Anything given to you can be lost. Its lost does not negate its original worth or existence.
Loss of salvation???
- Thread starter gratefuloneson
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Indeed. So...those who actually hear His voice. Evidently, there must be some reality to hearing His voice.
Show me in scripture where someone failed to heed those warnings. You can't.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
It actually is eternal, IF you hold onto that hope!
Ik of so many people who were saved, but they lost faith.
“But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.”
Hebrews 11:6 NKJV
There is NO getting around this!
So, the word eternal doesn't mean eternal. You continue to change the plain meanings of words to suit your doctrine.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. -- John 10:27-28 ESV.
It's clear here that eternal life is granted before the end of physical life. If it can then be lost, it's not eternal.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. -- 1 John 2:19 ESV
If they "lost faith", they never had it.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
It’s clear you’re ignoring the warnings! Yes, eternal means eternal! There is an eternal hell, too.
There is nothing in Scripture that defends OSAS. You pick and choose verses while ignoring the rest!
T
TruthDefender
Guest
I'm not ignoring anything. I heed those warnings. As do all who belong to Jesus.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
The problem I see is that none of the perfect tense verses that have been in question are reliant on our believing, they all speak of God's actions which is what makes them permanent. In respect to the past action, our believing or lack of it, is irrelevant.
Eph.2:8 salvation will always be a gift by grace through faith. God has determined that. Our believing can receive that gift but we did not determine that action.
Jn.5:24 again, it is God who performs the action of the giving.
I think there was a third verse in question but can't remember off the top of my head now, either way our believing is irrelevant to the truth of the statements. Whether people believe or not they remain true in every future present moment. They will never be not true even if people don't believe.
They do not prove in and of themself OSAS or non-OSAS.
What they can say to us, if we meet the criteria, our salvation is secure. If we do not, then those verses are simply not applicable and irrelevant.
What I find sad, are those who look at those verses and see they meet the criteria and yet, are still insecure about their salvation.
Because they are humble enough to know that they (like all of us) could be wrong.
Lord, Lord did we not.
But not you...of course.
Seems you are only teaching against well established trusted sources who can not confront you.
Not a good place for us to be.
Can you teach us some things about eternal security that are edifying?
That might help.
It's hearing with understanding. It isn't necessarily audible, but can be. It is certainly more than simply audible hearing.
Have you ever heard the voice of Jesus? If so, in what way or ways?
The word hope in the Greek is elpis.
It means confidence.
You don't have that.
How could anyone have hope if they are left thinking they can still be wrong.
Therefore, some of us (by grace) will know that they are correct about what matters.
For, God wants it that way.
In the Bible, elpis (Greek: ἐλπίς) defines biblical hope not as wishful thinking, but as a confident, joyful expectation of good
based on God’s faithful character. Unlike modern, uncertain hope, elpis is an anchor for the soul—a firm conviction and guarantee
that God will fulfill His promises.
If 'doubt' remains, it indicates that the Spirit still needs to finish doing His good work in you!To do that... God provides good teachers.
The Spirit must lead us to the good teachers.
The key concern for so many, for me certainly, is to live a pure life.
1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
We purify ourselves out of our confidence that His work will be completed in us.
Much love!
Well-established trusted sources that you will not identify for us or link us to?
For what reason, pray tell?
This is not a good place to be.
It's poor practice and you shouldn't be posting such things as being authoritative if you're not willing to identify them. It's common practice to provide reference to such things and allow others to provide referenced counters to them.
Why don't you edify us by looking at the verses I provided to @Kroogz and pointed you to, and explaining how they harmonize or what you see as incorrect, or whatever you'd like to say, but at least give it a shot?
I'm happy to interact with you on this even after your poor attempt to discredit my views through some pseudo-psychoalysis as if you're able to judge such things.
I know your unlinked authority was wrong, just as you are wrong for not identifying it.
It's not up to me to locate anything you draw from even if I might guess where it may have come from.
You're obviously sensitive re: it, so I won't press anymore. You can PM me if you'd like to discuss such things privately for whatever your reasons. But, please, let's not play these games. I'll try to continue the practice of identifying any reference I may use. I'd appreciate the same respect.