not make the
claim that the incurably wicked heart can bring forth the good fruit of faith.

 

[sawdust]

Read the passage. God says He chose Israel.

I do like the nuance though, and agree with it. God did create Israel. And God does recreate those He saves.

But you didn't answer my question and I didn't see the passage to which you are referring.

Did God choose Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to believe in Him or to make a nation?