Everyone can hope in the Rapture

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jonathanbchristian

jonathanbchristian

Banned
#1
Feb 16, 2011
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#1
If the rapture happens before the great tribulation then Christians do not have to go through it.
If the rapture happens during or after the tribulation, there are alot of survivors of the tribulation.
Obviously if the rapture happens during the tribulation every Christian is not beheaded.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Obviously this verse means that someone Christian will be part of the tribulation.
The question is wheither or not they were saved after the rapture or if the rapture has not happened yet.
Either way the rapture is an escape from the tribulation. Because it is proof that not everyone will suffer the worst of the tribulation. Not every Christian is beheaded for Christ no matter which Rapture you believe in, Pre-trib or Post trib. Because someone is alive and remains to be raptured after those who are dead in Christ.

We either do not go through the tribulation at all. Or we survive every tribulation and get raptured during or after the tribulation. It's hopeful either way.
 
4

4runner

Banned
#2
Jul 3, 2011
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#2
All through scripture Paul tells us that the hope of the believer is the resurrection of the just. the fact that the living are also translated is a side note to the actual hope of being raised from the dead to live forever with Christ

Acts 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

Acts 26
6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers: 7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?



1st Corinthians 15
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(Our hope is the resurrection.)


1st Thess 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Our hope in the resurrection of the just, not the rapture.
 
jonathanbchristian

jonathanbchristian

Banned
#3
Feb 16, 2011
2,957
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#3
What's wrong with having hope in the Rapture? There's not only one topic in the Bible to have hope about. You make it sound like I had to talk about the ressurection. That's not the only thing to hope for and the rapture includes the belief in the ressurection.
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#4
#4
4runner said:
All through scripture Paul tells us that the hope of the believer is the resurrection of the just. the fact that the living are also translated is a side note to the actual hope of being raised from the dead to live forever with Christ

Acts 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

Acts 26
6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers: 7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?



1st Corinthians 15
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(Our hope is the resurrection.)


1st Thess 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Our hope in the resurrection of the just, not the rapture.
Click to expand...
You might want to adjust that, the only just person resurrected that is just is Jesus. Our hope is in Jesus and nothing/noone else. Whether we die and are resurrected or are around for the rapture, our hope, our only way to God is JESUS.
 
4

4runner

Banned
#5
Jul 3, 2011
2,417
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#5
jonathanbchristian said:
What's wrong with having hope in the Rapture? There's not only one topic in the Bible to have hope about. You make it sound like I had to talk about the ressurection. That's not the only thing to hope for and the rapture includes the belief in the ressurection.
Click to expand...
The fact is 99.999999% of all believers will be dead before the return of Christ.

Think about all the believer that have died between the cross and now. then think about all the believers that will die between now and the Tribulation. Then think about all the believers that will be martyred during the Tribulation. then think about how many believer will actually survive the Tribulation.

If you are hoping to be one of those that survive the Tribulation, living until the post trib return of Christ. The chances are you are going to be severely disappointed.

you are welcome to hope for this to be honest i hope for it as well, but biblically speaking the ''Blessed Hope'' which occurs at the return of Christ is the resurrection, not the rapture.

Paul Himself was looking forward to the resurrection, not the rapture.

Philippians 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
 
I

Israel

Guest
#6
#6
jonathanbchristian said:
What's wrong with having hope in the Rapture? There's not only one topic in the Bible to have hope about. You make it sound like I had to talk about the ressurection. That's not the only thing to hope for and the rapture includes the belief in the ressurection.
Click to expand...

Even though I do not believe in a rapture, there's no harm in believing in it. Whatever it takes to keep you on your straight and narrow. Scripture is not subjected to private interpretation. No matter what you or I believe , let God be true and EVERY MAN a liar!


1 Corinthians 13:8-9

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
 
4

4runner

Banned
#7
Jul 3, 2011
2,417
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#7
CanadaNZ said:
You might want to adjust that, the only just person resurrected that is just is Jesus. Our hope is in Jesus and nothing/noone else. Whether we die and are resurrected or are around for the rapture, our hope, our only way to God is JESUS.
Click to expand...
The blessed hope spoken of in Titus is the resurrection of the just.

1st John 3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We will be resurrected into immortal, incorruptible heavenly bodies just like the one Jesus has, this is our hope, and everyone that has this hope purifies himself


Philippians 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

What was Paul hoping to obtain?
 
jonathanbchristian

jonathanbchristian

Banned
#8
Feb 16, 2011
2,957
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#8
4runner said:
The blessed hope spoken of in Titus is the resurrection of the just.

1st John 3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We will be resurrected into immortal, incorruptible heavenly bodies just like the one Jesus has, this is our hope, and everyone that has this hope purifies himself


Philippians 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

What was Paul hoping to obtain?
Click to expand...
Yes, but you are forgeting that the part of the resurrection that we are given our new form is the Rapture. So once again I ask why you have a problem with hope in the Rapture. 1 Corinthians 15:52-53 tells us when we will recieve a new body.
"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
The part you are calling the resurrection is actually part of the Rapture, so I do not see why you disagreed with my post to begin with.
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#9
#9
4runner said:
The blessed hope spoken of in Titus is the resurrection of the just.

1st John 3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We will be resurrected into immortal, incorruptible heavenly bodies just like the one Jesus has, this is our hope, and everyone that has this hope purifies himself


Philippians 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

What was Paul hoping to obtain?
Click to expand...
When Jesus is revealed we will be made pure, we are justified not just.
 
Z

Zilla64007

Banned
#10
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
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#10
Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#11
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#11
jonathanbchristian said:
Either way the rapture is an escape from the tribulation.
Click to expand...
huh?
there is no "rapture".
there's the Second Advent and the "change"/resurrection.

even if there was a rapture as you mean it, it wouldn't be an ESCAPE FROM TRIBULATION.

the "change" or "rapture" or rescue is from GOD'S WRATH, not tribulation.
 
jonathanbchristian

jonathanbchristian

Banned
#14
Feb 16, 2011
2,957
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#14
Maybe You should read the Scripture I quoted, that is the Rapture I am talking about. Pardom me if the word Rapture is not your cup of tea. It's not false doctrine to believe in the Rapture. That's absurd.
 
jonathanbchristian

jonathanbchristian

Banned
#15
Feb 16, 2011
2,957
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#15
Rapture Rapture Rapture Rapture. Zone, doesn't like the Word RAPTURE. Thank God for................theRapture. Pardon me have you ever heard of the................Rapture? Little rapture Big rapture Rapture, Rapture, Rapture.
 
T

Tobby17

Guest
#16
#16
Why don't we let God decide if we will partake in Tribulation or not????..

Which one of you is God?.. Or really knows what he will do??????
 
G

GaryMac

Banned
#17
Sep 9, 2011
455
0
0
#17
jonathanbchristian said:
If the rapture happens before the great tribulation then Christians do not have to go through it.
If the rapture happens during or after the tribulation, there are alot of survivors of the tribulation.
Obviously if the rapture happens during the tribulation every Christian is not beheaded.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Obviously this verse means that someone Christian will be part of the tribulation.
The question is wheither or not they were saved after the rapture or if the rapture has not happened yet.
Either way the rapture is an escape from the tribulation. Because it is proof that not everyone will suffer the worst of the tribulation. Not every Christian is beheaded for Christ no matter which Rapture you believe in, Pre-trib or Post trib. Because someone is alive and remains to be raptured after those who are dead in Christ.

We either do not go through the tribulation at all. Or we survive every tribulation and get raptured during or after the tribulation. It's hopeful either way.
Click to expand...
All who have received Gods Spirit in them are taken out of this world already.
 
4

4runner

Banned
#18
Jul 3, 2011
2,417
5
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#18
jonathanbchristian said:
Yes, but you are forgeting that the part of the resurrection that we are given our new form is the Rapture. So once again I ask why you have a problem with hope in the Rapture. 1 Corinthians 15:52-53 tells us when we will recieve a new body.
"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
The part you are calling the resurrection is actually part of the Rapture, so I do not see why you disagreed with my post to begin with.
Click to expand...
Actually what you cal the rapture is part of the resurrection.

The reason i disagree is because our hope biblically speaking is not the rapture.
 
4

4runner

Banned
#19
Jul 3, 2011
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#19
Originally Posted by 4runner

The blessed hope spoken of in Titus is the resurrection of the just.

1st John 3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3
Originally Posted by 4runner

The blessed hope spoken of in Titus is the resurrection of the just.

1st John 3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We will be resurrected into immortal, incorruptible heavenly bodies just like the one Jesus has, this is our hope, and everyone that has this hope purifies himself


Philippians 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

What was Paul hoping to obtain?

We will be resurrected into immortal, incorruptible heavenly bodies just like the one Jesus has, this is our hope, and everyone that has this hope purifies himself


Philippians 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

What was Paul hoping to obtain?
Click to expand...
CanadaNZ said:
When Jesus is revealed we will be made pure, we are justified not just.
Click to expand...
That is not what the text says, it says....''And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.''

It says what it means and means what it says
 
4

4runner

Banned
#20
Jul 3, 2011
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#20
Originally Posted by 4runner

The fact is 99.999999% of all believers will be dead before the return of Christ.
Click to expand...
zone said:
documentation please?
Click to expand...
Surely you are not so dense as to not understand that most christians are already dead, and most of those that are alive will be dead before Christ returns? Those that live to see the Tribulation will have a very small chance of living through it.
 
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