Mental Illness Lies

[HeIsHere]

Sometime with autism its like growing up very very slowly a 50 year old could finaly reach an emotional lever of a 10 -15 year old and function independently later on in life.

Yes very true, every single person on the spectrum (if they are truly on the spectrum, I say this because diagnosis is not a perfect science in this area) develops uniquely.

 

[HeIsHere]

What is an extreme end of autism?
A person has extremely high GPA?

Autism is not about intelligence.

 

[HeIsHere]

Is this why you can't explain or define what autism is? Because you see bad parents who can't parent?

There you go again, same ole same ole.

 

[Godsgirl1983]

Why would I use a medication when I know that people successfully dealt with it before the medication was made?

I am curious to hear more about this from you.
What you were quoting/replying to was:

Why would you let a child bang there head against the wall and scream all day it there was a medication to help with the behaviour?

dealing with screaming all day with out medication, that I can fathom.
But please tell me more about dealing with head banging before medication was made (or even now with medications on the market)
For an autistic person who is having an uncontrollable meltdown and head banging it can become a seriously dangerous situation. I'd like to hear more about it being successfully dealt with without/before meds.
Thanks.

 

[Daisy2]

This isn't normal either. No one is saying that locking up the child is normal.
What we are discussing is why do we need to give any sort of meds for simple human behavior.

Eli I would love for you to step one day in the lives of a mother with a child with autism. I'm going to be frank the first thing that typically happens is the man leaves. I've seen MANY single mothers over the years with autistic children. Men typically cant take the irritation of the child not listening to them. A woman i knew her husband even gave her an ultimatum. people can always comment on things when they don't have to deal with it themselves saying I could have done it better "if you had just done this he would have acted better" what autistic family member hasn't heard this a 1000 times before? Im an advocate for medicine in children with autism to keep the family together.

 

[HeIsHere]

I am curious to hear more about this from you.
What you were quoting/replying to was:

dealing with screaming all day with out medication, that I can fathom.
But please tell me more about dealing with head banging before medication was made (or even now with medications on the market)
For an autistic person who is having an uncontrollable meltdown and head banging it can become a seriously dangerous situation. I'd like to hear more about it being successfully dealt with without/before meds.
Thanks.

Will do, need to attend to dinner be back.
Agree very dangerous.

 

[Godsgirl1983]

I am curious to hear more about this from you.
What you were quoting/replying to was:

dealing with screaming all day with out medication, that I can fathom.
But please tell me more about dealing with head banging before medication was made (or even now with medications on the market)
For an autistic person who is having an uncontrollable meltdown and head banging it can become a seriously dangerous situation. I'd like to hear more about it being successfully dealt with without/before meds.
Thanks.

Sorry, ran out of edit time, but wanted to dd that I am still reading post between quoting you (@Ceph ) and so if you have already answered I will eventually see it and don't feel you have to answer again (unless you want to)

 

[Ceph]

I am curious to hear more about this from you.
What you were quoting/replying to was:

dealing with screaming all day with out medication, that I can fathom.
But please tell me more about dealing with head banging before medication was made (or even now with medications on the market)
For an autistic person who is having an uncontrollable meltdown and head banging it can become a seriously dangerous situation. I'd like to hear more about it being successfully dealt with without/before meds.
Thanks.

You put your hands on the child and deal with them compassionately; not with force or ferocity.
Let them bang their head against your own soft body until they learn it's a useless cumpulsive habit, and if it's not that easy, find a way to make it fun for them. The goal is to remove all desire for self-harm.
By all means cause them to make you a living example of how they should behave. Message and hug them while manipulating their bodies to be at peace, and I'm sure they'll eventually come into into sanity naturally. Maybe 'different' than most people, but completely functional.

 

[Ceph]

Eli I would love for you to step one day in the lives of a mother with a child with autism. I'm going to be frank the first thing that typically happens is the man leaves. I've seen MANY single mothers over the years with autistic children. Men typically cant take the irritation of the child not listening to them. A woman i knew her husband even gave her an ultimatum. people can always comment on things when they don't have to deal with it themselves saying I could have done it better "if you had just done this he would have acted better" what autistic family member hasn't heard this a 1000 times before? Im an advocate for medicine in children with autism to keep the family together.

If the man leaves, that's his problem.

 

[Ceph]

I myself am someone who grew up being diagnosed with aspergers. I speak from myself that autistic children are edified by appealing to their senses and curiosity, not vocal commands that yeild nothing apparently beneficial to them.
That's not to say you should lead them with a carrot on a stick. They need sincere warmth in touches and emotional communication.
They can sense when a person is 'faking it' and are mindful of how they're neglected; they're quick to draw connections between your emotions and behavior.
But you must take it upon yourself to show them that bad is bad and good is good. Speaking isn't enough, you have to demonstrate.

 

[Daisy2]

I myself am someone who grew up being diagnosed with aspergers. I speak from myself that autistic children are edified by appealing to their senses and curiosity, not vocal commands that yeild nothing apparently beneficial to them.
That's not to say you should lead them with a carrot on a stick. They need sincere warmth in touches and emotional communication.
They can sense when a person is 'faking it' and are mindful of how they're neglected; they're quick to draw connections between your emotions and behavior.
But you must take it upon yourself to show them that bad is bad and good is good. Speaking isn't enough, you have to demonstrate.

Asperger's is different then autism. i couldn't even touch my brother without him pushing when he was younger. empathy nope that didn't even accrue to him until he was in his early 30s. that may have been a good way for you but not someone that is autism. also has it ever accrue to you how hard a head is? your pain is not something that will stop them as they cant understand it at that age.

 

[Ceph]

asperges is different then autism. i couldn't even touch my brother without him pushing when he was younger. empathy nope he that didn't even accrue to him until he was in his early 30s. that may have been a good way for you but not someone that is autism. also has it ever accrue to you how hard a head is? your pain is not something that will stop them as they cant understand it at that age.

I say with sincerity:
I would let them hit their head against me until I cry, and when I start to cry, maybe they will stop to wonder why I'm crying. Maybe from there I could use the situation to lead them somewhere.

Has your brother been hurt by someone else during his childhood? By that I mean, did he have a good reason to know that he was doing wrong from his own experience? You parents may have disciplened him, but I see a way of that causing him to grow cold instead of warm. How often was he touched, played with, and shown real companionship?

 

[Daisy2]

I say with sincerity:
I would let them hit their head against me until I cry, and when I start to cry, maybe they will stop to wonder why I'm crying. Maybe from there I could use the situation to lead them somewhere.

Has your brother been hurt by someone else during his childhood? By that I mean, did he have a good reason to know that he was doing wrong from his own experience? You parents may have disciplened him, but I see a way of that causing him to grow cold instead of warm. How often was he touched, played with, and shown real companionship?

I'm going to say no even crying wont help if there not on the level to understand it yet. As most children with autism he was non verbal for a majority of his youth and picked on by other children. self harm isn't the cause its an outward form of over stimulation caused by noises not willful misbehavior. I think they also have heightened hearing too so noise blocking head phone are often helpful. they cant stay in all day and they cant have their headphone on 24 hrs a day. It gets easier as they age though they can handle more noise. Post 113 describes some of the challenges

 

[Ceph]

I'm going to say no even crying wont help if there not on the level to understand it yet. As most children with autism he was non verbal for a majority of his youth and picked on by other children. self harm isn't the cause its an outward form of over stimulation caused by noises not willful misbehavior. I think they also have heightened hearing too so noise blocking head phone are often helpful. they cant stay in all day and they cant have their headphone on 24 hrs a day. It gets easier as they age though they can handle more noise. Post 113 describes some of the challenges

It's not up to anyone to decide what goes on in another's head. That part is hidden, and purely Gods work.
If he was picked on, and not shown a balance of compassion, it's reasonable to presume that he grew hateful and presumed that all people only have it out for him. I know because I've experienced it firsthand myself; being first positive towards others in my very first years of school, and then growing cold and hateful from the amount of peer pressure and bullying I witnessed, to the point where I could tear a mouse apart in science class and feel nothing.
I halso have hightened hearing, (maybe just had it now from all my work around loud machines), but I don't remember banging myself violently against anything to deal with it. I think I ran around to release my overstimulation. I know I've dealt overstimulation in ways throughout my childhood, and I beleive that one can help condition a child to release such feelings in heather ways than hitting themself. Maybe get them to rock back&forth, or dance it out.
Also a significant thing about this spectrum is that our imaginations are always before our eyes. We 'see' in two places at once. Maybe promt them to have good things in their imagination; show them child-safe cartoons and video games where problems are solved and things end in happiness.

 

[Eli1]

Yes, the child it given a stimulus and the correct response is reinforced, however the reinforcement has to be differential to be effective.

So it a child is non-verbal at four years old, just a as a quick example, the therapist will provide a stimulus to engage the child to make vocalizations and shape the behaviour to the intended goal.

This takes many years and there are long wait lists.

Thank you for explaining this.
So, an 'autistic child' means a 'mute child'? Is that what autism means?

 

[Eli1]

What is being shy, how do you mean that?

Many would regard autism as primarily "communication disorder" although like I said with intensive therapy they definitively can make gains.

Problems with communication does connect to behavioral and social problems

Ah okay, thank you again. I see a definition now.
So autism means when a child is mute and can't speak?

 

[Eli1]

most people think of it as an illness but its defined as a condition and previously you were talking about fake and real. so i was clarifying that it is real not fake.

I agree with you that character traits are real, as well as personality and IQ gifts. But i'm trying to find out WHY would we slap a label and call them "a disease" and then follow it up with some meds.
This is what i'm trying to find out.

 

[Eli1]

Some clinicians believe that behavior can be changed, the brain is malleable at a young age, and new pathways can be made.

Differential reinforcement means that the child does not always receive the positive reinforcement, it cannot be predictable, this keeps the child engaged in the training.

I kind of agree with this but i'm a bit confused on how you structed your sentence.
Are you saying that the child will be more engaged if there is positive reinforcement?

 

[Eli1]

Because the brains are not neuro-typical in the area of communication, behaviour and social skills.

It is typical for children to acquire language because our brains are created to acquire language, when that does not happen naturally there is a problem in the speech language area of the brain.

Autism is not about intelligence.

Okay so this is the 3rd post from you where you're giving me a clear definition of autism.
So, autism means that the children are mute and unable to speak?

 

[Daisy2]

I agree with you that character traits are real, as well as personality and IQ gifts. But i'm trying to find out WHY would we slap a label and call them "a disease" and then follow it up with some meds.
This is what i'm trying to find out.

they don't just follow up with some medication. It keeps them safe until they reach a point to cope. My brother stopped needed them in high school.