The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[Mem]

This verse is telling us we need to die to self and sin, not live in it.

Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments. John14:12 faith establishes the law of God, not deletes it Rom3:31. Not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter into the gates of heaven, we need to die of our own selfish desires and live for Christ. Why would someone in Christ want to worship other gods, or vain His name or steal or break the least of these commandments, the opposite of what Christ taught Mat5:19-30

Really? Who are you talking to, an imaginary ghost writer? Where did you read that I wrote saying even remotely close to "we must live in sin."?

 

[FlyingDove]

Not at all. What I write here is about the words of Christ — that is the main focus of everything I post. I do not need or want people to agree with me personally, but with what Christ Himself said. As for the Sabbath, it is part of the Ten Commandments and is at the very heart of the covenant — it cannot be separated from it.

Personally I simply obey Christ and do what He asks of us, which is to keep His commandments:

If you love Me, keep My commandments. (John 14:15)

And just so you know — I am not SDA or part of any denomination or religious movement. I follow Christ and Christ alone. No system, no institution, no man-made tradition. Just Him.

Sabbath Day Ordinances: Who Were They Given To? The Audience Is Explicit: ""The Children of Israel.""

Num 15:17–18, Every Sabbath ordinance in this chapter is addressed exclusively to Israel, not to Gentiles, not to the nations, not to the church. The text repeats this identity marker so no one can universalize it.
(NOTE: These commands were given only to the children of Israel. No other nation was ever placed under these Sabbath ordinances.)

Num 15:26, Forgiveness under the Mosaic system was covenant‑bound. A sojourner (temporary resident) was required to obey Israel's laws only because he lived under Israel's jurisdiction, not because the Law was universal.

Num 15:32 While the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the sabbath day.
(NOTE: The text does not explain why he gathered sticks—cooking, warmth, fire-because the reason doesn't matter. Any work on the Sabbath was forbidden & carried the death penalty.)

The Process: Vs33 - Israel brings the man to Moses and Aaron. Vs34 - He is held in custody (ward) because the penalty had not yet been revealed.

Vs35 - The LORD declares the sentence: death by stoning. Vs36 - The entire congregation stones him as the LORD commanded.

If the Sabbath is binding today, then so is the penalty. Would any Sabbath‑keeper today stone a brother or sister in Christ for picking up sticks after sunset on Friday? If not, then they do not keep the Sabbath God commanded-they keep a modern, softened, man‑made version & THEY ALL DESERVE TO DIE!

Ex 20:10 No work allowed (except priests). Penalty for breaking > DEATH.

The Death Penalty Is Repeated in the Law. Ex 31:14-15 & Ex 35:2

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Every Sabbath command is tied to Israel & every violation carries the death penalty. If someone insists the Sabbath is binding today, they must also insist the penalty is binding today or admit they are not keeping the biblical Sabbath at all.

The Fire Prohibition: No Kindling, No Exceptions
Ex 35:3 “You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the sabbath day.”
(NOTE: No fire meant: No cooking, No heating, They couldn't even lite a lamp.)

vassel, Do you drive to your place of worship on the Sabbath? If so, you violate Exodus 35:3 every time your engine ignites-because internal combustion is literally the burning of fuel.

Modern Sabbath‑keeping collapses under its own weight because no one today keeps the Sabbath God commanded.

If someone insists the Sabbath is binding today, they must answer: Do you stone Sabbath‑breakers? Do you forbid all fire, including engines? Do you enforce the death penalty? Do you keep every ordinance exactly as written? Do you place yourself under the covenant God made with Israel only? If not, then you are not keeping the biblical Sabbath-you are keeping a modern reinterpretation that Moses, the prophets never commanded.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Really? Who are you talking to, an imaginary ghost writer? Where did you read that I wrote saying even remotely close to "we must live in sin."?

The Biblical definition of sin is breaking the law of God.

1 John3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Any of the Ten Commandments - breaking one we break them all.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

You quoted Scripture that says we are to die of self/sin which would mean we are not breaking the law of God because this is what sin is, if we are allowing the Bible to define it, which is the only definition that matters. At every turn you seem to be advocating we do not have to keep the law of God, otherwise we would not be debating it. You seem to indicate that obeying what God asks is “work” therefore we should not do it, but there is no Scripture that says this. Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments. Do you think those who disobey God and not love Him is the fruit of a saved person?

 

[TMS]

Jesus has already saved us from sin and death, done deal.

If it is a done deal, why is there a need for a judgement.

Will we all stand before the judgement set of God?

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

How does God determine who is saved and who is not saved?

The death of Christ meant that His blood was able to be given for the saved.

We can be saved or lost

Deal for each person is not done until the judgement is done.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

[TMS]

Sabbath Day Ordinances: Who Were They Given To? The Audience Is Explicit: ""The Children of Israel.""

Gen 2:1-3
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

No Jews or sin or separation.

The Day was made for mankind.
Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

 

[FlyingDove]

Gen 2:1-3
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

No Jews or sin or separation.

The Day was made for mankind.
Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Gen 2 records God's rest, not a Sabbath command for mankind. No one -Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob-kept the Sabbath for 2,500 years because no Sabbath law existed until God gave it to Israel in Ex 16–20.

Mark 2:27 does not universalize the Sabbath. Jesus is correcting Pharisees about how Israel should keep the Sabbath under the Law.

The only passage that defines who the Sabbath belongs to is Ex 31:16–17 & it says the Sabbath is the covenant sign between God & the children of Israel, not the nations.

If the Sabbath is universal, show where Jesus ever commanded Gentiles to keep it, or where the New Testament places the church under the Sabbath law. Until then, Genesis 2 is not a command, Mark 2 is not a covenant & the Sabbath command remains what Scripture says it is: the sign of the Mosaic covenant with Israel alone.

 

[TMS]

Sabbath Day Ordinances: Who Were They Given To? The Audience Is Explicit: ""The Children of Israel.""

Num 15:17–18, Every Sabbath ordinance in this chapter is addressed exclusively to Israel, not to Gentiles, not to the nations, not to the church. The text repeats this identity marker so no one can universalize it.
(NOTE: These commands were given only to the children of Israel. No other nation was ever placed under these Sabbath ordinances.)

Num 15:26, Forgiveness under the Mosaic system was covenant‑bound. A sojourner (temporary resident) was required to obey Israel's laws only because he lived under Israel's jurisdiction, not because the Law was universal.

Num 15:32 While the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the sabbath day.
(NOTE: The text does not explain why he gathered sticks—cooking, warmth, fire-because the reason doesn't matter. Any work on the Sabbath was forbidden & carried the death penalty.)

The Process: Vs33 - Israel brings the man to Moses and Aaron. Vs34 - He is held in custody (ward) because the penalty had not yet been revealed.

Vs35 - The LORD declares the sentence: death by stoning. Vs36 - The entire congregation stones him as the LORD commanded.

If the Sabbath is binding today, then so is the penalty. Would any Sabbath‑keeper today stone a brother or sister in Christ for picking up sticks after sunset on Friday? If not, then they do not keep the Sabbath God commanded-they keep a modern, softened, man‑made version & THEY ALL DESERVE TO DIE!

Ex 20:10 No work allowed (except priests). Penalty for breaking > DEATH.

The Death Penalty Is Repeated in the Law. Ex 31:14-15 & Ex 35:2

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Every Sabbath command is tied to Israel & every violation carries the death penalty. If someone insists the Sabbath is binding today, they must also insist the penalty is binding today or admit they are not keeping the biblical Sabbath at all.

The Fire Prohibition: No Kindling, No Exceptions
Ex 35:3 “You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the sabbath day.”
(NOTE: No fire meant: No cooking, No heating, They couldn't even lite a lamp.)

vassel, Do you drive to your place of worship on the Sabbath? If so, you violate Exodus 35:3 every time your engine ignites-because internal combustion is literally the burning of fuel.

Modern Sabbath‑keeping collapses under its own weight because no one today keeps the Sabbath God commanded.

If someone insists the Sabbath is binding today, they must answer: Do you stone Sabbath‑breakers? Do you forbid all fire, including engines? Do you enforce the death penalty? Do you keep every ordinance exactly as written? Do you place yourself under the covenant God made with Israel only? If not, then you are not keeping the biblical Sabbath-you are keeping a modern reinterpretation that Moses, the prophets never commanded.

Is there a law that God wants us to obey today?

God is not lawless
The laws protect us from sin. Sin = the transgression of the law

So by giving us laws that define sin we can understand and avoid sin.

Sin has been here since the fall in heaven and Adam has passed on to us the fallen nature.

Which law was defining Sin in the days of Adam and in Noah's day and in Abraham's day and in Moses day and David's day and in Jesus's day and which law is defining Sin today.

Does God have a double standard. ?

Was it a sin for Cain to kill Abel but not a sin for us today.?

Was it a sin for those before the flood and not a sin today?

Was the sabbath blessed and made holy for Adam and not for Abraham but was for David and Jesus but not for you and me. That is confusing and inconsistant. My God and saviour is just and orderly.

Does God change what sin is and isn't?

Christ's justifying righteousness is only given to those that repent.

You will not repent if you do not believe it is a sin.

Sin is the transgression of the law.

1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

There was a law law defining Sin from the start and the law that defines sin today is the same..

The broad application of the 10 commandments. The magnified 10 commandments

All the sins fit into one of the 10 commandments.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

 

[TruthDefender]

Not collecting or harvesting, eating because they were hungry, the idea that not eating on the Sabbath is a sin, does not come from Scripture. The idea that God is not a God of love, picking an apple from the garden or heads of grain because that's all available because someone is hungry as not allowed, may not have a good understanding of the character of God.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.

Why Jesus said they were guiltless, because it wasn't a sin, it was a false accusation

Mat 12:7 But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.

Aah, you can argue with God! I’m just quoting what He said.

 

[TruthDefender]

Or perhaps, maybe one doesn;t understand the law of God going from tablets of stone, to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 God keeping His promise not to change the words Psa 89:34 because you can't make something perfect, more perfect Psa 19:7 or something God made holy more holy Rom7:12 perhaps its us that needs to change our understanding and not God's laws that needs to change. Its always been the harden heart of man that's been the issue, not God's laws.

Yes, hardened heart! May He soften your heart.

 

[TruthDefender]

If a new covenant is to be written today, do you have to make everything in the old void. Do you need to abolish all the principles and laws in the old and not use them in the new??

True there are changes between the old and new but you presume that the perfect moral law can not be part of the new just because they were part of the Old.

The moral laws about lying and stealing are still very relevant today and they were part of the Old.

The blood offering ceased because Jesus is the Lamb. He is the sacrifice that they all pointed to.

But the moral laws have not ceased.. they are not replaced by Jesus. We are encouraged to live like Jesus.

Rom 6:6-18
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

We should not serve sin.... let not sin reign in you....

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Obedience unto righteousness..
Obey what? Which laws?

Morality is in both, it’s the Old Law, 613 or something that you find in probably Leviticus, laws on offerings, Passach, festivals, etc. All of these are part of the OC, yes? These things we don’t do anymore.

Whatever the new tells us to do, we do.

 

[TruthDefender]

If a new covenant is to be written today, do you have to make everything in the old void. Do you need to abolish all the principles and laws in the old and not use them in the new??

True there are changes between the old and new but you presume that the perfect moral law can not be part of the new just because they were part of the Old.

The moral laws about lying and stealing are still very relevant today and they were part of the Old.

The blood offering ceased because Jesus is the Lamb. He is the sacrifice that they all pointed to.

But the moral laws have not ceased.. they are not replaced by Jesus. We are encouraged to live like Jesus.

Rom 6:6-18
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

We should not serve sin.... let not sin reign in you....

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Obedience unto righteousness..
Obey what? Which laws?

-"For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law."
Hebrews 7:12 NKJV

"For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God."
Hebrews 7:18-19 NKJV

-"by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant."
Hebrews 7:22 NKJV

 

[TruthDefender]

You can only have True shalom shalom in Jesus.

 

[Mem]

Do you think those who disobey God and not love Him is the fruit of a saved person?

Going by your definition of love, you love a traffic light.

 

[TMS]

Morality is in both, it’s the Old Law, 613 or something that you find in probably Leviticus, laws on offerings, Passach, festivals, etc. All of these are part of the OC, yes? These things we don’t do anymore.

Whatever the new tells us to do, we do.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

My Laws

GODS LAWS.
what laws?

 

[TMS]

-"For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law."
Hebrews 7:12 NKJV

"For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God."
Hebrews 7:18-19 NKJV

-"by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant."
Hebrews 7:22 NKJV

In the context of the Old cerimonial laws, the laws that were a shadow, Jesus's blood is so much better.

In the context of the perfect moral laws, Jesus obeyed them and reflected them.
He did not change or replace them.

Mat 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

 

[JayWalker]

The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

Yeah, I've run in to some people who think they can earn their salvation by keeping the Ten Commandments

We won't have to deal with these people for very long as nobody can earn their way in to the Kingdom of God.

 

[TMS]

Love for Jesus = Hate of sin.

Sin = death and suffering
Sin = separation from God.

You hate sin because it hurts God, it hurts other people, it hurts yourself and it cause separation from God.

Sin is the transgression of the law.

To not sin is to obey the law.

God loves sinners and died for sinners but this mercy and Grace is not an excuse to make the law void or continue in sin.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[JayWalker]

To not sin is to obey the law.

You trying to keep the old covenant law, the law of Moses instead of the Doctrine of Christ?

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[Inquisitor]

The Biblical definition of sin is breaking the law of God.

1 John3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Any of the Ten Commandments - breaking one we break them all.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

You quoted Scripture that says we are to die of self/sin which would mean we are not breaking the law of God because this is what sin is, if we are allowing the Bible to define it, which is the only definition that matters. At every turn you seem to be advocating we do not have to keep the law of God, otherwise we would not be debating it. You seem to indicate that obeying what God asks is “work” therefore we should not do it, but there is no Scripture that says this. Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments. Do you think those who disobey God and not love Him is the fruit of a saved person?

The Gentiles were never under the law.

 

[Inquisitor]

Love for Jesus = Hate of sin.

Sin = death and suffering
Sin = separation from God.

You hate sin because it hurts God, it hurts other people, it hurts yourself and it cause separation from God.

Sin is the transgression of the law.

To not sin is to obey the law.

God loves sinners and died for sinners but this mercy and Grace is not an excuse to make the law void or continue in sin.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Gentiles were never in covenant to obey the law.