Right because without works is dead. Works complete faith to make it salvific. You say the exact same thing i do but you have "faith Alone" in your head so you dont even pay attention to what your saying.
No living faith without works
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I don’t say the exact same thing as you at all. Would you please post one verse that says that works make faith salvific?
That conclusion is reached through deduction. My brain doesn't stop working because I'm a Christian.
Faith without works is dead.
A dead faith cannot be salvific unless you can show otherwise.
Therefore if faith without works can't be salvific, faith apart or alone cannot be enough, sufficient to be salvific.
Therefore works make faith alive and by deduction, salvific.
No. You’re treating works like an ingredient of salvation, but James treats them like a product of living faith. Fruit doesn’t make the tree alive. It proves the tree is alive.
It is since since Jesus said, Not everyone who says to me, Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but only the one who does (verb) the will of my heavenly Father. We aren't fruit trees. Fruit trees don't have a choice but to produce the fruit they do. We have to choose to do good works. If faith produced good works there would be no need for Judgement but there will be judgement. Matt 25:31-46. Who inherits the kingdom? Faith isn't mentioned anywhere but you know what it is mentioned? Of course you do. Faith without works is dead.
The passages you’re quoting describe the evidence examined at judgment, not the basis of salvation. Scripture repeatedly says justification is by faith apart from works. The works show whether the faith was real.
What is the will of the Father? John 6:40.
And when you say faith isn’t mentioned in the sheep and goats passage, that doesn’t mean faith isn’t the reason they belong to Christ. Jesus is describing the visible evidence of who truly belongs to Him. The sheep act like His people because they are His people.
The rest of the New Testament is explicit that works are not what justify a person. For example Rom 3:28 says a person is justified by faith apart from works, and Eph 2:8-10 says we are saved by grace through faith, not by works, and then immediately says we are created for good works afterward.
It works like this: Without the Spirit there is no transformed life and no good works. Faith leads to salvation. Salvation brings the Spirit. The Spirit transforms the life, and that transformed life produces good works.
I agree with you. However, I believe there is an important consideration not stated. Christianity and thus salvation is of the whole person heart, soul, mouth, hands, feet, knees etc. Where that puggy Monk took us down a rabbit hole was by declaring a separation between the mind (soul) and the body. "We are saved by faith through grace" was true then and remains so today. It fails in the definition of terms. Faith is only a component of our mind and one that must include the entire rest of our selves. Faith is and can only be expressed by what you do. In my opinion there is no valid definition of a claim of saving faith that is no fully embodied in our full selves. 21st century Christianity has effective redefined faith as mere belief. Do you believe in certain statements? Do you believe in certain dogmas? Do you agree that faith is independent of love? Thus we can happily sit in our air conditioned concrete cathedrals for 60 minutes every now and then because our "faith" give us a free ticket to heaven. Thus we sit with "converted minds" but bodies that belong to us fully believing that God has no claim over my mouth, hands, feet and wallet. We have no cross to take up daily (works), no call to the sick, homeless, widow, orphan, the stranger or the prisoner......"that is the government's job, right?
God has always wanted us to do good works. We do those works regularly in theory, but often fail through our nature, which is a sin. That makes us sinners, and the wage of sin is death...
In the Old Testament that death was passed on to an animal that was sacrificed, then God, not liking the "sin, sacrifice, sin again" cycle, sent His son to be the sufficient, sacrificed lamb for one and all, should they believe in Him. Not just believing in His existence, even the demons do that, and shudder. They know what's coming next!
That faith will involve giving ourselves to the Lord and living as He wishes to the best of our abilities, works will inevitably be a part of this and will be seen, the same way our words display what's in our hearts.
That's what saves, Jesus and faith in Him. That faith is shown with works, but the works themselves can't save as we've failed, fallen short of perfection and are sinners. God did it and we're recipients. He saved us and still wants us to do good, even though we fail. It's right to do good. It's just that we failed to do it all the time and thankfully accept a saviour in Jesus.
Incorrect. It's quite clear those who inherit the kingdom are the ones who feed the hungry, give drink.tk.thr thirsty, clothes the naked..... I can read I don't need you or your pastors telling me what the words "really" mean. You people do that all the time.
Cause – the thing that actually produces or brings about a result.
Evidence – the outward sign that shows the result is real.
Example:
Smoke is evidence of fire, but smoke does not cause the fire.
In the same way, the New Testament says:
Faith in Christ is the cause/instrument of justification (Romans 3:28).
Good works are the evidence that someone truly belongs to Christ (Ephesians 2:10, James 2:17).
So when Jesus describes the sheep feeding the hungry in Matthew 25, those actions reveal who His people are. They are not the thing that earns them the kingdom.
That’s why Jesus also says in John 6:40:
“Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life.”
And quote as you’ve said before in post 194:
For someone who doesn’t “interpret”(to explain, understand, or assign meaning to something), how do you know what any of the scriptures you post mean? You’ve already stated that you don’t understand scripture.
I actually understand the meaning of words like sufficient. If faith alone was enough (sufficient) there wouldn't be need for evidence of faith. You don't even listen to yourself so I can't expect you to listen to or understand me.
No one can understand you. You obviously don’t know the difference from having faith alone and being saved by faith alone. We are saved by faith alone. We are saved only by our faith. And again there is no need for evidence. Our hearts are enough evidence for God. That’s all he needs to see. You can’t prove anything to God that He doesn’t already know.
You say you don’t interpret scripture but yet you say you come to the conclusion that works make faith salvific by deduction. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that. What do you not understand by these verses?
Ephesians 2:8–9 — “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; not by works, so that no one can boast.”
Romans 3:28 — “For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.”
Titus 3:5 — “…not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us.”
And yes “by faith apart from works” means by faith alone. We are saved by grace through our faith. Our works do not contribute to our salvation. It doesn’t mean that we don’t have works. It just means those works don’t contribute.
Lol, You can see then that a man is justified by works and not faith alone. No where does scripture say faith alone saves us. The thing is the "faith" that you like to claim alone saves you, has to be a faith completed by works just like James says. Paul even encourages works
All James is saying is that a man can be shown to be justified by works. Afterall, it is God who justifies, and not the man who performs works.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
“For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.”
Romans 3:28 ESV
“he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,”
Titus 3:5 ESV
“yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.”
Galatians 2:16 ESV
Why does it need to be "shown" if faith is all that's necessary to be saved? God can't see your faith? James says exactly the opposite. In verse 22 of chapter 2 james in reference to Abraham says, thus you can see that his ( Abraham) Faith and his (Abraham) works were active together and his faith was brought to completion. If faith alone is sufficient why mention works completing faith.
Then in verse 24 james says a man is justified by works.... Why not say God justifies man in his works?
Again faith completed by works.
Again works of the law not works. Paul mentions works all over the place. Bolding one half of Paul words doesn't mean or change anything.
It's not about needing to be shown. James emphasis in his letter is simply that works follow salvation, and that an individual who doesn't have works may not have been created in Christ Jesus unto good works. By requiring works for salvation, you make the individual co-justifier with God. He is not. His works testify to the work of God in justifying him.
Paul consistently teaches that salvation is by faith alone, apart from works of any kind. When he says “works of the law,” he means the ceremonial or legalistic works that some were trying to rely on for righteousness, not the good works that naturally flow from faith. Faith is never “completed by works” in the sense that works earn salvation. James 2 shows that works demonstrate that faith is real, they don’t produce justification. Abraham was justified by faith (Romans 4:3), and his works proved that faith was genuine. In other words, works are the evidence of salvation, not the cause. Paul mentions works all over the place, but he consistently separates them from justification. Works follow salvation, they do not make it happen.