Ponder the Parallel...

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Cameron143 said:
You should start with Acts 2:37. This is the work of God that produces life that leads to the response in verse 38.
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You should except the account reveals the Holy Ghost was not yet received in verse 37.
 
Wansvic said:
As revealed in the initial message presented at Pentecost, the giving of the Holy Ghost is promised to those willing to repent and be water baptized in the name of Jesus. The Samaritans received the Holy Ghost days AFTER they obeyed. And. the 12 men of Ephesus received the Holy Ghost AFTER they obeyed.

Acts 2:38-42
"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 8:12-17
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.


Acts 19:2-6
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
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You would do well to learn the difference between the indwelling of the Spirit and the baptism with the Spirit. The Spirit coming upon is not the indwelling of the Spirit, but the promise of the Father.
 
PaulThomson said:
Actually, that is not true. It is the child who secretes a chemical when it is ready to be born that puts the mother into labour.
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Cool, when you think about it. The baby exits the darkness and enters the light at birth, and rebirth.

Unless a man is born again he cannot SEE the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)
 
Cameron143 said:
You would do well to learn the difference between the indwelling of the Spirit and the baptism with the Spirit. The Spirit coming upon is not the indwelling of the Spirit, but the promise of the Father.
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In Acts 1:8, Jesus said the Holy Ghost would come upon his apostles. Acts 2:2-4 records what Jesus meant.The apostles along with others were FILLED when the Holy Ghost came upon them. This reveals the 12 men were actually filled when the Holy Ghost came upon them.

Acts 1:8
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:

Acts 2:2-4
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
 
Cameron143 said:
Refer to previous post.
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All detailed conversion accounts reveal specifics concerning when the indwelling of the Holy Ghost takes place. And Paul's question in Acts 19 makes it clear that receiving the Holy Ghost does not automatically occur upon belief.
 
Cameron143 said:
So...one can please God apart from faith? Or obedience does not please God?
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My response was in answer to your comment that without the Spirit one can not obey. The accounts prove otherwise.

As revealed in the initial message presented at Pentecost, the giving of the Holy Ghost is promised to those willing to repent and be water baptized in the name of Jesus. The Samaritans received the Holy Ghost days AFTER they obeyed. And. the 12 men of Ephesus received the Holy Ghost AFTER they obeyed.
 
I'm amazed that so many don't know that the birthing process begins the impartation of life. Without life, what is being birthed?
 
Cameron143 said:
If there is no life, there is nothing to produce action. How many dead people obey?
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No dead people obey. They cannot. Scripture explicitly articulates that the man of flesh cannot please God, and can neither submit to nor obey God. There are many other proof texts such as, a bad tree cannot produce good fruit, Jesus said it was not possible, and given that there are none good, no not one, and paired with nothing good lives in the flesh, this should inform us that no good thing can come from a person not indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God. However, well we know how people are deceived by philosophical thinking and wool gathering, refusing what Scripture says about the natural/unregenerated man being a lover of darkness and slave to sin refusing to come into the light because he is opposed to the spiritual things of God which he can neither receive nor comprehend since they are understood only through the Spirit. He is blinded to truth, under the power and influence of Satan. But it hardly matters what Scripture says to many of these people because they ignore what the Bible actually says. A person's heart of stone needs to be changed/replaced, and only God can do that.
 
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Cameron143 said:
I'm amazed that so many don't know that the birthing process begins the impartation of life. Without life, what is being birthed?
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"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." 2 Cor 5:17


"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Rom 6:3-6
 
Wansvic said:
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." 2 Cor 5:17


"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Rom 6:3-6
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None of this negates life preceding birth.

If you are going to draw parallels, draw all of them, and not just the ones you believe support your position.
 
Magenta said:
No dead people obey. They cannot. Scripture explicitly articulates that the man of flesh cannot please God, and can neither submit to nor obey God. There are many other proof texts such as, a bad tree cannot produce good fruit, Jesus said it was not possible, and given that there are none good, no not one, and paired with nothing good lives in the flesh, this should inform us that no good thing can come from a person not indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God. However, well we know how people are deceived by philosophical thinking and wool gathering, refusing what Scripture says about the natural/unregenerated man being a lover of darkness and slave to sin refusing to come into the light because he is opposed to the spiritual things of God which he can neither receive nor comprehend since they are understood only through the Spirit. He is blinded to truth, under the power and influence of Satan. But it hardly matters what Scripture says to many of these people because they ignore what the Bible actually says. A person's heart of stone needs to be changed/replaced, and only God can do that.
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Have you considered if what you say were true, those who are dead in sin would not be able to respond to Jesus' initial calling?

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if ANY man hear my voice AND open the door I WILL COME IN TO HIM..." (Rev. 3:20)

This parallels what happened first at Pentecost. Jesus knocked AND the people opened the door through obedience. (Acts 1:2, 2:36-42, Rom. 8:9)
 
Wansvic said:
Have you considered if what you say were true, those who are dead in sin would not be able to respond to Jesus' initial calling?

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if ANY man hear my voice AND open the door I WILL COME IN TO HIM..." (Rev. 3:20)

This parallels what happened first at Pentecost. Jesus knocked AND the people opened the door through obedience. (Acts 1:2, 2:36-42, Rom. 8:9)
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Revelation 3:20 is written to the churches.
 
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Wansvic said:
Have you considered if what you say were true, those who are dead in sin would not be able to respond to Jesus' initial calling?

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if ANY man hear my voice AND open the door I WILL COME IN TO HIM..." (Rev. 3:20)

This parallels what happened first at Pentecost. Jesus knocked AND the people opened the door through obedience. (Acts 1:2, 2:36-42, Rom. 8:9)
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What do you mean, "IF" it is true??? If you do not believe Scripture, that is your problem.

The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. Hello? We are called out of the world. Made alive in Christ. Then we can hear.

Again, Jesus told us why people do not hear. You cannot respond to something you
do not hear nor do people choose to believe what they consider to be foolishness.

John6-44-1-Corinthians2-14-Romans8-7-8.png

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6 verse 44 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 verse 7-8
 
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