Are You Rapture Ready?

[Lovette]

...and yet you have the dead in christ raised AFTER the Rev 14:14 gathering.

You really do not realize the Rev 14:14 gathering is a separate coming??????

Huh????

Oh wait....you guys claim that there is only one coming, correct?

So Rev 14:14, is actually 2 witnesses against your made up beliefs.

You really do not realize that in Rev. 14:14 "the One sat on the cloud" remained sitting on the cloud, not "coming" until Rev. 19?

 

[Lovette]

Tie it in genius.
Tie in firstfruits to the resurrection.

You are busy holding a dog tail in your hand, not knowing it is connected to a dog, then asking people to define what a tail is.

Conecct YOUR BOO BOO to the subject.

Show us how the first resurrection DOES NOT INCLUSE JESUS AS THE FIRSTFRUITS OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION.

Jesus as FIRSTFRUITS, DEPICTS a multi part harvest.

YOUR BOO BOO that you are dancing around, is embarrassing.

Remember ....it is you that said firstfruits is wrapped up in the 144,000.

( which is a totally separate firstfriuts of ethnic Jews)

Your ignorance of the distinction between the SHEAF of firstfruits and the HARVEST of firstfruits is embarrassing. I posted biblical definition of the two, you've got nothing but a temper tantrum.

 

[Lovette]

Half the world is swept away before the flood? One taken, one left behind?
(Wicked preflood rapture)

You're the one who's been hammering me with Matt. 24:40-41, you explain it to me. It's obvious to everyone who "them" that are "taken" in Matt. 24:38-39 are, except you.

 

[Lovette]

Not at all. Abraham pointe out the nature of God prior to Sodom when.

Genesis 18, 25Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

The thing to notice about God's wrath it is death. We don't suffer the wrath of God, eternal death. The flood God killed the wicked. When his wrath fell on Jerusalem the Babylonian's killed the Jews. However, God works in conjunction his wrath in clear cases also will come with tribulation. So some wrath is final some has tribulation in it.

Romans 2, 8but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the [c]Greek;

Now tribulation it means to be hemmed in stuck in a narrow space. In modern times what we would call stuck between a rock and a hard place. What comes with that a decision how to get out of that place.

Not unlike a good number of us in the body of Christ our personal testimony is one of how we hit rock bottom before we came to the Lord.

So we can see examples of God's wrath him being provoked by Israel some died but others stuck in a place of tribulation turned back to God. The Judges and the back and forth of Israel. The golden calf some died others repented. Fall of Jerusalem some died and others led away to which Daniel and his writings come to us. So wrath and tribulation can and do work hand in hand and both present together throughout the bible.

In Luke Christ says it will be like the days of Noah and Lot. They are distinctive and how God kept each away from partaking of his wrath.


2Peter 2, 5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

God saved Noah saved is phulassó: save, watch over set a guard over.

5442 phylássō (akin to 5441 /phýlaks, "a military guard") – properly, preserve by "having an eye on" (J. Thayer), referring to the uninterrupted vigilance shepherds show in keeping their flocks (see Lk 2:8, used with 5438 /phylakḗ, "a military guard," i.e. exercising unbroken vigilance as a military guard).

5442 /phylássō ("keep watch over, keep secure") emphasizes the needed vigilance to keep what is entrusted. Thus 5442 (phylássō) is often used in the NT in the Greek middle voice meaning, "Personally be on guard against," stressing the constant, personal interest involved with the guarding.

Strong's Greek: 5442. φυλάσσω (phulassó) -- To guard, to keep, to watch over, to protect, to observe

Verses 6-7
6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

Delivered is rhuomai: deliver, rescue, save.
4506 rhýomai (from eryō, "draw to oneself") – properly, draw (pull) to oneself; to rescue ("snatch up"); to draw or rescue a person to and for the deliverer.

Strong's Greek: 4506. ῥύομαι (rhuomai) -- To rescue, deliver, save

So no those who come to Christ and are in him will not face the wrath of during the tribulation. He will save them from that but they will die at the hands of the evil one. However, they will face tribulation from God as I believe that there are some who will never come to Christ unless such a rock and a hard place happens as that is the extent they must go to to surrender.

Much more but for those delivered such as Lot, what we would call the pretrib it is Passover. That is what the pretrib rapture truly is, Passover as the wrath falls.

I don't know why exactly but God has set a precedent of eating with his before his wrath falls. Moses and Israel in Egypt. Abraham with God before Sodom. Lot with the angels before that destruction. Christ before his death, before he faced the wrath of God for us.

Luke22, 15And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

then in the next verse 16 he says, For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

We have been taught it means Christ won't eat anymore until we all do. That is not it, he says I will not anymore eat thereof. The thereof he is speaking about and what it points to is Passover. Which he says he will eat it again when it is fulfilled in the kingdom.

So the pretrib in part is Passover in the kingdom that meal before the wrath falls.

I have to get for today have run out of free time. If interested I can show in the old and new testaments this is what it is. I have to get but if interested I can make some time in the next days to show so in the old and new.

You're conflating the wrath of Satan and the wrath of God, one specifically targets God's people, the other specifically targets Satan's worshippers.

Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. hen many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. (Matt. 24:9-12)

dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Rev. 12:17)

 

[Lovette]

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I'm in agreement Passover is the time to be watchful

Passover was already fulfilled by Lord Jesus on the cross, what we should be watchful for is the feast of trumpets.

 

[Lovette]

Not only does postrib position lack a single verse, but it is readily proven impossible.

Do you do ANY investigation?

Do you? All you've got is ad hominem, that's a clear sign of desperatuin as you have no legitimate biblical argument. You're whom Paul warned about in the passage below with your "left behind" false doctrine.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (2 Thess. 2:1-4)

 

[faithlife]

Do you? All you've got is ad hominem, that's a clear sign of desperatuin as you have no legitimate biblical argument. You're whom Paul warned about in the passage below with your "left behind" false doctrine.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (2 Thess. 2:1-4)

So do you think the Body of Christ will be here for the wrath/punishment/GT of God along with the wicked?

 

[Lovette]

So do you think the Body of Christ will be here for the wrath/punishment/GT of God along with the wicked?

You're asking a loaded/accusatory question. Read these below and tell me who are these saints in your opinion, and whether they're under "wrath/punishment/GT of God" or not.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” (Rev. 6:9)

Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these (the great multitude) arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Rev. 7:13-14)

And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Rev. 12:17)

It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. (Rev. 13:7)

He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. (Rev. 13:15)

 

[Lovette]

So do you think the Body of Christ will be here for the wrath/punishment/GT of God along with the wicked?

You know, you guys have been preaching that there's no mentioned of "church" since Rev. 4, that seems like blatant falsehood, because not only are God's people mentioned multiple times in various ways, even in Rev. 2 there is a church under brutal persecution, aren't they not the Body of Christ? God's wrath is reserved for "those who dwell on the earth" who worship the Beast and take his mark, not his own people.

 

[Edward429451]

Different people, different answers..


🕊

No sandwich? Can you even make a good sandwich?

 

[Edward429451]

How do we know that the rapture and 2nd coming are two different events?

The timing:

The Rapture and the Second Coming consist of different components that occur sequentially. There are differences in the order of events that take place. During the Rapture of the Church, believers will receive glorified bodies during His call, and then the Rapture occurs.

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

During the Rapture, the dead in Christ will rise first, followed by the living believers who are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. In contrast, during the Second Coming, the sequence is reversed. First, the Lord Jesus returns to Earth, and then the resurrection of the dead occurs. It is possible that the resurrection of the dead takes place hours or even days later; it does not happen instantly upon His return.

"Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He (Jesus) who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war." (Revelation 19:11)

"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:4)

Revelation 20:4 can only refer to the dead in Christ who died during the Great Tribulation. This conclusion is drawn from the fact that it is stated in the text and also because the order of events differs from the Rapture.

Another difference in timing is that the Rapture occurs before the Great Tribulation, while the Second Coming takes place after the Great Tribulation. The following verses show that the Rapture takes place before the Great Tribulation.

"And to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come." (1 Thessalonians 1:10)

"Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." (Revelation 3:10)

The Rapture occurs before the Great Tribulation, the outpour of God’s wrath, and the hour of trial, while the Second Coming takes place after the Great Tribulation.

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days (...) the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." (Matthew 24:29-30)

 

[Lovette]

How do we know that the rapture and 2nd coming are two different events?

The timing:

The Rapture and the Second Coming consist of different components that occur sequentially. There are differences in the order of events that take place. During the Rapture of the Church, believers will receive glorified bodies during His call, and then the Rapture occurs.

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

During the Rapture, the dead in Christ will rise first, followed by the living believers who are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. In contrast, during the Second Coming, the sequence is reversed. First, the Lord Jesus returns to Earth, and then the resurrection of the dead occurs. It is possible that the resurrection of the dead takes place hours or even days later; it does not happen instantly upon His return.

"Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He (Jesus) who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war." (Revelation 19:11)

"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:4)

Revelation 20:4 can only refer to the dead in Christ who died during the Great Tribulation. This conclusion is drawn from the fact that it is stated in the text and also because the order of events differs from the Rapture.

Another difference in timing is that the Rapture occurs before the Great Tribulation, while the Second Coming takes place after the Great Tribulation. The following verses show that the Rapture takes place before the Great Tribulation.

"And to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come." (1 Thessalonians 1:10)

"Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." (Revelation 3:10)

The Rapture occurs before the Great Tribulation, the outpour of God’s wrath, and the hour of trial, while the Second Coming takes place after the Great Tribulation.

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days (...) the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." (Matthew 24:29-30)

How do we know they are post-trib? Neither you or anybody can prove a "zeroth" pre-trib mass, permanent resurrection, before the FIRST resurrection in Rev. 20:5, because there is none.

 

[Edward429451]

How do we know they are post-trib? Neither you or anybody can prove a "zeroth" pre-trib mass, permanent resurrection, before the FIRST resurrection in Rev. 20:5, because there is none.

I hung in there at the study? I could explain it and walk (someone) through it, but I do not believe that I could explain it to you (or the 2ndtry girl) because of your attitudes and resistance to dialogue for you two seek monologue. And you are too exasperating to make further attempts. Sorry.

Those with ears to hear and eyes to see understand the berean type dedication it takes to unlock such mysteries.

1 Corinthians 15:51
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,.../KJV

 

[Edward429451]

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I'm in agreement Passover is the time to be watchful

So everyone expects the Lord to come on Passover or Feast f Trumpets?

But didn't Jesus say, I will come when you least expect it?

Matthew 24:44
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh..../KJV

44 You also must be ready all the time, for the Son of Man will come when least expected..../NLT

So I'm guessing that you are probably not correct about that.

 

[Psalm1]

I claimed nothing, Lord Jesus did. It is you who rejected His word, that those who still "eat, drink and get merry" are "taken", not me. You're deceiving by omission, in this case, deceiving with Matt. 24:40-41 by omitting Matt. 24:38-39.

Amen
The opposite setting.
Yes don't change it.
At the same time change your timing to agree with normal life at the rapture.

 

[Psalm1]

You really do not realize that in Rev. 14:14 "the One sat on the cloud" remained sitting on the cloud, not "coming" until Rev. 19?

Ok
Yes
Sorry, I was thinking you are postribber rapture.
Yes, Rev 14:14 is a gathering AFTER 1 thes 4.
Preteib rapture, BEFORE THE GATHERING of rev 14:14.

Now apply your firstfruit reference to the 144,000
Remember how firstfruits PRECEDES main harvest?
The 144,000 PRECEDE SOMETHING.
THE 144,000 PRECEDE MAIN HARVEST.
AHEM....MAIN HARVEST JEWS.

NOW YOU ARE TALKING!!!!!
YOU JUST STEPPED INTO WHY REV 14 DECISIVELY DESTROYS COMPLETELY POSTRIB RAPTURE.

 

[Psalm1]

Do you? All you've got is ad hominem, that's a clear sign of desperatuin as you have no legitimate biblical argument. You're whom Paul warned about in the passage below with your "left behind" false doctrine.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (2 Thess. 2:1-4)

I am not the one that did not know Jesus is the firstfruits of the resurrection

 

[Psalm1]

You're the one who's been hammering me with Matt. 24:40-41, you explain it to me. It's obvious to everyone who "them" that are "taken" in Matt. 24:38-39 are, except you.

So you are telling me half the world is taken before the flood?

Or as you insist, right at the start of the trib?
So, in your dot connections, you are making it alighn with a postrib rapture?

What is the flood then?
I thought you guys are saying the flood is the trib?

Are you telling me now that the flood is not the trib?
Because your doctrine has only the righteous going through the flood?

You make no sense at all.

 

[Omegatime]

So everyone expects the Lord to come on Passover or Feast f Trumpets?

But didn't Jesus say, I will come when you least expect it?

Matthew 24:44
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh..../KJV

44 You also must be ready all the time, for the Son of Man will come when least expected..../NLT

So I'm guessing that you are probably not correct about that.

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There are several reasons why Passover is important.

In Exodus 12: 42 It was a night of watching by the Lord, to bring them out of the land of Egypt; so this same night is a night of watching kept to the Lord by all the people of Israel throughout their generations. This day was Passover

A previous resurrection on Passover weekend doesn't deny a second coming at same time

Night the Lord was arrested he kept coming back waking up his disciples---yes, night of Passover

 

[Psalm1]

Your ignorance of the distinction between the SHEAF of firstfruits and the HARVEST of firstfruits is embarrassing. I posted biblical definition of the two, you've got nothing but a temper tantrum.

So now, you have proved what?
Remember your insistence that firstfruits was the 144,000 ?
Then you got schooled on WHO THE FIRSTFRUIST OF THE RESURRECTION IS?

So now you are throwing a tantrum instead of actually connecting firstfruits to main harvest.?

What does your "sheaf component" do to erase the simple fact that the Bible says Jesus is the firstfruits?

No tantrum please.
Just stay on track.