THE REQUIREMENTS FOR ETERNAL LIFE ACCORDING TO JESUS

[vassal]

How is this not Faith + Works?

You must believe, and you must obey His commands. So if you don't believe, or you don't obey His commands, you are not saved, isn't this what you are saying?

Much love!

Obeying God and doing His will is not a “work” in the way many people use that word.

Jesus said in Gospel of John 6:29, “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” So even faith is called a work, but it is not a work of earning. It is a response to God.

When people speak against “works,” they often mean trying to earn salvation by human effort. But Jesus never taught that obedience is wrong. He said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15). Love leads to obedience. That is not earning. That is relationship.

In Gospel of Matthew 7:21 Jesus said, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Doing the Father’s will is required. Yet it is not a payment for salvation. It is the fruit of a changed heart.

Think of it simply. A tree does not produce fruit to become alive. It produces fruit because it is alive. In the same way, we do not obey to become saved. We obey because we belong to God.

So is obedience a work? Yes, in the simple sense that it is an action. But no, it is not a work of earning or buying salvation. It is the natural result of faith and love.

 

[vassal]

No one has been required to keep all 613 of them and not even Jesus obeyed the laws in regard to giving birth or to having a period. There are many reasons that someone could have for keeping the Law of Moses, sone of which are correct while others are not, so the position that our salvation does not require us to be doer of the Mosaic Law in order to earn it as the result is not the position that our salvation does not require us to be doers of the Law of Moses. Speed limits are and example of a law that people do not have perfect obedience to, but little doesn’t mean that it is not a law.

The Law given through Moses was not a random list of rules. At its heart stand the Ten Commandments. They are like the trunk of a tree. From that trunk came many branches, laws that applied those commandments to daily life in Israel.

For example, the command not to steal grows into laws about honest business. The command not to bear false witness grows into laws about justice and truth in court. The command to honor father and mother grows into laws about family order and care. Many of these flow directly from the moral law written by God.

Some laws were clearly tied to Israel’s civil life as a nation. Others were connected to the temple, sacrifices, purity rituals, and things that pointed forward. Those had a purpose for their time. But the moral foundation, the Ten Commandments, reflects God’s character. They were spoken by God Himself and written on stone. They show what love for God and love for neighbor looks like.

Jesus did not break God’s law. He fulfilled it perfectly. The claim that He did not obey laws about childbirth or a woman’s cycle misunderstands the law itself. Those instructions were given to women in specific situations. Jesus never sinned. He said, “I do always those things that please him” in the Gospel of John 8:29. He also said He did not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it in the Gospel of Matthew 5:17.

Now about salvation. We are not saved by trying to earn righteousness through perfect rule-keeping. But that does not mean obedience no longer matters. Jesus said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” in the Gospel of John 14:15. Obedience is not the price of salvation. It is the fruit of a changed heart.

When someone is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, the law of God is no longer just words on stone. It becomes written on the heart. A person who truly loves God will naturally seek to live in a way that reflects His commandments, especially those moral commands that define sin and righteousness.

So yes, many of the laws that flow from the Ten Commandments can still be lived out today, because they express timeless moral truth. Not as a way to earn life, but as the evidence that God has already given new life within.

 

[JimiSurvivor]

Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law by word and by example and the reason why he established the New Covenant was not in order to nullify anything that he spent his ministry teaching or so that we could continue to have the same lawlessness that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Law of God (Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10).

Hebrews 8:10, referring to the prophesied NEW COVENANT mentioned in Jeremiah 13:33 says:
31 "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord.

(1) The author of Hebrews says the New Covenant will NOT BE LIKE the Old one:
(2) The NC highlights the internalization of God's laws, written on hearts and minds.
(3) It signifies a personal relationship between God and believers, without human intermediaries
(4) It would move beyond external adherence.
(3) It contrasts the old covenant, which was based on a system of intermediaries (the Aaronic Priesthood)
(4) Rather than being based on external laws and rituals it would be planted in the heart, the seat of human motives
(4) The NC would focus on the promise of knowing God intimately
(5) The author of Hebrews also tells us that
(6) The author also tells us that creating a NEW (better) Covenant makes the prior one obsolete [Hebrews 8:10]
(7) This does not mean God nullified the moral law which has existed from the beginning and constitutes God's will for humanity

 

[markss]

Obeying God and doing His will is not a “work” in the way many people use that word.

Jesus said in Gospel of John 6:29, “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” So even faith is called a work, but it is not a work of earning. It is a response to God.

When people speak against “works,” they often mean trying to earn salvation by human effort. But Jesus never taught that obedience is wrong. He said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15). Love leads to obedience. That is not earning. That is relationship.

In Gospel of Matthew 7:21 Jesus said, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Doing the Father’s will is required. Yet it is not a payment for salvation. It is the fruit of a changed heart.

Think of it simply. A tree does not produce fruit to become alive. It produces fruit because it is alive. In the same way, we do not obey to become saved. We obey because we belong to God.

So is obedience a work? Yes, in the simple sense that it is an action. But no, it is not a work of earning or buying salvation. It is the natural result of faith and love.

So then we are in agreement, that works show salvation obtained, but do to contribute to the obtaining of that salvation.

Much love!

 

[markss]

Doing the Father’s will is required.

Required in what sense? If not to obtain salvation, what happens if you do not do the Father's will?

Much love!

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Required in what sense? If not to obtain salvation, what happens if you do not do the Father's will?

Much love!

Wouldn't you know the answer to your question if you obey God yourself?


🕊

 

[markss]

Wouldn't you know the answer to your question if you obey God yourself?


🕊

I'm asking them their answer.

Much love!

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I'm asking them their answer.

Much love!

So.....you won't obey God to find out yourself?


🕊

 

[Luke1813]

Christ came in the flesh.
Christ conquered sin.
Christ conquered death.
Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father.
Where He ever liveth to make intercession on my behalf.
Christ, who is my Salvation, has fulfilled every requirement for my salvation.
Including, granting me the gift of faith to trust that these things are so.

I've trusted in my own works, my own righteousness, and my own understanding enough to know, there is no salvation to be found, apart from faith in Christ.

Its called Good News for a reason.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Christ came in the flesh.
Christ conquered sin.
Christ conquered death.
Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father.
Where He ever liveth to make intercession on my behalf.
Christ, who is my Salvation, has fulfilled every requirement for my salvation.
Including, granting me the gift of faith to trust that these things are so.

I've trusted in my own works, my own righteousness, and my own understanding enough to know, there is no salvation to be found, apart from faith in Christ.

Its called Good News for a reason.

God gave us His Holy Spirit and wrote His laws in our hearts. Obeying Him through the Holy Spirit makes all that God did in our salvation evident.

If we aren't reflecting Jesus in obedience to Him, is His salvation actually at work in us?

It isn't mere head knowledge and agreement in the mind.


🕊

 

[markss]

So.....you won't obey God to find out yourself?


🕊

Complex questions are considered logical fallacies, there's a reason for that.

Posting ignorant pejoratives isn't a good look either.

Did you really have nothing more than just trying to self-affirm by ad hominems? You may do well to examine your motives.

Much love!

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Complex questions are considered logical fallacies, there's a reason for that.

Posting ignorant pejoratives isn't a good look either.

Did you really have nothing more than just trying to self-affirm by ad hominems?

Much love!

So defensive!

Just simply say you don't want to obey God.

 

[Soyeong]

Hebrews 8:10, referring to the prophesied NEW COVENANT mentioned in Jeremiah 13:33 says:
31 "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord.

(1) The author of Hebrews says the New Covenant will NOT BE LIKE the Old one:
(2) The NC highlights the internalization of God's laws, written on hearts and minds.
(3) It signifies a personal relationship between God and believers, without human intermediaries
(4) It would move beyond external adherence.
(3) It contrasts the old covenant, which was based on a system of intermediaries (the Aaronic Priesthood)
(4) Rather than being based on external laws and rituals it would be planted in the heart, the seat of human motives
(4) The NC would focus on the promise of knowing God intimately
(5) The author of Hebrews also tells us that
(6) The author also tells us that creating a NEW (better) Covenant makes the prior one obsolete [Hebrews 8:10]
(7) This does not mean God nullified the moral law which has existed from the beginning and constitutes God's will for humanity

While there are ways that the New Covenant is not like the Mosaic Covenant, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33), so the difference is not in regard to following it. The Mosaic Law has always intended to be on our hearts (Exodus 20:6, Deuteronomy 10:12-16). In Deuteronomy 30, it forms the basis for the New Covenant by prophesying about a time when the Israelites would return from exile, God would circumcise their hearts, and they would return to obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is what Jeremiah 31:33 and Ezekiel 36:26-27 are speaking in regard to.

Morality is based on embodying God's character traits His character traits are the fruits of the Spirit, while sin is what is contrary to God's character traits and sin is the transgression of the Mosaic Law because it was given in order to teach us how to know God intimately through embodying His character traits. The Hebrew word “yada” refers to intimate relationships/knowledge gained by experience, such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God’s way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus by experiencing being in His likeness through embodying His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of His household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Mosaic Law is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus intimately by walking in His way, which is His gift of eternal life.

God's character traits are eternal, so any instructions that God has given for how to know Him by embodying His character traits are eternally and cumulatively valid regardless of which covenant someone is under. For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalm 119:142), therefore all of His righteous laws are also eternal (Psalm 119:160). Being a doer of charity was a way to embody God's righteousness before He made any covenants with man, so it is an eternally valid way to know God. Sin was in the world before the law was given (Romans 5:13), so there were no actions that became righteous or unrighteous when the law was given, but rather it revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that.

New Covenants do not nullify the promises of covenants that have already been ratified, so God's covenants are eternal and cumulatively valid. The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be replaced by the New Covenant is if it is cumulative with it. One thing can only make another thing obsolete to the extent that it has cumulative functionality, so a computer makes a typewriter obsolete but does not make a plow obsolete, which means that if the New Covenant involved doing something different that was not cumulative with the Mosaic Covenant, then it could not make it obsolete. Rather, the New Covenant is made with the same God with the same character traits and therefore the same eternal and cumulatively valid instructions for how to know Him through embodying His character traits, so it still involves following the Mosaic Law (Hebrews 8:10) plus it is cumulatively based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6).

 

[markss]

So defensive!

Just simply say you don't want to obey God.

I guess that's all you've got.

That's too bad!

Ephesians 4:1-3 KJV
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Much love!

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I guess that's all you've got.

That's too bad!

Ephesians 4:1-3 KJV
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Much love!

Says the person who won't obey Jesus....

God isn't fooled.


🕊

 

[rogerg]

2) The NC highlights the internalization of God's laws, written on hearts and minds.

I would respectfully suggest that it would be impossible for the laws internalized upon the heart under the NC to be the laws of the OC just residing in a new location. The reason for this I believe is that the laws of the NC are the means by which the objective of the NC was achieved. So, they cannot work against nor be contrary to it, otherwise, there would be an irreconcilable contradiction between means and objective. We are informed in Heb 8:12 and 10:17, the objective of the NC (for those whom God places under the NC), is their sins and iniquities He will remember no more. It would be impossible for OC law to achieve that because it leads to judgment not life. In addition, we are also informed in Heb 7:12, that the laws of the NC, would be changed from the OC laws, however, a transference of location does not make those laws new.

[Heb 8:12 KJV] 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

[Heb 10:17 KJV] 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

[Heb 7:12 KJV] 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

 

[markss]

Says the person who won't obey Jesus....

God isn't fooled.


🕊

So you say. Your words reveal you, not me. This is your presumption, displayed for all.

Much love!

 

[Soyeong]

Christ came in the flesh.
Christ conquered sin.
Christ conquered death.
Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father.
Where He ever liveth to make intercession on my behalf.
Christ, who is my Salvation, has fulfilled every requirement for my salvation.
Including, granting me the gift of faith to trust that these things are so.

I've trusted in my own works, my own righteousness, and my own understanding enough to know, there is no salvation to be found, apart from faith in Christ.

Its called Good News for a reason.

God did not give His law in order to teach us how to trust in our own works, our own righteousness, and our own understanding, but rather He gave in in order to teach us how to trust in His works, His righteousness, and His understanding. You can't claim credit for the works that God has instructed, but rather your works are the ones that you do independently of anything that God has instructed. God is trustworthy, therefore His instructions are also trustworthy (Psalm 19:7), so the way to trust in God for salvation is by obediently trusting in His instructions and it would be contradictory to think that we should trust in God for salvation instead of trusting in His instructions. Likewise, it would be contradictory to think that we should have faith in God's Word made flesh for salvation instead of obediently having faith in God's Word. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of the Law of God (1 John 3:4), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of it His is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it, which is the way that our salvation is found in him through faith, and this is indeed very Good News. If someone were to teach you to how to follow a set of instructions that are accurately described in the following verses, then wouldn't you find that to be Good News?:

Psalm 19:7-11
7 The law of the Lord is perfect,
reviving the soul;
the testimony of the Lord is sure,
making wise the simple;
8 the precepts of the Lord are right,
rejoicing the heart;
the commandment of the Lord is pure,
enlightening the eyes;
9 the fear of the Lord is clean,
enduring forever;
the rules of the Lord are true,
and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold,
even much fine gold;
sweeter also than honey
and drippings of the honeycomb.
11 Moreover, by them is your servant warned;
in keeping them there is great reward.

If someone were to remove the content of your gift of salvation by follow these instructions on your behalf instead of teaching you to experience following them, then wouldn't you consider that to be Bad News?

 

[vassal]

Required in what sense? If not to obtain salvation, what happens if you do not do the Father's will?

Much love!

It is required in the sense that Jesus Himself connects doing the Father’s will with entering the kingdom. He said, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father” in the Gospel of Matthew 7:21.

So it is not about earning salvation like wages. It is about whether our faith is real. If someone refuses to do the Father’s will, Jesus says they will not enter the kingdom. He also said, “Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” in the Gospel of Luke 6:46.

If a person does not do the Father’s will, it shows they are rejecting His authority. And Jesus makes it clear that those who reject His words will be judged by them (John 12:48).

So obedience is not payment for salvation, but without it, a person shows they are not truly submitting to Christ.

 

[markss]

I would respectfully suggest that it would be impossible for the laws internalized upon the heart under the NC to be the laws of the OC just residing in a new location. The reason for this I believe is that the laws of the NC are the means by which the objective of the NC was achieved. So, they cannot work against nor be contrary to it, otherwise, there would be an irreconcilable contradiction between means and objective. We are informed in Heb 8:12 and 10:17, the objective of the NC (for those whom God places under the NC), is their sins and iniquities He will remember no more. It would be impossible for OC law to achieve that because it leads to judgment not life. In addition, we are also informed in Heb 7:12, that the laws of the NC, would be changed from the OC laws, however, a transference of location does not make those laws new.

[Heb 8:12 KJV] 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

[Heb 10:17 KJV] 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

[Heb 7:12 KJV] 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

This is answered simply in saying that if the Law could have made men righteous, Jesus wouldn't have had to die. He did have to die, because the Law cannot make men righteous, neither then nor now.

Much love!